debates and views

[Zenith]

Hi everybody!

I'd like some opinions on this issue, especially from people who have talked to and debated many people.
Can there ever be a resolution to a debate on the internet (messenger, blogs, forums, etc.)?

There are some people who say they need evidences that the holocaust ever existed, because they believe it was a "story invented by the jews to occupy the land of palestine" (you might have heard this before), there are others that say that the crimes done by the Catholic church in the middle-ages actually never existed, but it was an invented story made by I don't know whom for I don't know what reason, others that may even tell that "everybody around you lie to you, all the teachings you were taught are false and manipulation", while only he/they wield the truth, etc. And people are able to find "evidence" to what they believe in, in everything.

There was a melody that said "Everyone says different things, but they're all convinced that they're the ones who see", and it seems to be quite so.
So, if for everyone, his own views are correct, then why debating? (talking on a subject each had different views). I think that those that already got to similar conclusions agree, while those that got to different conclusions will never come to a resolution.

Moreover, I got to the conclusion that, with the teaching that you were taught since child and/or in the culture you lived in, most surely in that you remain. In other words, we are products of our society.

So, how do you know that your view is correct? And how effective can be a debate?

thanks in advance.

[Dr. Dan]

Hi everybody!

I'd like some opinions on this issue, especially from people who have talked to and debated many people.
Can there ever be a resolution to a debate on the internet (messenger, blogs, forums, etc.)?




There are some people who say they need evidences that the holocaust ever existed, because they believe it was a "story invented by the jews to occupy the land of palestine" (you might have heard this before), there are others that say that the crimes done by the Catholic church in the middle-ages actually never existed, but it was an invented story made by I don't know whom for I don't know what reason, others that may even tell that "everybody around you lie to you, all the teachings you were taught are false and manipulation", while only he/they wield the truth, etc. And people are able to find "evidence" to what they believe in, in everything.




There was a melody that said "Everyone says different things, but they're all convinced that they're the ones who see", and it seems to be quite so.
So, if for everyone, his own views are correct, then why debating? (talking on a subject each had different views). I think that those that already got to similar conclusions agree, while those that got to different conclusions will never come to a resolution.

Moreover, I got to the conclusion that, with the teaching that you were taught since child and/or in the culture you lived in, most surely in that you remain. In other words, we are products of our society.

So, how do you know that your view is correct? And how effective can be a debate?

thanks in advance.

1. Sometimes depending on who you are debating
2. They are anti-semetic..You can present pictures and bones and they still won't believe it..so screw them..
3. Opinions are not facts...just remember that.  You can prove facts, you can't prove opinions

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Some things are objectively true and false.  It is objectively false to claim that the holocaust never happened.  There are overwhelming facts that prove it did happen.  If someone has been misled by the dishonest people who claim otherwise, showing them these facts in great quantity can overcome their mistaken view that they picked up from those who misled them, or by their own stupidity.   Yes, sometimes a view can be changed upon seeing evidence for or against it.   This requires a person to have humility and openness to see and hear the evidence and the different arguments.   If you claim most people are not so smart and most people are not humble enough, that may be true.  But there are people who are like that. 

And sometimes people are just uninformed, but upon being informed of new information, their view can change.  Do you really believe otherwise?  That no single person ever changed his view on anything?   That is not a realistic belief.  In fact, we have direct proof that it's not true.  There are many people in this forum whose views on various issues have changed over their lifetimes.

[Zenith]

I personally never debated the issue of the holocaust. But the idea was that, no matter how crazy some things would be, they are believed. And I think it's hard to prove the holocause by just sending some links, because someone could easily say "that's a fabricated lie."

I'll give a concrete and less absurd example than examples above.
I've talked to a few christian orthodox people so far (about their religion), but it seems there is a too much love for "Virgin Mary" and a too strong bondage to the priests, so they would run quickly to the priest so that they would forgive their sins (that is, to feel less guilty), they seem to fear studying for themselves (if I know right, in their religion only the priests have the right to interpret the bible) or to get to other conclusion (than that "what they did so far is good and correct").

My point in life is not to "prove everybody around me that my views are correct", but trying to debate the differences. And that was somewhat odd and frustrating...

Others just "already know the truth" so they are ready to teach, but not to listen; and others may, at a certain point give up thinking about "the truth" because they get to either the conclusion that "no one can find out the truth" or that "human mind is very sick and can believe anything and you can't rely on it too much", which at a certain point, seems true.

If you claim most people are not so smart and most people are not humble enough, that may be true.  But there are people who are like that.

Maybe I just didn't talk to (debate with) enough people.

[Skkie]

To win an argument both parties must agree and be arguing on some common principles, if they don't there will never be a consensus or resolution.