No Orthodox Shuls within 100 miles, what should I do?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                              בס"ד

I suggest everyone attempt to observe Torah as best as they can. All Jews can make Teshuva, hopefully sooner than later. I do not think Conservatives are evil. If a person consciously decides that they don't want to observe the mitzvot then this is wrong, and it should be rebuked. But many people are brought up in the system and they don't know better. What those who are religious can do is extend a hand out to the community, this is called Kiruv and if not for Kiruv I probrobly would not find myself at the level of observance I am at. A wonderful Orthodox Rabbi was doing outreach in my liberal/progressive synagogue {the only one within walking distance of my house} and with Hashems blessing I am now on the proper derech.

I'm attacking the idea [the Conservative/Reformic religions] and not all Conservatives/Reforms because most are just misguided Tinokot She'Nishbu that we shall rebuke and get closer to Torah.

[muman613]

                                              בס"ד

I suggest everyone attempt to observe Torah as best as they can. All Jews can make Teshuva, hopefully sooner than later. I do not think Conservatives are evil. If a person consciously decides that they don't want to observe the mitzvot then this is wrong, and it should be rebuked. But many people are brought up in the system and they don't know better. What those who are religious can do is extend a hand out to the community, this is called Kiruv and if not for Kiruv I probrobly would not find myself at the level of observance I am at. A wonderful Orthodox Rabbi was doing outreach in my liberal/progressive synagogue {the only one within walking distance of my house} and with Hashems blessing I am now on the proper derech.

I'm attacking the idea [the Conservative/Reformic religions] and not all Conservatives/Reforms because most are just misguided Tinokot She'Nishbu that we shall rebuke and get closer to Torah.

If we can rebuke in a way which will bring the people closer and not push them away. This is the fine line that a righteous Jew must walk when attempting to bring our brothers and sisters to closeness with Hashem.

Let us concentrate on bringing together instead of dividing our people. Is it not the season of redemption? I believe Jewish unity is essential in order for us to see the coming of Moshiach. We should not stand for evil and aveiras, but we should not intimidate and threaten Jews who are on a somewhat divergent path {those following splinter ideologies in Judaism}.

[muman613]

Let us review a little about rebuke:
http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter6-633b.html

The 48 Ways: 33(b)
Does Israel Know Better? Part II
Chapter 6, Mishna 6

By Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld

"Torah is greater than priesthood and kingship, for kingship is acquired with 30 qualities, priesthood is acquired with 24, whereas the Torah is acquired with 48 ways. These are: ... (33) loving rebuke..."

Last week we began examining the Torah obligation to rebuke one's fellow. As we discussed, as fashionable as it is today to grant everyone and everything legitimacy -- that everyone is entitled to his own beliefs however ludicrous, and that everyone may live however he pleases and no one else has any right to butt in -- an absolute religion simply cannot accept this. Perhaps the most fundamental axiom of Judaism -- even before we discuss *what* it preaches -- is that there *are* absolutes in this world. There are absolute and uncontestable realities in the universe which are not up to each individual to decide and accept.

It is popular nowadays to relate to religion -- and really to G-d for that matter -- only to the extent that makes sense to us. If a particular commandment is meaningful and relevant, I will observe it. Otherwise, I get nothing from it and it is a waste of time.

I personally am always a little taken aback when I meet people who approach religion with such a mindset. I guess one has to appreciate that true seekers will constantly look to find meaning in religion. Yet in a way the premise of such people is flawed. We cannot be the arbiters of G-d's existence and wisdom in this world. If He does exist (and we were certainly witness to that at Mount Sinai), His existence is not dependent upon our ability to understand Him or appreciate His mitzvos (commandments). Yes, to the extent we understand, G-d's mitzvos, if observed properly, are meaningful and uplifting to an extreme. Yet our acceptance of them simply cannot ride upon our own limited comprehension. To state it bluntly, it would be arrogant beyond words to make acceptance of the commands of the Creator dependent upon their understandability to the very creatures He created. I mean, who stands and judges who?

And so, ours is a religion which is built upon absolutes. I feel it is relevant at this point to list those very absolutes upon which Judaism is premised. Maimonides enumerates what he considers the 13 fundamentals of Judaism. Rather than providing the entire list, I present a condensed version. (Needless to say, each one deserves a class on its own.)

Maimonides' fundamentals address three basic areas. They are: (1) G-d's existence: G-d, our Creator, is one, eternal and incorporeal. (2) G-d's communication with man: the Torah and the words of the Prophets are G-d-given, absolute truth, unchanging, and eternally binding. (3) Reward and punishment: G-d knows and judges all of man's deeds, the Messiah will arrive -- bringing the entire world to recognition of G-d and to its ideal state, and the dead will be resurrected -- in preparation for G-d's final Day of Judgment and the ultimate meting out of reward and punishment.

Thus, Judaism is based upon certain principles which must be accepted unconditionally. Actually, in a way it is comforting to know there are definites in this world. The world is not such a senseless place left for man to figure out for himself. There is a clear purpose to the world, there are precise and G-d-given definitions for good and evil, and man's obligations towards his Creator are explicitly stated in the Torah. And, for those who fail to live up to this knowledge, there is much room for "rebuke".

Once these hurdles are accepted, we can begin to appreciate the beauty of the commandment to rebuke our fellow. As we began to discuss last week, "rebuke" is not really the correct word. That has the connotation of telling others off or putting them down -- more often for the pleasure of the rebuker than the benefit of the rebuked. Here if anything quite the opposite is implied. Let us look again at Leviticus.

Leviticus 19:17 states: "You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your fellow, and you shall not bear a sin because of him" (or: "you shall not cause him to bear a sin"). The Torah begins by stating we must not hate one another. This is the starting point for the obligation to rebuke. When we see another sinning and failing in life, our natural attitude towards him might be one of condescension and even disgust. How can someone trade in spirituality and closeness to G-d for vain and empty pleasures? How shallow and shortsighted can a body be? Yet the Torah warns us against such an attitude. We must not dislike our underachieving fellow. We must feel *responsible* for him. We must consider his failing our problem as well, and we must do whatever we can to help.

The Torah thus obligates us: "You shall surely rebuke your fellow." As we pointed out, "rebuke" is not the true definition. The word "hochai'ach" more accurately means prove. We should cause our fellow to see for himself how his life can be more meaningful and rewarding. Rebuke is not for the purpose of forcing our way of life on others -- even though we happen to really know better. The world has seen far too many inquisitors, fanatics and fundamentalists who "knew" they were right and forced their beliefs upon the infidels at the point of the sword. That is not the way of the Torah. The mitzvah (obligation) to rebuke is to get the other to see for himself that his life could improve. All we do is lay the facts clearly before our fellow -- not least by living according to our principles ourselves. The actual change must be his own -- and must come from within.

But it is even deeper than this. My teacher R. Yochanan Zweig (www.talmudicu.edu) explains that the true root of the word "hochai'ach" is "ko'ach" or strength. (We may say that "hochai'ach" / "prove" is the causative of "ko'ach" / "strength" and means to give another strength.) There is nothing more empowering than receiving rebuke. We all feel a little listless and out of synch at times, like we haven't connected with our true selves and that our lives contain some degree of falsehood and emptiness. The reason is often that we have faults and shortcomings we haven't really identified. Not knowing what is wrong with us is a draining and depressing feeling -- of an unknown emptiness which saps our strength and weakens our resolve.

When an outside person -- close enough to know me well yet distant enough to be objective -- "rebukes" me, it gives me strength. He sees my faults in ways I just cannot see within myself, and he helps me come to grips with my own problems. (We could spend $200 an hour having a psychiatrist do the same for us, or we could have an untrained but true friend give us frank advice to which we listen attentively and consider sincerely.) There is nothing more invigorating than knowing what my problems are -- and knowing who I truly am. When someone does this for me I am given strength and direction -- and the energy to improve my own fate.

Many of the other details of the obligation to rebuke stem from this principle. Generally, we only rebuke others when we might actually "prove" something -- when it might really cause them to improve. Thus, the Talmud comments, "Just as there is a mitzvah to say something which will be heard, so too there is a mitzvah not to say something which will not be heard... as it is written: 'Do not rebuke a scoffer lest he hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you' (Proverbs 9:8)" (Yevamos 65b). (Occasionally, there is an obligation to speak up in protest of a public desecration of G-d's Name, even though it will not improve the situation, in order to make it clear that Judaism does not in any way condone such behavior.)

Also, the manner in which we reprove must be one conducive towards our fellow's receptiveness. The Talmud explains: "I might think one should rebuke [another] even when his face turns colors from embarrassment. The verse therefore states: 'you shall not bear a sin because of him'" (Erchin 16b). Do not admonish in a way which shames your fellow -- causing *you* to bear a sin in the process of attempting to improve your fellow. Rather, rebuke in private, at a later point in time, when the sinner is reposed and perhaps receptive to criticism.

R. Aharon Kotler (founder of the Lakewood Yeshiva in America) pointed out an alternate reading of this phrase, namely: "you shall not cause *him* to bear a sin." When we rebuke another (whether friend or child), don't make him bear the sin. Don't put him down, telling him what a failure he is, so that the sin weighs heavily upon him. Rather, raise him up above the sin. Don't tell your child "that was rotten of you to do." Say: "that was *beneath* you. I know you're someone who can do better." (Likewise, the well-known Yiddish expression: "Es past nisht far dere.") When we rebuke, we want the other to improve; towards that end we show him he is capable of better.

Finally, just to touch on one other issue from last week, is it correct, say, for the Orthodox in Israel to attempt to use whatever means at their disposal, whether political or social, to "rebuke" their fellow countrymen, somehow making Israel more "Jewish"? Based on most of what we have written, probably not. "Rebuke" means *showing* others they can improve, not imposing our better-held positions upon them. Enacting legal regulations -- and certainly wielding the threat of violence and intimidation -- are hardly fulfillments of this mitzvah and usually do little more than increase tension and resentment. To invoke a slightly worn-out cliche, one must be exceedingly careful not to get so carried away winning the battle that he dismally and utterly loses the war.

(Anyone who cares to examine the many sides to such issues is welcome to read some of Cross-Current's fascinating recent discussions regarding the recent gay march in Jerusalem. Check out www.cross-currents.com/archives/2006/11/22/burning-down-our-own-neighborhood/ and www.cross-currents.com/archives/2006/12/06/burning-down-our-own-neighborhood-reconsidered/ in particular.)

For that matter, however, the Orthodox typically limit their efforts to public issues, issues which affect the country as a whole -- including the Orthodox. Public desecration of the Sabbath or violation of basic Jewish values destroys society at its core (in addition to being forbidden). We oppose it more to preserve our own value system than to force it upon others. And through some such religious "impositions", an uncomfortable status quo has for decades prevailed in Israel. Yet our greatest contribution to Israel -- and to the world -- is just in holding on -- exemplifying through our words and deeds the Torah lifestyle for all, both Jew and Gentile, to see.

[New Yorker]

I think you are getting hung up on the semantics, stuck on the word "Conservative" you must be confusing "Conservative" American Jews, with Conservative Sepharadic Jews, the distinction must definitely be different, my family are Sephardic Jews, the way they worship is probably MORE biblically traditional than the Ashkenazim as there's been no European influence at all, and there's nothing "reformed" about it.

And since you're being so arrogant about things, I'll throw some arrogance your way, we're more authentic in our practices because we are not Europeanized, that's why we don't wear funny black Fedoras and coats, the requirement for that wasn't mentioned anywhere in the Torah last we checked, and we don't think any of the Jews that left Egypt during the great Exodus were wearing them but you never know, maybe an archeologist will dig up an relief carving of a Jew in a black coat and Fedora hat on old Egyptian column one of these days.  

We keep kosher, worship in Hebrew, and follow the law. And most of them are more sincerely Jewish and righteous than a lot of the hypocrites I see out there wearing a Fedora but lying cheating and stealing Monday through Friday, but think they are saints because they go to Shul and keep Kosher? And watch who you call "idol" worshiper, you know a hell of a lot less than you think you do.

[AsheDina]

                                                               בס"ד

Going to a Reform/Conservative "Synagouge" is the same
as going to a Church or a Mosque.

At least Mosques aren't a House of Prayer for idol worshippers.

At least Mosques aren't a House of Prayer for idol worshippers

Mohammed is not a fake 'g'od or an idol?  You think its ok that these people are SATANIC, want to murder us and instead of worshipping the ONLY G-d, they worship the satan?
I would not set foot in a mosque----EVER.
It was CHRISTIANS that helped to save Jews during the Holocaust, the Moslems aligned with S/itler to murder us all.
Sometimes, these threads go straight to the DUMP.

[muman613]

I think you are getting hung up on the semantics, stuck on the word "Conservative" you must be confusing "Conservative" American Jews, with Conservative Sepharadic Jews, the distinction must definitely be different, my family are Sephardic Jews, the way they worship is probably MORE biblically traditional than the Ashkenazim as there's been no European influence at all, and there's nothing "reformed" about it.

And since you're being so arrogant about things, I'll throw some arrogance your way, we're more authentic in our practices because we are not Europeanized, that's why we don't wear funny black Fedoras and coats, the requirement for that wasn't mentioned anywhere in the Torah last we checked, and we don't think any of the Jews that left Egypt during the great Exodus were wearing them but you never know, maybe an archeologist will dig up an relief carving of a Jew in a black coat and Fedora hat on old Egyptian column one of these days.  

We keep kosher, worship in Hebrew, and follow the law. And most of them are more sincerely Jewish and righteous than a lot of the hypocrites I see out there wearing a Fedora but lying cheating and stealing Monday through Friday, but think they are saints because they go to Shul and keep Kosher? And watch who you call "idol" worshiper, you know a hell of a lot less than you think you do.

This was completely uncalled for... You are pulling this Sephardic is more authentic stuff? Come on... I think Serphardic Jews are very nice and I daven with them. I have no need to belittle Sephardic Jews but you seem to have a need to insult Ashkenazi. This reflects badly on your character...

Regarding the differences in dress... No Ashkenazi Jew thinks that the hat that they wear is a biblically mandated thing. The reason they wear it is because of minhag. Each community has its own minhag and this is to be respected by wordwide Judaism. I dont go around picking on the things I find strange with Sephardic minhag.

[New Yorker]

I think you are getting hung up on the semantics, stuck on the word "Conservative" you must be confusing "Conservative" American Jews, with Conservative Sepharadic Jews, the distinction must definitely be different, my family are Sephardic Jews, the way they worship is probably MORE biblically traditional than the Ashkenazim as there's been no European influence at all, and there's nothing "reformed" about it.

And since you're being so arrogant about things, I'll throw some arrogance your way, we're more authentic in our practices because we are not Europeanized, that's why we don't wear funny black Fedoras and coats, the requirement for that wasn't mentioned anywhere in the Torah last we checked, and we don't think any of the Jews that left Egypt during the great Exodus were wearing them but you never know, maybe an archeologist will dig up an relief carving of a Jew in a black coat and Fedora hat on old Egyptian column one of these days.  

We keep kosher, worship in Hebrew, and follow the law. And most of them are more sincerely Jewish and righteous than a lot of the hypocrites I see out there wearing a Fedora but lying cheating and stealing Monday through Friday, but think they are saints because they go to Shul and keep Kosher? And watch who you call "idol" worshiper, you know a hell of a lot less than you think you do.

This was completely uncalled for... You are pulling this Sephardic is more authentic stuff? Come on... I think Serphardic Jews are very nice and I daven with them. I have no need to belittle Sephardic Jews but you seem to have a need to insult Ashkenazi. This reflects badly on your character...

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, since we're practically "idol worshipers" it shouldn't bother you what one of us thinks. I noticed you didn't think someone calling us that was uncalled for. And please, prove me wrong.

Arrogance is not appealing, is it? That's food for thought.

[muman613]

I think you are getting hung up on the semantics, stuck on the word "Conservative" you must be confusing "Conservative" American Jews, with Conservative Sepharadic Jews, the distinction must definitely be different, my family are Sephardic Jews, the way they worship is probably MORE biblically traditional than the Ashkenazim as there's been no European influence at all, and there's nothing "reformed" about it.

And since you're being so arrogant about things, I'll throw some arrogance your way, we're more authentic in our practices because we are not Europeanized, that's why we don't wear funny black Fedoras and coats, the requirement for that wasn't mentioned anywhere in the Torah last we checked, and we don't think any of the Jews that left Egypt during the great Exodus were wearing them but you never know, maybe an archeologist will dig up an relief carving of a Jew in a black coat and Fedora hat on old Egyptian column one of these days.  

We keep kosher, worship in Hebrew, and follow the law. And most of them are more sincerely Jewish and righteous than a lot of the hypocrites I see out there wearing a Fedora but lying cheating and stealing Monday through Friday, but think they are saints because they go to Shul and keep Kosher? And watch who you call "idol" worshiper, you know a hell of a lot less than you think you do.

This was completely uncalled for... You are pulling this Sephardic is more authentic stuff? Come on... I think Serphardic Jews are very nice and I daven with them. I have no need to belittle Sephardic Jews but you seem to have a need to insult Ashkenazi. This reflects badly on your character...

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, since we're practically "idol worshipers" it shouldn't bother you what one of us thinks. I noticed you didn't think someone calling us that was uncalled for. 

Im sorry but I dont recall calling anyone idol worshippers. Can you please show me where I said this? I think I was originally trying to give the benefit of the doubt to Conservative Judaism and somehow it became an attack on Ashkenazic Judaism.

I think you are a bit sensitive to what Yehudah was saying...

[New Yorker]

I think you are getting hung up on the semantics, stuck on the word "Conservative" you must be confusing "Conservative" American Jews, with Conservative Sepharadic Jews, the distinction must definitely be different, my family are Sephardic Jews, the way they worship is probably MORE biblically traditional than the Ashkenazim as there's been no European influence at all, and there's nothing "reformed" about it.

And since you're being so arrogant about things, I'll throw some arrogance your way, we're more authentic in our practices because we are not Europeanized, that's why we don't wear funny black Fedoras and coats, the requirement for that wasn't mentioned anywhere in the Torah last we checked, and we don't think any of the Jews that left Egypt during the great Exodus were wearing them but you never know, maybe an archeologist will dig up an relief carving of a Jew in a black coat and Fedora hat on old Egyptian column one of these days.  

We keep kosher, worship in Hebrew, and follow the law. And most of them are more sincerely Jewish and righteous than a lot of the hypocrites I see out there wearing a Fedora but lying cheating and stealing Monday through Friday, but think they are saints because they go to Shul and keep Kosher? And watch who you call "idol" worshiper, you know a hell of a lot less than you think you do.

This was completely uncalled for... You are pulling this Sephardic is more authentic stuff? Come on... I think Serphardic Jews are very nice and I daven with them. I have no need to belittle Sephardic Jews but you seem to have a need to insult Ashkenazi. This reflects badly on your character...

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, since we're practically "idol worshipers" it shouldn't bother you what one of us thinks. I noticed you didn't think someone calling us that was uncalled for. 

Im sorry but I dont recall calling anyone idol worshippers. Can you please show me where I said this? I think I was originally trying to give the benefit of the doubt to Conservative Judaism and somehow it became an attack on Ashkenazic Judaism.

I think you are a bit sensitive to what Yehudah was saying...

I didn't say it was you that said it, yes it was Yehudah, I was refering to his post, I assumed you understood I meant his post.

And no I wasn't a bit sensitive to what he said, I was just as sensitive as you were, to what I said. Interesting how it's not offensive when it's referring to someone else isn't it? But now with the shoe on the other foot, wow we find offense! I didn't call Ashkenazim idol worshipers like he did about Conservative Jews, I just said they weren't as authentic as Sepharadics because they've been influenced by European ways. Idol worshipers? Can you think of a worse thing to call a fellow Jew short of calling him a Nazi? And I'm a bit sensitive? All I said in response is that we're more authentic, but that you found a problem with, not the idol worshiper thing. Funny that.

[Moshe92]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

[New Yorker]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

You are making the same mistake as Yehudah mixing up Conservative with reformed, and further, mixing up Sephardic Conservative with American Conservative, Sepharadic Conservative is actually CONSERVATIVE, in the real sense of the word.

[mord]

Good News, the Synagogue in Destin is Orthodox. It's also Sephardic and mainly people from Israel

21 miles from me so bit of a drive, no good for Sabbath but I can try to relocate there I suppose. Destins a bit pricey though the area I live (Gulf Breeze) isn't much cheaper.

Gulf Breeze thats great they have many ufo sightings there

[New Yorker]

Good News, the Synagogue in Destin is Orthodox. It's also Sephardic and mainly people from Israel

21 miles from me so bit of a drive, no good for Sabbath but I can try to relocate there I suppose. Destins a bit pricey though the area I live (Gulf Breeze) isn't much cheaper.

Gulf Breeze thats great they have many ufo sightings there

What are you doing all the way out in BFE Florida?

[Moshe92]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

You are making the same mistake as Yehudah mixing up Conservative with reformed, and further, mixing up Sephardic Conservative with American Conservative, Sepharadic Conservative is actually CONSERVATIVE, in the real sense of the word.

The Sephardic Jews I know who go to conservative synagogues are no different than any Ashkenazic Jews who go to conservative synagogues.

[White Israelite]

Good News, the Synagogue in Destin is Orthodox. It's also Sephardic and mainly people from Israel

21 miles from me so bit of a drive, no good for Sabbath but I can try to relocate there I suppose. Destins a bit pricey though the area I live (Gulf Breeze) isn't much cheaper.

Gulf Breeze thats great they have many ufo sightings there

Believe it or not, i've actually seen some of those "UFO's" I kid you not, I walk on the beach at night and sleep there sometimes and my girlfriend and I see all kinds of weird stuff in the sky, some of it could be military testing aircraft since I live near a airforce base.

[mord]

Good News, the Synagogue in Destin is Orthodox. It's also Sephardic and mainly people from Israel

21 miles from me so bit of a drive, no good for Sabbath but I can try to relocate there I suppose. Destins a bit pricey though the area I live (Gulf Breeze) isn't much cheaper.

Gulf Breeze thats great they have many ufo sightings there

Believe it or not, i've actually seen some of those "UFO's" I kid you not, I walk on the beach at night and sleep there sometimes and my girlfriend and I see all kinds of weird stuff in the sky, some of it could be military testing aircraft since I live near a airforce base.

It's been going on for yrs

[New Yorker]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

You are making the same mistake as Yehudah mixing up Conservative with reformed, and further, mixing up Sephardic Conservative with American Conservative, Sepharadic Conservative is actually CONSERVATIVE, in the real sense of the word.

The Sephardic Jews I know who go to conservative synagogues are no different than any Ashkenazic Jews who go to conservative synagogues.

Sepharadic Judaism emphasize preserving the traditions and are actual conservatives. I don't know about who you are referring to in your personal experience, but I know it from mine as I am actually living it and can contrast and compare.

I once went to a reform service at a Bar Mitzvah I was invited to, my first thought was "What the hell is this!?" it was in English, no Hebrew at all, and they even had an organ player to give it that Christian feel. It is night and day between Conservative and reformed; And Sepharadic Conservative and Ashkenazi Conservative, the latter being far more "liberal" about things.

[Moshe92]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

You are making the same mistake as Yehudah mixing up Conservative with reformed, and further, mixing up Sephardic Conservative with American Conservative, Sepharadic Conservative is actually CONSERVATIVE, in the real sense of the word.

The Sephardic Jews I know who go to conservative synagogues are no different than any Ashkenazic Jews who go to conservative synagogues.

Spharadic Judaism emphasize preserving the traditions and are actual conservatives. I don't know about who you are referring to in your personal experience, but I know it from mine as I am actually living it and can contrast and compare.

I once went to a reform service at a Bar Mitzvah I was invited to, my first thought was "What the hell is this!?" it was in English, no Hebrew at all, and they even had an organ player to give it that Christian feel. It is night and day between Conservative and reformed; And Sepharadic Conservative and Ashkenazi Conservative, the latter being far more "liberal" about things.

My family is a fairly typical conservative Jewish family. My family members keep kosher in the home but go to non-kosher restaurants, don't go out on Friday nights but violate shabbat at home on Friday nights, go to synagogue on shabbat but drive there, etc. How is your family or any Sephardic conservative family different?

[New Yorker]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

You are making the same mistake as Yehudah mixing up Conservative with reformed, and further, mixing up Sephardic Conservative with American Conservative, Sepharadic Conservative is actually CONSERVATIVE, in the real sense of the word.

The Sephardic Jews I know who go to conservative synagogues are no different than any Ashkenazic Jews who go to conservative synagogues.

Spharadic Judaism emphasize preserving the traditions and are actual conservatives. I don't know about who you are referring to in your personal experience, but I know it from mine as I am actually living it and can contrast and compare.

I once went to a reform service at a Bar Mitzvah I was invited to, my first thought was "What the hell is this!?" it was in English, no Hebrew at all, and they even had an organ player to give it that Christian feel. It is night and day between Conservative and reformed; And Sepharadic Conservative and Ashkenazi Conservative, the latter being far more "liberal" about things.

My family is a fairly typical conservative Jewish family. My family members keep kosher in the home but go to non-kosher restaurants, don't go out on Friday nights but violate shabbat at home on Friday nights, go to synagogue on shabbat but drive there, etc. How is your family or any Sephardic conservative family different?

My family, totally kosher, and they walk to synagogue, my father walked to Synagogue on the sabbath well into his elderly years, in his 80's, when he would even have been justified in having someone drive him and he refused. So when someone like Yehudah thinks he knows what he's talking about and arrogantly makes sweeping generalities about people, it makes me see red.

That said, I'm not that observant, but I'm the individual exception, definitely not the rule.

[Moshe92]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

You are making the same mistake as Yehudah mixing up Conservative with reformed, and further, mixing up Sephardic Conservative with American Conservative, Sepharadic Conservative is actually CONSERVATIVE, in the real sense of the word.

The Sephardic Jews I know who go to conservative synagogues are no different than any Ashkenazic Jews who go to conservative synagogues.

Spharadic Judaism emphasize preserving the traditions and are actual conservatives. I don't know about who you are referring to in your personal experience, but I know it from mine as I am actually living it and can contrast and compare.

I once went to a reform service at a Bar Mitzvah I was invited to, my first thought was "What the hell is this!?" it was in English, no Hebrew at all, and they even had an organ player to give it that Christian feel. It is night and day between Conservative and reformed; And Sepharadic Conservative and Ashkenazi Conservative, the latter being far more "liberal" about things.

My family is a fairly typical conservative Jewish family. My family members keep kosher in the home but go to non-kosher restaurants, don't go out on Friday nights but violate shabbat at home on Friday nights, go to synagogue on shabbat but drive there, etc. How is your family or any Sephardic conservative family different?

My family, totally kosher, and they walk to synagogue, my father walked to Synagogue on the sabbath well into his elderly years, in his 80's, when he would even have been justified in having someone drive him and he refused. So when someone like Yehudah thinks he knows what he's talking about and arrogantly makes sweeping generalities about people, it makes me see red.

That said, I'm not that observant, but I'm the individual exception, definitely not the rule.

Well then your father was an Orthodox Jew. According to conservative Judaism, it's ok to drive to synagogue on shabbat.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Ron, that comment was not necessary.

As for everything else, I have to agree that "Conservative" Judaism is not real Judaism. It is barely different from Deformed.

[New Yorker]

New Yorker, I think that Jews need to leave "conservative" Judaism. The whole movement is about deciding which laws you want to keep and which laws you don't want to keep which is silly and goes against the Torah, obviously. By the way, I went to pre-school in a conservative synagogue, I went to a Solomon Schechter school for eight years, my Bar Mitzvah was at a conservative synagogue, almost my entire family is conservative Jewish, and most Jews my family associates with are conservative.

You are making the same mistake as Yehudah mixing up Conservative with reformed, and further, mixing up Sephardic Conservative with American Conservative, Sepharadic Conservative is actually CONSERVATIVE, in the real sense of the word.

The Sephardic Jews I know who go to conservative synagogues are no different than any Ashkenazic Jews who go to conservative synagogues.

Spharadic Judaism emphasize preserving the traditions and are actual conservatives. I don't know about who you are referring to in your personal experience, but I know it from mine as I am actually living it and can contrast and compare.

I once went to a reform service at a Bar Mitzvah I was invited to, my first thought was "What the hell is this!?" it was in English, no Hebrew at all, and they even had an organ player to give it that Christian feel. It is night and day between Conservative and reformed; And Sepharadic Conservative and Ashkenazi Conservative, the latter being far more "liberal" about things.

My family is a fairly typical conservative Jewish family. My family members keep kosher in the home but go to non-kosher restaurants, don't go out on Friday nights but violate shabbat at home on Friday nights, go to synagogue on shabbat but drive there, etc. How is your family or any Sephardic conservative family different?

My family, totally kosher, and they walk to synagogue, my father walked to Synagogue on the sabbath well into his elderly years, in his 80's, when he would even have been justified in having someone drive him and he refused. So when someone like Yehudah thinks he knows what he's talking about and arrogantly makes sweeping generalities about people, it makes me see red.

That said, I'm not that observant, but I'm the individual exception, definitely not the rule.

Well then your father was an Orthodox Jew. According to conservative Judaism, it's ok to drive to synagogue on shabbat.

He called himself a Conservative, and that meant keeping kosher, and properly keeping the sabbath, that's why I said I think we've got a misunderstanding of the term Conservative here, and apparently the definition varies based on the wing of Judaism it is being applied to, possibly even from congregation to congregation, I do know that the Sephardic Conservative Jews I personally know, follow the way my dad did. That's why I am pissed off at that guy Yehudah, he slurred a lot of very good people.

[New Yorker]

Ron, that comment was not necessary.

As for everything else, I have to agree that "Conservative" Judaism is not real Judaism. It is barely different from Deformed.

First that guy Yehudah now you? Then you too are completely ignorant on the subject and should save you opinion since it is uninformed and makes you look imbecilic. We're NOTHING like the reformed and I bet my family is more authentically Jewish than yours. Offended? Good, because you just insulted my family with that post so you deserve it in return.

I'm starting to see a very ugly trend here, and if this is the position of the majority of the Jews here, I'm out, because I don't need to associate with Jews who are like that. I expect brothers, not self aggrandizing arrogant pri*ks.

[muman613]

Ron, that comment was not necessary.

As for everything else, I have to agree that "Conservative" Judaism is not real Judaism. It is barely different from Deformed.

First that guy Yehudah now you? Then you too are completely ignorant on the subject and should save you opinion since it is uninformed and makes you look imbecilic. We're NOTHING like the reformed and I bet my family is more authentically Jewish than yours. Offended? Good, because you just insulted my family with that post so you deserve it in return.

I'm starting to see a very ugly trend here, and if this is the position of the majority of the Jews here, I'm out, because I don't need to associate with Jews who are like that. I expect brothers, not self aggrandizing arrogant pri*ks.

First off Dr Brennen Fan is not Jewish. Second, I believe that he is repeating what Chaim has said on occasion. Third, I don't know about Conservative Sephardic synagogues... I have never heard of this before since I had heard that Sephardim only recognize Orthodox Judaism. I believe you that they may be more Orthodox than Conservative based on American Conservative judaism...

But let us not be divisive... I work on bringing people together and not tearing them apart.

[takebackourtemple]

   Call 770 and ask if they can send someone for you and any other Jews that may be in the area. This might sound ridiculous to most people, but that is what Chabad does. They have sent Rabbis to much more remote areas.