Irina creates a great new video dedicated to 30 JTF members

[amit85]

3000 Brits were killed by the V2. Another 6000 were killed by the V1.

Thats less than 2 killed per ballistic missile. Today with warning systems number of killed will drastically decrease. So if Hezbollah fires 10 Zelzals will be ten killed or so.

Red Haifa is not the Galilee.

Haifa was attacked by rockets.

The Galilee was largely empted out of Jews (a fulfilment of the Mishnaic prophecy that "before Ben David comes.....the Galilee will be destroyed" - Sotah 49?!).

Galilee was not empted and surely not destroyed.

The Galilee Arabs stayed, many cheering on the Hizbollah rockets, just as they cheered on Saddam's SCUDs in 1991, even if it meant their own deaths!

There were many who left too. Arabs are simply more poor and they dont have relatives in other places.

Jews were brave once.

Jews were brave uncounted times. Otherwise there would not be any Jews. They would convert to Christianity and Islam like many other nations did. Jews were brave otherwise they would not establish and defend Israel.

[wonga66]

300,000-500,000 Israelis were displaced in the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
I witnessed the Eastern Galilee being largely empty of human Jewish life.

Most of Hizbollah's rockets were 5kg "firecracker' katyushas, were still plenty loud enough. The crump of 30kg Fajrs up to 400kg Zelzals landing in Gush Dan will be a different ball game. It needs a few landing in Bnei Brak to shake the Haredim up. But the innured chilloni Israelis will only get the message when they land on Shenkin and Ramat Aviv Gimel! Only then the Israelis might possibly give a response worthy of the name!

"BYE BYE ISRAEL

by Barry Chamish

The lessons of the 2006 war were well learned in the war councils of Teheran, Damascus and Cairo. Egypt and Iran entered a missile race to see who could supply more rockets to Israel's enemies.  Within barely a year of the war, over 20,000 new short and medium range missiles were aimed at Israel. When Syria entered the war on the third day, Israel was buried alive.

Day One - In a massive coordinated attack, some 6,000 missiles hit the Tel Aviv area, knocking out much of the military's operating and intelligence networks. Hundreds die in the rubble. The survivors are in panic. The Israeli government has left the country before the airport is overwhelmed first by terrified civilians, then by the enemy. 

Day Two - Another 6,000 missiles are shot throughout the country, knocking out electricity and isolating army units into pockets, defeatable by anti-tank missiles. They are first attacked by the Palestinians and their missiles, then Israeli Arabs, then Arabs from everywhere.

Day Three - Syria enters the war and fires 10,000 rockets on its first day. Israel is now in sheer chaos; it has all broken down. In East Jerusalem, 140,000 Arabs march to the Jewish West. They have burned the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and are now streaming out from every gate. Many Jews run to the forests, but they'll die of thirst if they manage to evade capture and fatal abuse. The Western Wall is destroyed with its rabbis and worshipers forced to watch. They are led away in tears. None is ever seen again. With the enemy coordinated and Israel without a chain of command, the nation has already disappeared. The enemy first takes over isolated settlements, breaking their defenses and their wills. The men are hunted down. They are gathered together to watch their wives and children raped. Anyone who dares turn his eyes away is shot, if he's lucky, fatally. Those who survive will soon dangle from the nearest meat hooks or other useful slow death apparati.   
   
Day Four - Word is out in Damascus, Cairo, Amman, and throughout the Middle East, that Israel is for the taking. The Zionist leaders were ready for flight and were gone. The people were left behind to be slaughtered. Syrian soldiers were now flushing "proud" Jewish soldiers out of the isolated IDF camps. Many of these soldiers were not going to fight to the end. They left the camps with their hands in the air, totally defeated. In the cities and towns, Israelis walked down shattered streets, looking for safety. There was none. It was better to be old and ugly and maybe get shot. For the attractive ladies dressed in top brands, death never came quickly enough. The lovely ladies of Judaism were mass raped, left to consider their fate in the ruins of their homes and then, maybe, shot only once through the head.   

Day Five - America calls for a UN ceasefire, but it is too late. The men in their Peugeots are rushing to Israel for the treasure or the scraps; maybe they'll have to settle for a feeble old man. If nothing else, he would know the humiliation of being sodomized. The Jews had sat back, ignored reality and let their government sell out the nation's resources and defenses. They couldn't see that the Jews had been infiltrated and their leaders were betraying them to death. And they won't see it next time, when the third Holocaust begins."

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

So in response to logic and factual answers by Amit, you cut and paste a long tome by chamish (which he dreamt up in his fantasies) hoping that we'll all be convinced against our better judgement.... This is called throwing the ____ against the wall and hoping something sticks....

[wonga66]

Your misplaced confidence that the next round with Hizbollah will be more, if not less of the same is stunning! http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1152777.html

In every war that Israel fights there's always nasty surprises, shocks, failures
and incompetenece, sent by Hashem to shake the Jew up.

There is nothing Hashem dislikes more than over-confident, smug, self-satisfied Israelis who boast that "it is my strength and my prowess that has wrought me these victories" (Shmos 9).

[amit85]

300,000-500,000 Israelis were displaced in the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
I witnessed the Eastern Galilee being largely empty of human Jewish life.

People were not walking in streets but most did not left.

Most of Hizbollah's rockets were 5kg "firecracker' katyushas, were still plenty loud enough. The crump of 30kg Fajrs up to 400kg Zelzals landing in Gush Dan will be a different ball game.

Hezbollah did not fire any "Katyushas". They fired Grad missiles with 22 kg warheads.

Day One - In a massive coordinated attack, some 6,000 missiles hit the Tel Aviv area, knocking out much of the military's operating and intelligence networks. Hundreds die in the rubble. The survivors are in panic. The Israeli government has left the country before the airport is overwhelmed first by terrified civilians, then by the enemy. 

1) Hezbollah cant fire 6000 missiles in one day, not even close. If they try very very hard thay can fire 600 short range missiles and dozen of long range.
2) Hezbollah rokets dont have enough accuracy to damange infrastructures, especialy military networks.

Day Two - Another 6,000 missiles are shot throughout the country, knocking out electricity and isolating army units into pockets, defeatable by anti-tank missiles. They are first attacked by the Palestinians and their missiles, then Israeli Arabs, then Arabs from everywhere.

1) They wont be able to fire 6000 missiles, not even 600.
2) During the Yom Kippur war, Israeli forces in Deversour fought under barrage of 2000 artillery pieces, tens of thousands of shells a day. Rockets are much less accurate than artillery shells and hardly can cause much damage to army.

Day Three - Syria enters the war and fires 10,000 rockets on its first day. Israel is now in sheer chaos; it has all broken down. In East Jerusalem, 140,000 Arabs march to the Jewish West. They have burned the Jewish Quarter of the Old City and are now streaming out from every gate. Many Jews run to the forests, but they'll die of thirst if they manage to evade capture and fatal abuse. The Western Wall is destroyed with its rabbis and worshipers forced to watch. They are led away in tears. None is ever seen again. With the enemy coordinated and Israel without a chain of command, the nation has already disappeared. The enemy first takes over isolated settlements, breaking their defenses and their wills. The men are hunted down. They are gathered together to watch their wives and children raped. Anyone who dares turn his eyes away is shot, if he's lucky, fatally. Those who survive will soon dangle from the nearest meat hooks or other useful slow death apparati.   

There is no any chaos in Israel. IDF is fully mobilized. 6-7 divisions are preparing or already entering Lebanon. 2-3 divisions are on alert on Golan. 1 division near Gaza, 1 division + Kfir Brigade + Magav in Yosh. IAF destroyed ports and bridges in Lebanon, leveling Dahya, bombing South and Baalbek.

I doubt looking at leveled Dahya Assad will decide to enter the war. But if he enters he cant do much. His airforce almost does not exist. Tanks are old and rusty and cant do anything against Israeli Merkavas. His rockets are not accurate and cant cause much harm to the army. If he fires at towns then It will give Israel free hand to level all objects in Syria.
   

Day Four - Word is out in Damascus, Cairo, Amman, and throughout the Middle East, that Israel is for the taking. The Zionist leaders were ready for flight and were gone. The people were left behind to be slaughtered. Syrian soldiers were now flushing "proud" Jewish soldiers out of the isolated IDF camps. Many of these soldiers were not going to fight to the end. They left the camps with their hands in the air, totally defeated. In the cities and towns, Israelis walked down shattered streets, looking for safety. There was none. It was better to be old and ugly and maybe get shot. For the attractive ladies dressed in top brands, death never came quickly enough. The lovely ladies of Judaism were mass raped, left to consider their fate in the ruins of their homes and then, maybe, shot only once through the head.   

Day four. IDF captures 20 km strip in Lebanon, continues massive bombings. Arabs cry about Israeli cruelty and beg for cease fire.

[wonga66]

Hezbollah did not fire any "Katyushas". They fired Grad missiles with 22 kg warheads.

22kg warhead (= 48 lbs) is x4 too high for most of the rockets fired in 2006:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20060818.aspx
"Most of the rockets Hizbollah had, perhaps 80 percent or more, were a World War II Russian design. This 122mm rocket had a range of 20 kilometers and a 13 pound (= 5.9kg) warhead. There were also a number of longer range 122mm rockets, in this case 30 kilometers. Apparently, this model had the same 13 pound warhead, and achieved its increased range by being longer and heavier (standard 122mm rockets are nine feet long and weigh 150 pounds)."

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Your misplaced confidence that the next round with Hizbollah will be more, if not less of the same is stunning! http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1152777.html

In every war that Israel fights there's always nasty surprises, shocks, failures
and incompetenece, sent by Hashem to shake the Jew up.

There is nothing Hashem dislikes more than over-confident, smug, self-satisfied Israelis who boast that "it is my strength and my prowess that has wrought me these victories" (Shmos 9).

You always claim to know what Hashem likes and dislikes, what He will do and what He will not do.  Give me a break from this rubbish.      I am also curious to know what the phrase "more, if not less" means.  Quite funny.

No one should be arrogant, but no one should be a cowering wimpering fearful little jewboy like the way you are acting either.   We are only supposed to fear Hashem.   Nothing and no one else. 

[wonga66]

When Hashem uses the goy as a chastisement tool on the Jew, we are meant to fear the goy too: "Assyria is the rod of My anger" (Yeshaya 10), "Nebuchadnezzar is My servant!"(Yirmiya 43).

[amit85]

Hezbollah did not fire any "Katyushas". They fired Grad missiles with 22 kg warheads.

22kg warhead (= 48 lbs) is x4 too high for most of the rockets fired in 2006:

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20060818.aspx
"Most of the rockets Hizbollah had, perhaps 80 percent or more, were a World War II Russian design. This 122mm rocket had a range of 20 kilometers and a 13 pound (= 5.9kg) warhead. There were also a number of longer range 122mm rockets, in this case 30 kilometers. Apparently, this model had the same 13 pound warhead, and achieved its increased range by being longer and heavier (standard 122mm rockets are nine feet long and weigh 150 pounds)."

Your link is wrong. There were not any 122-mm in WW2. In WW2 they used 82, 132 and 300-mmm Katyushas.
122-mm is Grad. Grad was first introduced in 1963 and has 18-24 kg warhead, depending on model.

[wonga66]

Do those tubes look like they're for a rocket with a 22kg warhead?!

I heard these 13lb warheads go off and the damage they did: no way were they 48lbs of explosive. On Haifa & Natzeret Hizbollah launched heavier stuff, but the majority of their rockets fired, those on Kiryat Shmona, Safed, Rosh Pina etc, were 13 pounders.

This is typical of the damage caused by the small 13 lb warhead




And this typical of the considerably greater damage wrought by their bigger warheads on Haifa



and from Hamas on Ashkelon




Of course anything in the Zilzal/SS21/Scud 400kg-1000kg range, and you can say goodbye to the whole bloody block!

[amit85]

Grad is only 122 mm (4.8 inch) in diameter. This is how Grad missile looks:



Depending on model, Grad has 18.4 kg (9M22U) to 25 kg (9M522) warhead.

And this typical of the considerably greater damage wrought by their bigger warheads on Haifa

Haifa was attacked by Fajar-3 and Raad 220-240 mm missiles with 85-100 kg warheads.

No missiles had 13 lb warhead.

[wonga66]

No missiles had 13 lb warhead.

This is incorrect.


'Katyusha' is not a specific missile, but rather a vast generic class of rockets. They have warheads varying from 1lb up to 100lb+, including Gaza backshop-made Qassams. 

Most that fell on the Eastern Galilee had 13lb warheads
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20060818.aspx
and as you can check from Israeli reports at the time.

Such as this example with a 'small' 13lb (6kg) warhead [not 40lb - c20kg!]



A 'Grad' in modern parlance refers to a specific factory made larger rocket, c9' long with a c40lb warhead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21

Though as can be seen from the chart of "Projectiles" at the end, the Romanians did make a c6' version with a c13lb warhead.

[amit85]

This is incorrect.

This is correct. Hezbollah used 3 types of missiles:

122-mm Grad
220-240 mm Raad and Fajar 3
302 mm Khaibar-1

all of them have 40 lb and larger warheads.

'Katyusha' is not a specific missile, but rather a vast generic class of rockets. They have warheads varying from 1lb up to 100lb+, including Gaza backshop-made Qassams. 

No. Katyusha is name of WW2 Soviet rockets. When other rockets are called Katyushas thats simply lame journalism.

Most that fell on the Eastern Galilee had 13lb warheads

I tell u zillionth time. Rockets that hit Eastern Galilee were 122-mm, and 122-mm have 40 lb warheads.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20060818.aspx

Thats perfect example of lame journalism. Hezbollah did not fire any ww2 era rockets.

Such as this example with a 'small' 13lb (6kg) warhead [not 40lb - c20kg!]

Missile on pic is Grad-P. It's a regular Grad missile with 40 lb warhead just with one tube. You can google about Grad-P.

A 'Grad' in modern parlance refers to a specific factory made larger rocket, c9' long with a c40lb warhead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21

All Grads used by Hezbollah are factory made with 40lb warheads.

Though as can be seen from the chart of "Projectiles" at the end, the Romanians did make a c6' version with a c13lb warhead.

Hezbollah uses Chinese and USSR made Grads.

[amit85]

From Israeli report:

7.  The types of rockets and fragments used by Hezbollah during the war were:
a.  Rockets containing ball bearings
  1) 220 mm rockets made in Syria carrying ball bearings 6
mm (1/4”)  in diameter.
  2) 122 mm rockets made in China carrying ball bearings 6
mm in diameter (which Hezbollah received from Iran and Syria).
  3) 122 mm rockets made in China carrying anti-tank/anti-
personnel bomblets, which in addition to the shell casing carry ball
bearings 3.5 mm (about 1/8”) in diameter (which Hezbollah received
from Iran and Syria).
b.  Rockets containing square-shaped fragments: 302 mm rockets made
in Syria containing 16 mm (about 2/3”) square-shaped fragments.
c.  Rockets with  high-explosive warheads: 122 mm rockets made in
Russia whose shell casing is made of grooved steel.
d.  High explosive frag warheads:
  1) 240 mm Iranian Falaq-1 rockets
  2) 240 mm Iranian Fajr-3 rockets 

[wonga66]

Hizbollah also has non-Grad rockets smaller than 122mm, and Grads with warheads less than 22kg, y'now!



Are you saying that this
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3796443,00.html
and this
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20060818.aspx
and their references to Hizbollah 107mm rockets and rockets with 13lb warheads
are wrong?

Does this damage caused by a 6kg (13lb) warhead



look the same to you as this caused by a 22kg warhead?!




And as you can see here, 122mm Grads are made with warheads from 6kg up to 25kg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad

[amit85]

Are you saying that this
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3796443,00.html
and this
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htart/articles/20060818.aspx
and their references to Hizbollah 107mm rockets and rockets with 13lb warheads
are wrong?

Yep they are wrong.

20.  During the second Lebanon war Hezbollah fired close to 4,000 rockets of 6 various types into Israeli territory.  The bomb squads of the Israeli Police Department identified 1,381 rocket and mortar hits of the 4,000, distributed as follows:
 
a.  859 122 mm HE-frag rockets.
b.  228 122 mm expanded range rockets.
c.  113 122 mm cluster bomb rockets
d.  86 220 mm rockets.
e.  30 302 mm rockets.
f.  Six 240 mm rockets (Fajr-3).
g.  Five 240 mm rockets (Falaq)
h.  One 107 mm rocket manufactured by North Korea.
i.  33 unidentifiable rockets (which were observed by security forces but fell
in inaccessible sites).
j.  20 81 mm, 120 mm and 160 mm high explosive shells. 

As u can see, out of 1,381 identified rockets 859+228+113= 1200 were 122-mm rockets and only one 107-mm.

And as you can see here, 122mm Grads are made with warheads from 6kg up to 25kg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad

Only Romanian versions have 6 kg. But Hezbollah used Chinese and Russian.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

When Hashem uses the goy as a chastisement tool on the Jew, we are meant to fear the goy too: "Assyria is the rod of My anger" (Yeshaya 10), "Nebuchadnezzar is My servant!"(Yirmiya 43).

Where does it say to fear goyim?!    Not what you quoted.

[wonga66]

Give us that link. Nowhere does it refer to the warhead weights.

122mm does not necessarily mean 22kg warheads. Hizbollah rockets came via Iran, who have their own rocket & explosive industry and make their own modifications, including reducing the warhead to extend the range.

I heard the explosions and saw the damage in the Galillee, & know the difference twixt 6kg and 22kg going off!

Surely you know that a 6kg warhead will damage a room.

A 22kg warhead can destroy a whole appartment.

You say you were in Haifa. You saw the damage 50kg warhead Fajrs did on Haifa, which could total a cottage and bring down a whole chunk of a building?

Do these look to you like the result of 6kg, 22kg or 50kg explosions?!

[amit85]

Give us that link. Nowhere does it refer to the warhead weights.

You provided a link by yourself. Standard Grad missiles have 40 lb warheads. Only Romanian versions have less.

A 22kg warhead can destroy a whole appartment.

Do these look to you like the result of 6kg, 22kg or 50kg explosions?!

22 kg warhead does not mean 22 kg of explosives. Much less. Prolly thats source of your mistake, u mix up warhead weight with weight of explosives.

You say you were in Haifa. You saw the damage 50kg warhead Fajrs did on Haifa, which could total a cottage and bring down a whole chunk of a building?

Base 122-mm 9M22U rocket has 18.4 kg warhead and 6.4 kg of explosives.
Base 220-mm 9N128F has 100 kg warhead and 51.7 kg of explosives.

I.e. 220-mm carries almost 10 times more explosives!

And not always damage was large. Here example of post in Haifa hit by 220 or 240-mm rocket:

[wonga66]

What is the link to your 'Israeli report'?

From Israeli report:

7.  The types of rockets and fragments used by Hezbollah during the war were:
a.  Rockets containing ball bearings
  1) 220 mm rockets made in Syria carrying ball bearings 6
mm (1/4”)  in diameter.
  2) 122 mm rockets made in China carrying ball bearings 6
mm in diameter (which Hezbollah received from Iran and Syria).
  3) 122 mm rockets made in China carrying anti-tank/anti-
personnel bomblets, which in addition to the shell casing carry ball
bearings 3.5 mm (about 1/8”) in diameter (which Hezbollah received
from Iran and Syria).
b.  Rockets containing square-shaped fragments: 302 mm rockets made
in Syria containing 16 mm (about 2/3”) square-shaped fragments.
c.  Rockets with  high-explosive warheads: 122 mm rockets made in
Russia whose shell casing is made of grooved steel.
d.  High explosive frag warheads:
  1) 240 mm Iranian Falaq-1 rockets
  2) 240 mm Iranian Fajr-3 rockets 

[amit85]

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/arabs/hiz/part3.pdf

[wonga66]

So when Ynet News
as eg here http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3251453,00.html
and Strategypage are talking about a "13lb warhead" and "six kilograms of explosive", you mean they are really referring to "a 22kg warhead containing 13lb of explosive (6kg)"?!

Apart from the manufacturers, I bet the only ones who can give a authoritative answer as to the exact type and make, the weight of warhead and the weight of explosive contained therein in the bulk of the smallest rockets fired by Hizbollah in 2006, is Janes of London. I'm gonna send them an email.

As usual, when it comes to technicalities, the Israelis are the last to get it right! I wouldn't put too much truck in Erlich's article, especially that it was written with "IDF assistance"!

[wonga66]

If Hizbollah start pummeling Ben Gurion airport http://www.debka.com/article/8619/ it most definitely won't be "more of the same"! In the unlikely event that Barak is serious, things could go End Time within minutes!

[amit85]

So when Ynet News
as eg here http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3251453,00.html
and Strategypage are talking about a "13lb warhead" and "six kilograms of explosive", you mean they are really referring to "a 22kg warhead containing 13lb of explosive (6kg)"?!

Maybe. Anyhow warhead weight =! weight of explosive. Weight of explosive is usualy 2-3 times lower.

Apart from the manufacturers, I bet the only ones who can give a authoritative answer as to the exact type and make, the weight of warhead and the weight of explosive contained therein in the bulk of the smallest rockets fired by Hizbollah in 2006, is Janes of London. I'm gonna send them an email

Data on Grad missiles is well known. Janes makes lots of mistakes as well. Of example they still count T-55 and Centurions in inventory of IDF, although they were phased out 15-20 years ago.

[wonga66]

"Jane's Ammunition Handbook" gives the total warhead as 18.3kg, and the explosive in it as 6.4kg.