Kahane, you keep bringing up that I misinterpreted your thread, then you refer to it as stupid. Sorry this is the third time you have done it. I stand by my original read of what you wrote. I don't want to keep bringing this up, but you keep bringing it up and it's getting tired. I also do not agree with your connecting drug abuse to two adults who are in a loving relationship, no matter what you may think of that loving relationship. In my view, equating this to alcoholism is dead wrong.
If you didn't misinterpet what I wrote, howcome you can never explain why or how you know what I said better than I did? I meant what was written. I have clarified what I wrote. So how can you give an explanation if I disagree with your explanation of my statement? That defeats the purpose of a discussion if you are going to ascribe views to me which are not my views.
That was my original complaint. You suggested that I defend any Orthodox Jew. Despite the fact that I criticized some people in the movie in the same comment! (Please read carefully if you wish to reply to me). So where do you find to "interpret" from what I wrote that I defend all Torah Jews? Upon clarifying that you misread what I wrote, you are now insisting that I really meant something different than my own mind thought? Where are you getting all this from?
You ascribed views to me which I did not express. That was what I took issue with, and yet you not only refuse to engage the issues instead of these straw-man arguments you wrongly attribute to me, you insist to me that by what I said, I really meant the straw-man argument you invented. What Chutzpa!
And if you suggest that I "equated" a drug dealer with a gay person in a "loving relationship" (a so-called relationship which is actually an abomination), you are once again misinterpreting what I wrote. I did not equate those two things. I suggested that there is a line where a father has to discipline his child. That line can be crossed in any number of ways, several of which I mentioned, and one of which may be the embracing of "modern gay identity" as in the liberace queer costume/persona adopted by many modern gays just because they happen to like men. It does not mean everything that crosses this line has the same severity. Obviously a rapist victimizes someone else and is horrible. I am clarifying to you now that I did not intend to equate them with what I said! On the contrary. Neither does a rapist equate to a chronic gambler
(actually I never mentioned alcohol, so where did you get it from that I equate gays with alcoholics?). However, they may both cross the line into the area where discipline is needed rather than overflowing chesed (kindness).
We learn from Torah that a person cannot be always fully flowing with chesed, there is a balance with din (justice) that a parent must exude in order to instill discipline. So it is not correct to say that a parent who rejects the choice of their son to embrace a Liberace perversity and prance around like a feminine cowboy in leather, that this parent does not love their son. On the contrary, part of a loving relationship is the din aspect. To indiscriminately approve of every of the child's decisions, even perverse and incorrect ones, would not be love but a detrimental failure in parenting.
To be clear, I am stressing that there is a difference between 1. a sincere Jew who has an attraction to the same gender but seeks to adhere to the Torah despite an immense challenge and desire to go against it, and lives a normal life, without adopting foreign clothing or a new persona to accompany his gay attraction, and just simply needs help to combat his desire for an evil act
vs 2. a Jew who upon realizing he is attracted to men, decides to discard his Jewish identity and adopt a foreign "modern gay persona" in the form of a liberace freak wearing leather chaps and who prances around celebrating "gay pride" and other disgusting so-called 'causes.' Such a person is not just a sincere person seeking help or looking for a different role (if they do not feel capable of marrying a woman and procreating), but they have embraced something evil.
This difference creates a world of difference in how we go about responding to a particular person.
Let's not forget that "gay activists" and the evil causes they take up, in the vast majority of cases support the arabs and muslims who want to slaughter them.
Topic: Hamantaschen finally spills the beans... (Read 1763 times)