Huckabee and Daniels feud over abortion and homosexual "marriage"

[Dr. Dan]

Side topic--I hate the faggots as much as anyone else here, but I don't quite buy it that it is the very worst of sins. I don't see how it is worse than adultery or sleeping around in general. Adultery is also punishable by death. The latter two things (esp. regular old fornication) are much more common than homosexuality and I think G-d hates them just as much.

Excellent point, DBF.

[nessuno]

If it is clear beyond any semblance of reason that the father raped the mother, society should make sure this creature never again has the opportunity to reproduce in the future.  Also legally persecuting homosexuals will only result in further corruption and the creation of  evil of people like Roy Cohn.  Despite what anyone on this forum wants to believe, sexual attraction is not a voluntary conscious choice.  Oppressing people who have this desire is not going to eradicate it, it will only lead to more suicides and disharmony.       

JTFe2 I think you're right.  Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted.  They should be encouraged to control their behavior.  Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.

Exactly.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

JTFe2 I think you're right.  Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted.  They should be encouraged to control their behavior.

True.

Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.

How is that a "natural inclination"?

[JTFenthusiast2]

C4J: in regards to rape...I believe that after a woman is raped she should go straight to take "Plan B" which is a hormone that will prevent fertilization...Not wait and see if she gets pregnant.

ben i like you as you know, but i am against your position on abortion.

Have you seen the video of aborted babies, trust me, if you showed that video before the lady was going to have the abortion, i bet you 90 percent of the girls wouldnt go through it.


Did you know in the uk babies have survied and have grown up to be healthy at being born at 20 weeks? Abortions are murder. If you are into science then soon as the sperm meets the egg by scientific terms its a human being. Its meets the 4 phases criteria of life, and the full dna is formed for the rest of the babies body.


i have heard poor arguements such as rape. Do people forget its not that easy to get pregnant, and its pretty rare you are going to get raped. So you Cannot form a arguement on something that forms 0.000000000000000001 percent of abortions. Lets face it, its now a form of contraception.

I agree with mike huckabee on this very important issue, G-d bless him...

It prevents implantation.


The anti-dentite

 

[Dr. Dan]

JTFe2 I think you're right.  Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted.  They should be encouraged to control their behavior.

True.

Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.

How is that a "natural inclination"?

Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals.  Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon.  Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice.  The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex.  Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have.  I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.  

Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.  

And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage.  And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.

So for us, it is equal in a sense.  A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts.  To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do.  If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that.  It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.

[Dr. Dan]

thanks for the correction JTFe2..

So it doesn't prevent fertilization?

C4J: in regards to rape...I believe that after a woman is raped she should go straight to take "Plan B" which is a hormone that will prevent fertilization...Not wait and see if she gets pregnant.

ben i like you as you know, but i am against your position on abortion.

Have you seen the video of aborted babies, trust me, if you showed that video before the lady was going to have the abortion, i bet you 90 percent of the girls wouldnt go through it.


Did you know in the uk babies have survied and have grown up to be healthy at being born at 20 weeks? Abortions are murder. If you are into science then soon as the sperm meets the egg by scientific terms its a human being. Its meets the 4 phases criteria of life, and the full dna is formed for the rest of the babies body.


i have heard poor arguements such as rape. Do people forget its not that easy to get pregnant, and its pretty rare you are going to get raped. So you Cannot form a arguement on something that forms 0.000000000000000001 percent of abortions. Lets face it, its now a form of contraception.

I agree with mike huckabee on this very important issue, G-d bless him...

It prevents implantation.


The anti-dentite

 

[TheCoon]

It's already legitimized by the government. That's the point I'm trying to make.

The governments are evil and we should never compromise and be unrelenting when it comes down to accepting or promoting evil behavior.  When the govt looks away from Gd, then bad things happen.

Secondly, while this generation is all fine with homosexuality and stuff, what will come of the next generation?  Accepting of pedophilia, beastiality, Gd forbid? 

You're talking in things that might happen. We might as a society become more accepting of bestiality/pedophila. What's a guarantee is that the country is going to implode on itself if it doesn't give up socialism and run its finances responsibly. There won't be a government left standing to dictate Bible morality if we don't fix the economy for good.

What's happening now in America is no different than what the Jews of Israel did by letting in the Romans. America is selling itself to evil nations like China and the arabs. That's who is buying all of America's debt.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Dr Dan,

Thank you for your sensitive and accurate portrayal of this struggle.  

As for my flirting with anti-dentitism lol, the egg has been fertilized, the additional hormones prevent the implantation of the several celled fetus, thus it is expelled.  At this point no differentiation has occurred.  Also to C4Js point a 20 week old fetus can ABSOLUTELY NOT survive outside the woman.  These poor creatures cannot survive at 26 or 27 weeks without some later neurocognitive impairment.  I have seen fetuses at 19-20 weeks out side of the womb in cases of miscarriage.  It is awful, I would never recommend seeing something like that.  There is no way to save those babies, none...saving them doesnt worl and they are tortured with endless blood draws, needle p r ic ks (wont let me spell this normally???)   AND THEY DONT LIVE.  Their lungs cannot support them even with artificial surfactant.  I could go on but I wont

Incidently Dr. D, I love my dentist, he is the best, does a great job, lots of novicaine, I will miss the guy when I move..and funny!

[Dr. Dan]

It's true that the economy and socialism should be a primary concern for this country. However, I believe that if we do what's good in Gd's "eyes", both of those things will go hand in hand.   That's how much faith I have in Gd.  This country lacks direction, patriotism, and religion and if we have these three things, the economy will get better and the socialism will become hated.  People will wake up and want to improve everything. Because this country lacks morality, people are less inclined to believe in anything and therefore everything suffers.

It's already legitimized by the government. That's the point I'm trying to make.

The governments are evil and we should never compromise and be unrelenting when it comes down to accepting or promoting evil behavior.  When the govt looks away from Gd, then bad things happen.

Secondly, while this generation is all fine with homosexuality and stuff, what will come of the next generation?  Accepting of pedophilia, beastiality, Gd forbid? 

You're talking in things that might happen. We might as a society become more accepting of bestiality/pedophila. What's a guarantee is that the country is going to implode on itself if it doesn't give up socialism and run its finances responsibly. There won't be a government left standing to dictate Bible morality if we don't fix the economy for good.

What's happening now in America is no different than what the Jews of Israel did by letting in the Romans. America is selling itself to evil nations like China and the arabs. That's who is buying all of America's debt.

[Dr. Dan]

JTFe2

I also appreciate your cooperation in explaining to me something I understood from a limited perspective in regards to homosexuality.  I never knew how to put morality together with homosexuality, but you helped me understand that it is a biological thing..and the morality part like any biological thing, is controlling that behavior..and it is no different than if it were a straight man who wanted to be with lots of women.  What stinks for a  homosexual man is that he is probably more likely to be destined to be alone than a straight man who can marry one woman and stay happy.

As far as Plan B, some orthodox rabbis, as far as I have heard have permitted its use in case of rape, Gd forbid.  I think otherwise, while I hate to say this and believe it, but have to accept it, is that in Judaism, one cannot abort if she has been raped...it doesn't sound fair, I know, and I still struggle with this point of view.

Dr Dan,

Thank you for your sensitive and accurate portrayal of this struggle.  

As for my flirting with anti-dentitism lol, the egg has been fertilized, the additional hormones prevent the implantation of the several celled fetus, thus it is expelled.  At this point no differentiation has occurred.  Also to C4Js point a 20 week old fetus can ABSOLUTELY NOT survive outside the woman.  These poor creatures cannot survive at 26 or 27 weeks without some later neurocognitive impairment.  I have seen fetuses at 19-20 weeks out side of the womb in cases of miscarriage.  It is awful, I would never recommend seeing something like that.  There is no way to save those babies, none...saving them doesnt worl and they are tortured with endless blood draws, needle p r ic ks (wont let me spell this normally???)   AND THEY DONT LIVE.  Their lungs cannot support them even with artificial surfactant.  I could go on but I wont

Incidently Dr. D, I love my dentist, he is the best, does a great job, lots of novicaine, I will miss the guy when I move..and funny!

[Rubystars]

Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.

[Ben m]

Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.

even when this ''baby'' is nothing more than a few cells?

[Rubystars]

Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.

even when this ''baby'' is nothing more than a few cells?

Once the pregnancy has begun (the embryo has implanted) then it should not be terminated, except in very unique circumstances such as an ectopic pregnancy which would kill the mother. I also don't like the idea of Plan B completely either but I know I would use it if something like that happened to me so how could I condemn someone else for using it?

[Dr. Dan]

Ben, even a few cells is life.

IN Judaism, abortion is only permitted with the mother is going to die during birth.  Otherwise, it's not permitted.

Plan B is a medication that can be taken after rape to prevent the fetus from "implanting" into the womb.  Some Orthodox allow its use if there is a rape.

Now, if it is an evil person or a savage, some people on JTF might think abortions shouldn't be outlawed for them. In fact, some of us might not mind a program to pay them to have abortions...

Why is this?  Because abortions are permitted under Jewish law if the fetus is a "rodef". And if it is our enemies, some might argue that the fetus of that evil family from that evil nation is also a rodef.

Plan B is not an abortion. I think it's acceptable. I've heard most fertilized eggs do not implant anyway. I think Plan B should be taken after someone is raped to prevent a pregnancy. However once a pregnancy has begun I don't think it's right to abort the growing baby at any stage of development.

even when this ''baby'' is nothing more than a few cells?

[Zionist Revolutionary]

JTFe2 I think you're right.  Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted.  They should be encouraged to control their behavior.

True.

Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.

How is that a "natural inclination"?

Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals.  Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon.  Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice.  The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex.  Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have.  I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.  

Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.  

And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage.  And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.

So for us, it is equal in a sense.  A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts.  To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do.  If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that.  It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.

Dan, homosexual inclination may not be a choice, but that doesn't mean its an inborn trait or biological. There are psychological issues at work here, but you didn't even mention them. Not that you would be able to say much about it if you did, because studies on how homosexuality comes to be from a psychological perspective are practically non-existent. Such a study on this would be immediately condemned by all the usual suspects (APA, homosexual groups, liberal groups, etc).

Sexual characteristics are not social constructs. A man and woman are separated by more than body parts. Brain chemicals, natural instinct, these attributes separate the sexes.

[briann]

There is another aspect of this.  Americans overwhelmingly do NOT support redefining marriage.  Even in Leftist California.  if the GOP believes that the government should over rule the will of the people, than the GOP has lost its populist appeal, and it becomes just another elitist party that doesnt beleive that ordinary people should have a say.

[Dr. Dan]

JTFe2 I think you're right.  Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted.  They should be encouraged to control their behavior.

True.

Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.

How is that a "natural inclination"?

Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals.  Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon.  Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice.  The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex.  Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have.  I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.  

Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.  

And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage.  And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.

So for us, it is equal in a sense.  A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts.  To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do.  If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that.  It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.

Dan, homosexual inclination may not be a choice, but that doesn't mean its an inborn trait or biological. There are psychological issues at work here, but you didn't even mention them. Not that you would be able to say much about it if you did, because studies on how homosexuality comes to be from a psychological perspective are practically non-existent. Such a study on this would be immediately condemned by all the usual suspects (APA, homosexual groups, liberal groups, etc).

Sexual characteristics are not social constructs. A man and woman are separated by more than body parts. Brain chemicals, natural instinct, these attributes separate the sexes.

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. I never said it was genetic nor inborn. I simply stated Biological.  What I meant by biological was the chemicals or hormones or who knows that cause this to happen in SOME homosexuals.  It's bizarre actually because I have spoken with a few homosexuals and the homosexual men feel attracted to men the same or very similar way women are attracted to men...It's something SOME of them can't help nor have a "choice" of being. It's easy for you and me to say, "Yes you have free will you have a choice."  But the the only choice they have is to either act upon what's natural to them or to hold it back...and if they can hold it back and be good at it, then the choice can become thinking about it or not thinking about it...and once they don't think about it, can they be with woman and like it?  I don't have any answers for these things.  All I can say is that we should praise homosexuals who don't act upon their desires, embrace them, and help them go the right way if they can help themselves.  The ones we should hate are the one who unabashadly act upon doing evil and being proud of it and encouraging everyone else it's ok.

[briann]

JTFe2 I think you're right.  Homosexuals shouldn't be persecuted.  They should be encouraged to control their behavior.

True.

Controlling feelings is up to that person since in many homosexuals it is a natural inclination and not a choice.

How is that a "natural inclination"?

Ron, I'm not sure with your experiences of knowing many homosexuals.  Of course what I'm about to say might be very common or very uncommon.  Some homosexuals are actually not that way by choice.  The physical attraction they have with the same sex is like the way we feel about people of the opposite sex.  Mentally and behaviorally, a gay man has no attraction to woman, but a strong attraction to a man like some women might have.  I think there can be a biological thing that no one has yet figured out or have been able to pin point where it comes from and even how to "cure" it.  

Now with this all being said, even if it were a biological inclination, it doesn't make it appropriate to do homosexual behavior and in our religion, very immoral.  

And the same goes with straight men who have a natural and normal in the animal kingdom to biologically spread their sperm to every woman they see, but is also immoral to do that outside of marriage.  And even though it is a straight man's biological inclination to have sex with lots of women, he is required in our religion to control it.

So for us, it is equal in a sense.  A truly homosexual man who naturally feels the way he does should not do homosexual acts.  To correct his way of thinking and attraction goes beyond what you or me can ever do.  If a truly homosexual man wanted to marry a woman and be like a straight man, it is only in his power with Gd's help that he can do that.  It's not impossible, but I'm sure extremely difficult.

Dan, homosexual inclination may not be a choice, but that doesn't mean its an inborn trait or biological. There are psychological issues at work here, but you didn't even mention them. Not that you would be able to say much about it if you did, because studies on how homosexuality comes to be from a psychological perspective are practically non-existent. Such a study on this would be immediately condemned by all the usual suspects (APA, homosexual groups, liberal groups, etc).

Sexual characteristics are not social constructs. A man and woman are separated by more than body parts. Brain chemicals, natural instinct, these attributes separate the sexes.

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me. I never said it was genetic nor inborn. I simply stated Biological.  What I meant by biological was the chemicals or hormones or who knows that cause this to happen in SOME homosexuals.  It's bizarre actually because I have spoken with a few homosexuals and the homosexual men feel attracted to men the same or very similar way women are attracted to men...It's something SOME of them can't help nor have a "choice" of being. It's easy for you and me to say, "Yes you have free will you have a choice."  But the the only choice they have is to either act upon what's natural to them or to hold it back...and if they can hold it back and be good at it, then the choice can become thinking about it or not thinking about it...and once they don't think about it, can they be with woman and like it?  I don't have any answers for these things.  All I can say is that we should praise homosexuals who don't act upon their desires, embrace them, and help them go the right way if they can help themselves.  The ones we should hate are the one who unabashadly act upon doing evil and being proud of it and encouraging everyone else it's ok.

To me i say, who cares!?!?!?  Maybe its a mixture of nature versus nurture, Im not an expert on homosexuality, but regardless, that shouldnt justify re-defining marriage.  Why must advocates focus on this?

What about Polygamy or intergenerational marriage? (Legal in a couple states).  Maybe there is a 'nature' component to that as well, but who cares?  does that mean anything that we can redifine marriage to any type of union where there is a component of the attraction, that is not from our environment, upbringing?  I just dont like this logic.

[Dr. Dan]

Marriage is between one man and one woman and it is a holy thing.  Anything else that isn't holy can't be marriage.