"Unthinkable" - A great non-PC movie about Islam, Terrorism, and Torture!

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914863/

This movie was great.  It showcased a very real perspective on why no-limits torture is advocatable in some circumstances, and the mentality of many Muslims, as well as the weak mentality many Americans think with.  I thought it was going to be PC, it was non-PC.  Two thumbs up!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unthinkable
Wiki has spoilers if you read it, but here is a description of the movie.

An FBI counter-terrorism team and a black-ops agent are assigned to interrogate an American Muslim man, Yusuf aka Younger (Sheen) who claims to have nuclear bombs planted in three U.S. cities.

A star of the show.

Samuel L. Jackson is in it, his character is awesome.  Job well done; good casting!

[Rubystars]

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If the bomb still goes off (according to wiki, the fourth one went off) then isn't the movie trying to say that in spite of the extreme torture used, that it wasn't truly effective?

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

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If the bomb still goes off (according to wiki, the fourth one went off) then isn't the movie trying to say that in spite of the extreme torture used, that it wasn't truly effective?

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The torture was ineffective because "H" [Jackson] was not allowed to torture the Muslims children in front of him for the last bomb location [he did kill the Muslims wife in front of him].  "H" was the only person who knew the Muslim was lying about having only 3 bombs as well.  If everyone had listened to the torturer and done what he wanted no Americans would have died.  PC weaklings were responsible for the murder of millions of Americans in this movie.
Threatening the children in front of their father got him to admit the 3 locations of the bombs he initially claimed existed.

[IsraelForever]

If everyone had listened to the torturer and done what he wanted no Americans would have died.  PC weaklings were responsible for the murder of millions of Americans in this movie.

As they will be in real life!  (And as they already have been.)

If you don't believe that torture can produce results, just ask the Mossad.

[Rubystars]

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I'll have to think about that one. My initial reaction is that it would be horrible to torture them because of what their father did, and it would be evil, because they're not the ones who did something wrong (at least not yet).

Weighing that against the lives of all the other people also comes into the equation too though and I wouldn't want my family vaporized for the sake of a terrorist's family. I could harden myself enough to allow them to be killed in front of him but the torture thing makes me balk. It's hard because my sense of right and wrong is making it very hard for me to think about this as strictly a numbers game.

[muman613]

RS,

I want to tell you that I too have those thoughts. We are from the good side because we always will think of the innocents who are killed. I think that it is good to regret the lives lost. We should not harden our hearts to feeling human, as it is a human trait which allows us to empathize with others.

What a person needs to do is allow his mind more influence over his feelings. It is a difficult thing to do but I believe that Judaism provides us a method to use both our head, and our heart, in our service to Hashem. Because we are composite beings, composed of a spiritual soul and a animal soul, we must be able to deal with conflict and opposition. I always see it as a balance between the trait of Chesed, and the trait of Gevurah... In english this means the conflict between the trait of kindness and the trait of strength or restraint. We all strive to be kind, but there are times we must hold back kindness, and even deal with strength... This idea is demonstrated in the story of the Akeidah, the binding of Yitzak on the altar by Abraham. Abraham was a man of unimaginable kindness, his hospitality is legendary, and yet Hashem asked him to sacrifice his beloved 37 year old son and this required him to act in a way which most don't consider kind.

And Ecclesiastes contains the phrase "A time for peace, and a time for war"... We must be prepared for both eventualities...

 

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

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I'll have to think about that one. My initial reaction is that it would be horrible to torture them because of what their father did, and it would be evil, because they're not the ones who did something wrong (at least not yet).

Weighing that against the lives of all the other people also comes into the equation too though and I wouldn't want my family vaporized for the sake of a terrorist's family. I could harden myself enough to allow them to be killed in front of him but the torture thing makes me balk. It's hard because my sense of right and wrong is making it very hard for me to think about this as strictly a numbers game.

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This was the very last ditch effort.  Days of other torture occurred until time was running out.  By withholding information the terrorist would have been doing it to his own family.  He was in charge, all he had to do was talk.  Sun-Tzu said in his "Art of War", "He who cannot be hurt, but loves others, can be hurt." - this is a primarily true statement [TAOF is a great, great book, not just for war but for life].  Millions [or even hundreds] of people vs. two kids of a terrorist?  No   question.  Maybe I am too harsh, but how could I explain to the millions of people who lost family members that their losses came at the expense of two people related to the terrorist murderer?  I think if the movie actually showed kids being tortured it would be too much, so I think the artistic way the movie showed the consequences of not torturing the kids was more tasteful.  God forbid the Muslims ever put us in this position.

[IsraelForever]

Some postulate that Hashem allowed the torturing of the Jews to happen in the Shoah so that the Jews would finally have their homeland back again. 

The shame is that these slime pig Muslims force us to act in horrible ways ourselves. 

However, if it's them or us who gets hurt -- it better be them!

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

RS,

I want to tell you that I too have those thoughts. We are from the good side because we always will think of the innocents who are killed. I think that it is good to regret the lives lost. We should not harden our hearts to feeling human, as it is a human trait which allows us to empathize with others.

What a person needs to do is allow his mind more influence over his feelings. It is a difficult thing to do but I believe that Judaism provides us a method to use both our head, and our heart, in our service to Hashem. Because we are composite beings, composed of a spiritual soul and a animal soul, we must be able to deal with conflict and opposition. I always see it as a balance between the trait of Chesed, and the trait of Gevurah... In english this means the conflict between the trait of kindness and the trait of strength or restraint. We all strive to be kind, but there are times we must hold back kindness, and even deal with strength... This idea is demonstrated in the story of the Akeidah, the binding of Yitzak on the altar by Abraham. Abraham was a man of unimaginable kindness, his hospitality is legendary, and yet Hashem asked him to sacrifice his beloved 37 year old son and this required him to act in a way which most don't consider kind.

And Ecclesiastes contains the phrase "A time for peace, and a time for war"... We must be prepared for both eventualities...

 

As always Muman, a great Torah view.  I agree with what you have said.