Saying "homosexuality is a sin" a criminal offence in UK

[rebel_conservative]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270364/Christian-preacher-hooligan-charge-saying-believes-homosexuality-sin.html

A Christian preacher in the UK has been arrested and charged with a public-order offence (intended for hooligans) for saying that homosexuality was sinful - politely, in a conversation, he wasn't screaming at anyone or making threats.

That is liberal 'tolerance' for you.

[Masha]

The same thing happened in Sweden.

Liberalism is on the collision course with islam. When islam takes over, it will be interesting to watch.

[Ulli]

They can say whatever they want. It is a very serious sin. From a Christian point of view you are falling out of grace for beeing involved in it. In fact it means eternal destruction that means second death.

[JTFenthusiast2]

I think you need to read the article.  It wasn't a "polite conversation," but a rude interruption to people who were shopping.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "a rude interruption to people who were shopping."

Those "limeys" need to go to Tel Aviv for one day.

There they'll find out what "rude interruption" really means!      

                                               

[JTFenthusiast2]

Massuh,

That has nothing to do with this.  I mean not even a little

[Rubystars]

I think Massuh has a very good point. Anybody throwing a hissy fit about someone causing a so-called rude interruption in a store needs a reality check. I bet some woman was screaming louder than that at one of the registers that day.

People need to know that homosexuality is a serious sin and if a preacher has to shout it out loud for people to realize it, then so be it.

JTFEnthusiast I don't think you really believe practiced homosexuality is sinful otherwise why do you always defend it?

[JTFenthusiast2]

Ruby

I'm not falling into this trap again with you or any member who think it's their place to question me when I defend a gay persons right to live free from public harassment--which is just what this is.  My comment was about the article and it's misrepresentation as being a 'peaceful discussion'.   You want to add a whole lot of drek that isn't there, you go right ahead and do that. 

[Rubystars]

I don't think that anybody should be harassed, but telling people the Biblical truth is not harmful. It's what the person needs to hear in order to better their spiritual situation.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Anyone has the right to preach his/her beliefs but not to interrupt or harras people in public places. I don't know exctly what happened in this case. I don't think that UK forbids religions to preach their rules now.
But according to pro-Muslim Leftists it's a crime not to be gay for a non-Muslim, since only Islam has the right to keep its morality.

[rebel_conservative]

I think you need to read the article.  It wasn't a "polite conversation," but a rude interruption to people who were shopping.

I read it again and I really don't see where you get that from.  Please quote from the article.

He is handing out leaflets, take one or walk on by.  No interruption.

"Mr Mcalpine said a woman came up to him and they became engaged in a debate about his faith, during which he says he recited a number of sins referred to in 1 Corinthians in the Bible, including blasphemy, fornication, adultery, drunkenness and homosexuality, as well as talking about repentance and salvation.

He and the woman were standing close to each other and he said he did not raise his voice.

Mr Mcalpine says that as the woman left, one of the two officers, PCSO Sam Adams, approached her and had a brief chat before walking towards him."

Both the woman and the pretend policeman walked up to him, they chose to engage him in conversation.  He did nothing wrong.

I accept the right of gay people to live their life their way, I don't have a problem with it, it is their business - unless they try to force it on others via schools etc.  I equally support the right of people to speak their mind, no matter who they offend.

[Novakovic]

Homosexuality leads to Nazism!

[rebel_conservative]

Homosexuality leads to Nazism!

I don't think you can draw that conclusion.

[Ulli]

Anyone has the right to preach his/her beliefs but not to interrupt or harras people in public places. I don't know exctly what happened in this case. I don't think that UK forbids religions to preach their rules now.
But according to pro-Muslim Leftists it's a crime not to be gay for a non-Muslim, since only Islam has the right to keep its morality.

Point

[Rubystars]

Homosexuality leads to Nazism!

I don't think you can draw that conclusion.

It is an indicator of a degraded society though, and some homosexuals may resent Jews because their Bible says that what they do is a sin.

[Hyades]

Then please tell me why do all those Imams and hojas not get jailed for their instigation against their host nations, and they do also say hs was sin and that women who betray thir husbands have to be killed. Why does no one take care of those imams in France, Britain and Sweden who "allowed" the male muslims to rape muslim women who do not use at least a head scarf? Why always to measures for the same things?

And one can read the Bible and see it written: It s a sin! Whether someone believes it or not is a different thing. But a preacher has to preach the Bible and not the Constitution - then he would be a lawyer! 

[Zenith]

something is ... interesting with gay people.

let's say that I think that whoever wears black T-shirt goes to hell. I scream it loud everybody: "You go to hell, for you're wearing black T-shirt!". who would feel offended/oppressed/persecuted/harassed?
my opinion, NOBODY.
if you were living in a distant country, where let's say 30% of the population believed that if one wears black T-shirt, he would go to hell, and you know that. still, you go in street wearing a black T-shirt. Considering that no one mocks you, etc. and you hear one speaking in public that those people who wear black T-shirt go to hell, without instigating hatred, asking those who do this to repent and those who don't, never to do that, who would feel offended/oppressed/persecuted/harrassed so that he would see fit the police to interfere?
my opinion, NOBODY.
actually, there may be people who would intentionally get black T-shirts because of those who believe that it's a sin (a kind of defiance).

According to Islam, I go to hell. so should I protest in streets asking muslims to say that non-muslims like me go to heaven?

yet when it comes to homosexual acts, even explicitly saying in public "I believe it is a sin against God", gay people feel all that way, even though they may be atheists! but if one doesn't believe in God, how can he feel bad for being stated that he has sinned? (when sin does not exist if God doesn't exist). if he says he is religious, how can he believe the bible if it clearly states the same thing?

also there is the teaching that gay people are somehow born gay. that is, they "realize they were gay when they were X years". I don't think the nature creates gay people, even from an atheistic & evolutionistic point of view. I do believe they feel attraction, male for another male, but even child molesters feel that way with children. So I don't think it makes it natural.
I think freedom of speach should be "say what you think, whatever you think. But think what you say and watch your intentions."

[JTFenthusiast2]

Zenith,

It sounds like he was at an outdoor mall 'pedestrianized  shopping precinct.'  If this is the case, the owners of the shops of the mall have every right to ask him to leave.  Being arrested is overkill, but look at what the British have to contend with these days.  They are right to muzzle the voices of those who would shout other far worse things in public centers.  For part of the time, the article says that he was shouting or rather his colleague was, from a latter.  I don't care what he's saying at this point.  That is totally inapppropriate behavior.  Not every public space is a personal forum for one's beliefs.  We don't have automatic free speech everywhere. 

[Zenith]

For part of the time, the article says that he was shouting or rather his colleague was, from a latter

so maybe I should have read all the article. but I was lazy and read only from the beginning ; ) ).
An that would turn it into an inappropriate behaviour.

[cjd]

I really can't stand sidewalk preachers of any kind. I don't go to the stores often unless its for something I actually need however the last thing I want to listen to is someone preaching or handing out pamphlets. While I think it was wrong for the guy to be arrested on charges like that I don't want to have people preaching from step ladders in shopping centers unless they have the legal right to do so.  There is a time and place for everything and annoying people in a shopping district where merchants pay high rent and taxes is not the correct setting for that sort of thing. Homosexuality is not an issue that is going to be reversed by a sidewalk preacher.

[Raulmarrio2000]

something is ... interesting with gay people.

let's say that I think that whoever wears black T-shirt goes to hell. I scream it loud everybody: "You go to hell, for you're wearing black T-shirt!". who would feel offended/oppressed/persecuted/harassed?
my opinion, NOBODY.
if you were living in a distant country, where let's say 30% of the population believed that if one wears black T-shirt, he would go to hell, and you know that. still, you go in street wearing a black T-shirt. Considering that no one mocks you, etc. and you hear one speaking in public that those people who wear black T-shirt go to hell, without instigating hatred, asking those who do this to repent and those who don't, never to do that, who would feel offended/oppressed/persecuted/harrassed so that he would see fit the police to interfere?
my opinion, NOBODY.
actually, there may be people who would intentionally get black T-shirts because of those who believe that it's a sin (a kind of defiance).

According to Islam, I go to hell. so should I protest in streets asking muslims to say that non-muslims like me go to heaven?

yet when it comes to homosexual acts, even explicitly saying in public "I believe it is a sin against G-d", gay people feel all that way, even though they may be atheists! but if one doesn't believe in G-d, how can he feel bad for being stated that he has sinned? (when sin does not exist if G-d doesn't exist). if he says he is religious, how can he believe the bible if it clearly states the same thing?

also there is the teaching that gay people are somehow born gay. that is, they "realize they were gay when they were X years". I don't think the nature creates gay people, even from an atheistic & evolutionistic point of view. I do believe they feel attraction, male for another male, but even child molesters feel that way with children. So I don't think it makes it natural.
I think freedom of speach should be "say what you think, whatever you think. But think what you say and watch your intentions."

There is a difference between stating that wearing such a cloth deserves Hell and saying that gays go to hell. Even if a gay is not religious and doesn't believe it, they are ussualy troubled because they are different from the rest or have problems with their friends and family. And I hold that even saying that wearing black T-shirts is a sin, could hurt somebody. Once I heard a preacher saying that wearing long hair or listening to rock'n roll is a sin and I got hurt, even if I only listen to ethnic music and my hair is very short. But anyone has the right to say his truth even if he hurts somebody. The problem is when they take over a public place without permission.

[muman613]

something is ... interesting with gay people.

let's say that I think that whoever wears black T-shirt goes to hell. I scream it loud everybody: "You go to hell, for you're wearing black T-shirt!". who would feel offended/oppressed/persecuted/harassed?
my opinion, NOBODY.
if you were living in a distant country, where let's say 30% of the population believed that if one wears black T-shirt, he would go to hell, and you know that. still, you go in street wearing a black T-shirt. Considering that no one mocks you, etc. and you hear one speaking in public that those people who wear black T-shirt go to hell, without instigating hatred, asking those who do this to repent and those who don't, never to do that, who would feel offended/oppressed/persecuted/harrassed so that he would see fit the police to interfere?
my opinion, NOBODY.
actually, there may be people who would intentionally get black T-shirts because of those who believe that it's a sin (a kind of defiance).

According to Islam, I go to hell. so should I protest in streets asking muslims to say that non-muslims like me go to heaven?

yet when it comes to homosexual acts, even explicitly saying in public "I believe it is a sin against G-d", gay people feel all that way, even though they may be atheists! but if one doesn't believe in G-d, how can he feel bad for being stated that he has sinned? (when sin does not exist if G-d doesn't exist). if he says he is religious, how can he believe the bible if it clearly states the same thing?

also there is the teaching that gay people are somehow born gay. that is, they "realize they were gay when they were X years". I don't think the nature creates gay people, even from an atheistic & evolutionistic point of view. I do believe they feel attraction, male for another male, but even child molesters feel that way with children. So I don't think it makes it natural.
I think freedom of speach should be "say what you think, whatever you think. But think what you say and watch your intentions."

There is a difference between stating that wearing such a cloth deserves Hell and saying that gays go to hell. Even if a gay is not religious and doesn't believe it, they are ussualy troubled because they are different from the rest or have problems with their friends and family. And I hold that even saying that wearing black T-shirts is a sin, could hurt somebody. Once I heard a preacher saying that wearing long hair or listening to rock'n roll is a sin and I got hurt, even if I only listen to ethnic music and my hear is very short. But anyone has the right to say his truth even if he hurts somebody. The problem is when they take over a public place without permission.

To say that homosexuality is a sin is basically saying the truth... Saying that a black T-shirt is a sin, or listening to rock music, etc... is absolute 100% BS...

[rebel_conservative]

It sounds like he was at an outdoor mall 'pedestrianized  shopping precinct.'  If this is the case, the owners of the shops of the mall have every right to ask him to leave. 

essentially, an outdoor mall, yes. except it is not on private property, it is a public right of way.

and he wasn't asked to leave by anyone, that is not why he was arrested.  he was arrested for "using abusive or insulting words"

For part of the time, the article says that he was shouting or rather his colleague was, from a latter.

if what you are saying is correct - why was he arrested? why was his colleague not arrested???
the other guy was preaching from the ladder, that was not the problem.
the problem was him saying homosexuality is a sin in a private conversation

  I don't care what he's saying at this point.  That is totally inapppropriate behavior.  Not every public space is a personal forum for one's beliefs.  We don't have automatic free speech everywhere. 

he was not arrested for preaching or shouting in a public space!!! read the article! he was charged with using abusive or insulting words for saying that homosexuality is a sin in a private conversation that was initiated by the complainant.

[Daniel]

I personally disagree with the notion that homosexuality is a sin. However, I believe that anyone should have the freedom to say whatever they want to about it. Otherwise, they are engaging in the very intolerance they are trying to fight against.

[Hyades]

But I still did not get the point of the offense here. It would be offensive to call him for example a "dirty fag" or something of that kind. Then I would agree that this was an insult.
But that it is a sin is simply the truth from the religious point of view. And when the preacher says that the Bible considers this a sin then it is no offense - it is a FACT.