A 100% Haredi world by 2060: the future is "Black"!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

And that is why Hashem has raised an Amolekite Ahmadinejad Persian neo-Haman: to warn and prompt the Jew that if he doesn't fulfil his tafkid of quoting pesukim from the Chumash, the Third Jewish commonwealth is in jeopardy!

    
You have quite an imagination.   That's the nice way of putting it.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

When it came to Hilchos Eretz Yisroel, Rav Kahane was like a fish in water. Especially the Halachos of how to handle goyim in Israel.

I see you've now backtracked.

[wonga66]

It's just a matter of a few decades before the hardcore Chilloni heartland of Ramat Aviv is totally overrun by the Haredim of neighboring Bnei Brak
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896240,00.html

So how do you envisage Jewish demographics in Israel and outside it, in 2030, 2050 and in 2100?!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It's just a matter of a few decades before the hardcore Chilloni heartland of Ramat Aviv is totally overrun by the Haredim of neighboring Bnei Brak
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896240,00.html

So how do you envisage Jewish demographics in Israel and outside it, in 2030, 2050 and in 2100?!

LOL, so now it's not birthrate magical disappearing acts, but it's the existing haredim chabad-missionizing them away.   Yes, in fantasy world's 100% success rates are possible in any task!   So not only will they 100% disappear by having no children and haredim having 300 million "gazillion" kids per family, but whatever "surviving" chilonim of previous generations are still wandering around will surely be taken in by lollipops given out by Chabad, and suddenly they'll not only do a single mitzvah, they'll become kollel learners and fully observant self-identifying haredim in seconds flat.   And then marshmellows will fall from the sky.

[wonga66]

A birth curve is not a straight line. It suddenly exponentially takes off dramatically!



"The Israelites were fruitful and multiplied greatly and became exceedingly numerous, so that the land was filled with them" (Shmos 1).

If current birth rates persist, the Haredi numbers will suddenly be dramatically obvious to everyone.

By rights one should be happy that the majority of Jews will in the coming decades be Torah observers and believers.

But as Kahanists we cannot!

[muman613]

What are you getting at...

I will be happy when all the Jews are gathered in the Holy Land. What is there to worry about?

I have no care whether they are Chabad/Breslov/Haredi/Sephardi or whatever... Also how do you compare Kahanist to Chabad? Are there Kahahist outreach centers? I never have seen anything like that..

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

From what I have read, 2.11 births per woman are needed for a demographic to maintain itself in a society.  I have not made a huge study of this, only after watching a few movies based upon Muslims trying to out breed non-Muslims and did some googling.

[Dr. Dan]

The only religious Jews in israel that are having lots a kids aren't just the black hat anti zionist payot haredi but also the zionist kahanist ones and lubovitch. All I have to say is that I can only hope that secular self hating israelis will become extinct. We need a religious torah judaism israel and that's better thab the bolshevik one there right now.

[TheCoon]

Do the haredim generally reject military service in Israel? I've heard this before.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  Black suits, black hats, white shirts --

I asked a Chabad Rabbi this same question:  "Why do they dress in that style of clothing?"  "There is no Scriptural basis for it, and ancient Jews certainly did not dress in that apparel!"

He replied that such clothing was the style of the Polish Nobility during the times in which Chasidism was appearing.  The Jews wanted to be elegantly but simply dressed, and the plain black and white color motif was to represent humbleness in appearance, etc. .

I personally find that all who dress like this that I have met have the deeply held belief that all male Jews MUST dress and appear like this, or they are not Jews, and seem to become quite emotionally upset over the possibility that Jews would choose any other clothing styles.

I have yet to see an artistic representation of Moses or King David wearing black lace up shoes, black fedoras, white shirt, black pants, and black coats.  The truth is the Jews of ancient Israel probably more resembled the Taliban in their style of dress than they did the Haredim:  headcovering or turban like wrap, loose fitting gown style clothing, sandals, etc.  However, I don't recall depictions of ancient Jews all walking around wearing curved daggers or long swords, other than in time of war.

Of course, ancient Jews always wore Timex brand wristwatches.

Because the Jew, like a Timex , "takes a licking, and keeps on ticking!" 

[muman613]

Re:  Black suits, black hats, white shirts --

I asked a Chabad Rabbi this same question:  "Why do they dress in that style of clothing?"  "There is no Scriptural basis for it, and ancient Jews certainly did not dress in that apparel!"

He replied that such clothing was the style of the Polish Nobility during the times in which Chasidism was appearing.  The Jews wanted to be elegantly but simply dressed, and the plain black and white color motif was to represent humbleness in appearance, etc. .

I personally find that all who dress like this that I have met have the deeply held belief that all male Jews MUST dress and appear like this, or they are not Jews, and seem to become quite emotionally upset over the possibility that Jews would choose any other clothing styles.

I have yet to see an artistic representation of Moses or King David wearing black lace up shoes, black fedoras, white shirt, black pants, and black coats.  The truth is the Jews of ancient Israel probably more resembled the Taliban in their style of dress than they did the Haredim:  headcovering or turban like wrap, loose fitting gown style clothing, sandals, etc.  However, I don't recall depictions of ancient Jews all walking around wearing curved daggers or long swords, other than in time of war.

Of course, ancient Jews always wore Timex brand wristwatches.

Because the Jew, like a Timex , "takes a licking, and keeps on ticking!" 

My experience with Chabad differs from yours. I don't think Chabad expects all Jews to dress as Chabadniks. The Chabad events I attend most people don't dress as Chabad does. I know 3 Chabad Rabbis personally and none have ever expressed any idea that everyone should dress as Chabad. If you want to be a Chabadnik then you will dress as they do. I have no problem with the way they dress and I don't think anyone ever suggested this is the way King David or Moses dressed..

[FreedomFighter08]

Educate the young Jews of Israel about science, rational thought, and the Enlightenment and point out to them the works of Baruch Spinoza and Adam Smith to prevent this. No special treatment for people who don't want to act like they actually live in today's world.

[ape]

If Haredim are set to become the majority in Israel by 2030 http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/secular-jews-may-be-minority-in-israeli-schools-by-2030-1.277177 then by 2060 the chilloni Jew in Israel, with their negative birthrate and maybe even outside of Israel, will be extinct!

What will life be like in 50 years in a 100% black-coated peyos down to their knees full bearded non-Kahanist ultra-Orthodox Haredi Jewish world?!

Boy that guy looks scary....or like the michelin man or something. Is that a man or a parade float?

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

When I go to shul at Chabad I see maybe a quarter of the people there dressed in black suits, and many other young Jews dressed in stuff like khakis, collared shirt, and a blazer or such.  The latter is how I myself dress most of the time.  I'm sure other Chabad houses are different, the one I go to is quite small.

Otherwise its Levi's!  Jewish jeans! [never at Shul]
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Strauss.html

I had heard that the Ba'al Shem Tov dressed in a black suit like this and that's why many Jews dress like this.  People emulate other people they respect.  I started wearing nicer clothes at Shul because my Torah study leader dresses in a similar fashion and he gave a lesson on the holiness of clothes [a gift to Adam and Eve; G-d created clothes for their "newfound" modesty], he also tied in that wearing classier clothes is a way to personally show God respect.  Maybe I'm a lemming. --  I have also heard that in Talmud it says that a man should dress slightly less than his means, and should dress his wife slightly above his means.  I do all my shopping at Ross, paying about $13 for a pair of name brand dress slacks, and I am not married [yet!]; I imagine some women find this arrangement quite suitable.

[muman613]

Educate the young Jews of Israel about science, rational thought, and the Enlightenment and point out to them the works of Baruch Spinoza and Adam Smith to prevent this. No special treatment for people who don't want to act like they actually live in today's world.

Wonderful idea... Not...

While science is great it is essential that Jews are taught Torah. I also think that modern philosophies run contrary to Jewish wisdom...

PS: You know that Israel's High-Tech industry is booming and scientific breakthroughs are occuring often in Israel. I don't think that there is a lack of science eduction going on... But look at those leftists at Hebrew U... Maybe a little too much philosophy there...

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Educate the young Jews of Israel about science, rational thought, and the Enlightenment and point out to them the works of Baruch Spinoza and Adam Smith to prevent this. No special treatment for people who don't want to act like they actually live in today's world.

Wonderful idea... Not...

While science is great it is essential that Jews are taught Torah. I also think that modern philosophies run contrary to Jewish wisdom...

PS: You know that Israel's High-Tech industry is booming and scientific breakthroughs are occuring often in Israel. I don't think that there is a lack of science eduction going on... But look at those leftists at Hebrew U... Maybe a little too much philosophy there...

Spinoza is the most famous cherem I can think of.

[wonga66]

The Haredi can make as good a bus driver, army officer, accountant, computer programmer, dentist, doctor, brain surgeon and garbage collector as anyone else, if not better, especially when motivated by Torah and his rebbes.

Future demographics ensure that the licensing and education authorities are going to have amend their courses to cater for Haredim.

And the Haredim are going to have to make English and mathematics a part of their core curriculum, which they don't at the moment, making them largely unemployable in these fields!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

A birth curve is not a straight line. It suddenly exponentially takes off dramatically!

Yes but people with low birthrates don't magically disappear.   You are not speaking mathematically.

And certainly the low birthrate people won't disappear when they are the demographic in control of the apparatus of state.   They will do everything in their power to maintain themselves and their vice grip on all aspects of Israeli society, including importing more goyim if necessary, destroying the entire Dati Leumi camp, and creating a Muslim Arab Fakestinian Terrorist state (think, the british palestine mandate methods for how that benefits them).   

[wonga66]

The Erev Rav who control secular Israel get on just fine with the eminently bribable Erev Ze'ir who currently control Haredi Israel!

Both though would rather liquidate the State and their populations, rather than see Kahanism (ie true Torah) take over.

That is the definition and very purpose of the Erev Rav & Erev Zei'r, as explained by the Vilna Gaon: to keep the Moshiach ben David, the Moshiach ben Yosef, and the Jewish heartland of Judea & Samaria, permanently separated!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Educate the young Jews of Israel about science, rational thought, and the Enlightenment and point out to them the works of Baruch Spinoza and Adam Smith to prevent this. No special treatment for people who don't want to act like they actually live in today's world.

Adam Smith?   What does that have to do with anything?   I'm a big believer in free market economy, yet I also believe strongly in religious Jews having as many kids as is feasibly and practically possible.    How does Adam Smith prevent a Jew from being haredi?   Ridiculous.

As to spinoza, except for one philosophically inclined, I fail to see how it's of value to go out of your way to teach his works.   Spinoza is not giving over mathematics or a hard science or a trade that is important to make a living or to understand life in general or how the world works - it's simply a philosophy where he reformed the Jewish ideas.  People who appreciate philosophy and how that which is in line with Torah is unique from the secular/non-Jewish or heretical philosophy (in Spinoza's case) can delve into that.   My rabbi does!  And he is haredi and Baruch Hashem he has many children.   It's an honor and a pleasure to learn with such a tremendous gaon as my rabbi.    

I await your reply.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

The Erev Rav who control secular Israel get on just fine with the eminently bribable Erev Ze'ir who currently control Haredi Israel!

Both though would rather liquidate the State and their populations, rather than see Kahanism (ie true Torah) take over.

That is the definition and very purpose of the Erev Rav & Erev Zei'r, as explained by the Vilna Gaon: to keep the Moshiach ben David, the Moshiach ben Yosef, and the Jewish heartland of Judea & Samaria, permanently separated!

Would you be willing to explain to me what these two terms I have bolded mean?  By liquidate the state do you mean bringing Israel into a state of non-existence and the decimation of the population? -- [I'm sorry if I misinterpret, if so please correct me] -- And why would these two Erev camps be so opposed to Kahanism they would seek the destruction of the state, or whatever liquidation means, to occur rather than letting Israel be a Torah state?  To what purpose would any Jew not desire to have our Moshiach come?  I have my suspicious and I am always a bit skeptical towards secular Jews, but I am interested in what you have to say.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

A birth curve is not a straight line. It suddenly exponentially takes off dramatically!

Yes but people with low birthrates don't magically disappear.   You are not speaking mathematically.

And certainly the low birthrate people won't disappear when they are the demographic in control of the apparatus of state.   They will do everything in their power to maintain themselves and their vice grip on all aspects of Israeli society, including importing more goyim if necessary, destroying the entire Dati Leumi camp, and creating a Muslim Arab Fakestinian Terrorist state (think, the british palestine mandate methods for how that benefits them).   

Importing more goyim just to spite the will of the Jewish people is a morbid thought.  G-d forbid it ever happens.  Do secular Jews truly hate religious Jews who want to be governed by more traditional Jewish values [this is what the Dati Leumi are, yes?] that much that they would turn Israel into basically a non-Jewish state?  If so, why do you think that reason is?  What can good Jews do to remove the powers that be from control before they have a chance to do any of what may happen as you see?

[Ben m]

A birth curve is not a straight line. It suddenly exponentially takes off dramatically!

Yes but people with low birthrates don't magically disappear.   You are not speaking mathematically.

And certainly the low birthrate people won't disappear when they are the demographic in control of the apparatus of state.   They will do everything in their power to maintain themselves and their vice grip on all aspects of Israeli society, including importing more goyim if necessary, destroying the entire Dati Leumi camp, and creating a Muslim Arab Fakestinian Terrorist state (think, the british palestine mandate methods for how that benefits them).   

Importing more goyim just to spite the will of the Jewish people is a morbid thought.  G-d forbid it ever happens.  Do secular Jews truly hate religious Jews who want to be governed by more traditional Jewish values [this is what the Dati Leumi are, yes?] that much that they would turn Israel into basically a non-Jewish state?  If so, why do you think that reason is?  What can good Jews do to remove the powers that be from control before they have a chance to do any of what may happen as you see?

i don't have problems with the religious zionists orthe moderate haredim.but i will have a real problem with most of the haredim in israel that are evading taxes and don't serve in the army.and this is also the opinion of the majority of the secular israelis.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

A birth curve is not a straight line. It suddenly exponentially takes off dramatically!

Yes but people with low birthrates don't magically disappear.   You are not speaking mathematically.

And certainly the low birthrate people won't disappear when they are the demographic in control of the apparatus of state.   They will do everything in their power to maintain themselves and their vice grip on all aspects of Israeli society, including importing more goyim if necessary, destroying the entire Dati Leumi camp, and creating a Muslim Arab Fakestinian Terrorist state (think, the british palestine mandate methods for how that benefits them).   

Importing more goyim just to spite the will of the Jewish people is a morbid thought.  G-d forbid it ever happens.  Do secular Jews truly hate religious Jews who want to be governed by more traditional Jewish values [this is what the Dati Leumi are, yes?] that much that they would turn Israel into basically a non-Jewish state?  If so, why do you think that reason is?  What can good Jews do to remove the powers that be from control before they have a chance to do any of what may happen as you see?

They are willing to do anything to stay in power.   It's not "secular Jews" in general, it's the Israeli regime and the leftist apparatus.   Many secular Jews are simply zionists.   It's the regime that seeks to bolster its own power with every last breath and will do anything it takes, including destroying the entire dati leumi societies, including compromising on suicidal retreats from the homeland and handing over money power and arms to terrorists.  Thus the expulsion from Aza, the coming/intended expulsions from Yosh (Lo alenu), and the daily destruction of outposts, shuls, farms, etc in Yosh.    The Dati Leumi are more of a threat than the haredim because the dati leumi aspire to national prominence and involvement in leadership and all fields.   The haredim laregly sit on the sidelines and thus pose no threat to the establishment.

The "rabim" don't understand most of these issues and simply complain about haredi this and haredi that, yet they fail to see what the establishment surely understands is that politically the haredi society is in the pockets and in the control of the regime and to the regime's benefit.  So all the laborites, kadimaites, likudniks, etc etc should be thanking the haredim.

[wonga66]

In the early 90s when 1 million ex-Soviets were quickly imported in to Israel, and complaints were made that 80% were not Halachically Jewish, and that of them 25% had no Jewish blood in them at all, the verminous Yossi Sarid said that they made "a good antidote to the Haredim by setting off their numbers!". The same Yossi Sarid who is advocating importing immediately at least 1 million plain Ethiopian Blacks in to Israel!



Rather than see Kahanists take power, both Chillonim and Haredim would literally end the Medina: it goes that deep! "The war against the Erev Rav is more important and more dangerous than that of the war against Esau & Ishmael: the Geulah depends on it" (Vilna Gaon).


"At the time of a Kahanist Government, any Jewish traitors will be executed immediately!" (Chaim's former r.h. man, Yosef ben Meir z"l 2002).