Britain - BNP Councillor: “about 300,000 people died in the Jewish Holocaust”

[Hyades]

22-05-2010 / Britain
Britain - BNP Councillor: “about 300,000 people died in the Jewish Holocaust”

Steve BatkinThe Nothing British about the BNP group revealed this ugly photograph, showing Stoke on Trent’s first BNP councilor, Steve Batkin, posing in front a war memorial.

Batkin is on the far right of the photograph. (Any pun here is entirely accidental. Besides, you can see in the photograph that from Batkin’s perspective, the three men with stiff arms are all to his right.)

Now, local Stoke on Trent news blog, Pits n Pots has interviewed Batkin about the photograph and also about his views on the Holocaust. The interview may be read in full here and a very easy to use audio link is given at the foot of the article. On the photograph, he had this to say:

The people in the Photograph, although they are genuine patriotic people, I believe their strategy is wrong…It was a risk, which has certainly backfired on me

When asked if he was a Holocaust denier, Batkin showed rather less political insight.
I’ve always believed about 300,000 people died in the Jewish Holocaust, not 6 million.
 

The interviewer very calmly asks Batkin what he bases this upon. Batkin replies

I have read quite a lot about European history, about the second world war, and although I realise a lot of Jews died, in my opinion there’s no way there was that many Jews in Europe at that point in time which could have possibly sustained that amount of deaths.
Batkin serves as a School Governor in two Stoke on Trent Schools, Edensor Technical College and Mitchel High School. Perhaps he can arrange to attend some history classes.

Source: http://www.thecst.org.ukblog/
By Mark Gardner


 

[mord]

You know this is funny look here orthodox Batkins with the husband named Steve in the U.S.

                          http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/12982/jewish/Batkin-Annette.htm   









Annette Batkin, a graduate of Carnegie-Mellon University, now works in fine arts as a sculptor and photographer. Married for 30 amazing years to Steve Batkin, both are active in their community and local Chabad in Greenwich, CT. Their two sons - Adam, living with his wife in Scotland as leaders of a Jewish community, and Aaron, a student in Mayanot Yeshiva of Jerusalem – bring them constant joy and pride.

[Yaakov Mendel]

I am not surprised.
Almost all of the European far right is virulently antisemitic. In France, the "Front National" is a bunch of Nazi pigs who, by the way, support Muslims against America and Israel, which is not a coincidence. The only exception is Geert Wilders (although I don't know very well the profiles of the members of his movement).

[Spiraling Leopard]

PVV is all pro-Israel, unless there would be some infiltrant, which could be anybody.

[briann]

If the BNP does not fire him and make an example of him, there will be a huge backlash, and they will lose any and all legitmacy.

from another blog regarding his nazi saulte:

Michael Coleman the BNP’s leader in Stoke has said he won’t fire Batkin because the photo’s were taken a long time ago. Perhaps they will reconsider this now that he has failed to provide a sufficient defence for his actions and has shown his true beliefs on the Holocaust.

I think thats and understatement.  I always hated how the GOP took their sweet time removing fossils like David Duke from their ranks.  If the BNP doesnt remove any and all traces of Naziism and Jew-hatred from their evil past, they will revert back to a fringe wacko group with no support.

[Masha]

Frankly, I don't like the way the Holocaust is held like a hammer over people's heads. I think that it's enough if BNP takes some distance from his views.

To me there is one and only one test of righteousness - the attitude towards Israel's right to exist. Does the BNP agree with Israel's right to exist? Yes, they sure do.

Things like worshipping the Holocaust - it's like joining the liberals in their victimary rhetoric. We are the biggest victims! No, we, we are the biggest victims! I personally am not proud that my ancestors were slaughtered like sheep. This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

[Yaakov Mendel]

Frankly, I don't like the way the Holocaust is held like a hammer over people's heads. I think that it's enough if BNP takes some distance from his views.

To me there is one and only one test of righteousness - the attitude towards Israel's right to exist. Does the BNP agree with Israel's right to exist? Yes, they sure do.

Things like worshipping the Holocaust - it's like joining the liberals in their victimary rhetoric. We are the biggest victims! No, we, we are the biggest victims! I personally am not proud that my ancestors were slaughtered like sheep. This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

Frankly, what you say about our brothers and sisters who were murdered by the Nazis is disgusting and repulsive. Most of them did not have any possibility to fight. They did not have a strong military like the Israelis to defend themselves. How could they take on the killing machine of the Nazis when they had no weapons ? Furthermore, there were several heroic uprisings and actions of resistance. I guess you have never heard of the Warsaw Ghetto.
My ancestors died in dignity, with God in their hearts, hugging their children, while they were totally abandoned by the rest of the world, including by their fellow Jews outside Europe.
How dare you say they went into the ovens willingly ? 
You disgust me and the repulsion is made even stronger by the fact you are a Jew. I feel absolutely no ahavat israel for you. Actually, I just wish that I could punch you. That's right, go and join neo-Nazis, you are one of them.

[muman613]

Masha,

I agree with Yaakov that your statement is totally preposterous. The fact is "NEVER AGAIN" must be the motto of the Jews moving forward. We cannot forget those whose lives were sacrificed. This is not waving the Holocaust for any purpose other than making sure that the Jews will never be in a position again to be subjected to this inhumane treatment.

The fact is that it seems the world has not learned the lesson. There are those who try to lessen the evil which was perpetrated, and others who deny it happened entirely. I do not go around as a victim, but I will always stand up against the Nazis and those who seek to minimize the evil which the Germans perpetrated against the Jews.

Any political party which has even a trace of antisemitic nazi ideology must be exposed and thrown in the trash bin of history.

[Hyades]

Frankly, I don't like the way the Holocaust is held like a hammer over people's heads. I think that it's enough if BNP takes some distance from his views.

To me there is one and only one test of righteousness - the attitude towards Israel's right to exist. Does the BNP agree with Israel's right to exist? Yes, they sure do.

Things like worshipping the Holocaust - it's like joining the liberals in their victimary rhetoric. We are the biggest victims! No, we, we are the biggest victims! I personally am not proud that my ancestors were slaughtered like sheep. This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

In the ovens willingly!!??? Are you kidding? What else should they have done? Most Jews who were deported to concentration camps actually hoped they would leave it after some time. Just as they were inside they realized the possibility of leaving them alive was 99% negative!
And with WHAT should they have fought? Jews were declared an enemy almost overnight and had no chance to organise a resistence or weapons. The SS controlled basically everything and it was not possible for anyone in the country to do anything without them knowing! No one could trust anyone, everyone could be an informer or a traitor.
Most Jews hoped for improivement of their situation they did not fight also because I am sure most of them didn't even understand what was going on.
The way you talk about them is shocking and honestly lacks respect for their lives.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

In the ovens willingly!!??? Are you kidding? What else should they have done?

Not vote for Hitler in the first place and fight like lions, even die, die like men and not be slaughtered like sheep.
Though it's impossible to judge them.

[Hyades]

In the ovens willingly!!??? Are you kidding? What else should they have done?

Not vote for Hitler in the first place and fight like lions, even die, die like men and not be slaughtered like sheep.
Though it's impossible to judge them.

They had no crystal balls telling them the future!

[Yaakov Mendel]

This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

fight like lions, even die, die like men and not be slaughtered like sheep

So, here we have a big holocaust denial statement ("300,000 people died in the Jewish Holocaust"), but that doesn't upset you...
Instead, you spit at the memory of the Jewish people in the most despicable manner.
And you are « Master JTFers ».
Unbelievable...

[Rightist2]

In the ovens willingly!!??? Are you kidding? What else should they have done?

Not vote for Hitler in the first place and fight like lions, even die, die like men and not be slaughtered like sheep.
Though it's impossible to judge them.

Jewish patriots did resist the Nazis. Have people forgotten the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Frankly, I don't like the way the Holocaust is held like a hammer over people's heads. I think that it's enough if BNP takes some distance from his views.

To me there is one and only one test of righteousness - the attitude towards Israel's right to exist. Does the BNP agree with Israel's right to exist? Yes, they sure do.

Things like worshipping the Holocaust - it's like joining the liberals in their victimary rhetoric. We are the biggest victims! No, we, we are the biggest victims! I personally am not proud that my ancestors were slaughtered like sheep. This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

Acknowledging the fact that it took place is "worshipping" the holocaust?

Acknowledging and accepting the fact that 6 million Jews were murdered is "worshipping" the holocaust?

Suspecting anyone who does not accept the above facts (denying them for any supposed "reason" ) really wants 6 million more Jews to die - is "worshipping" the holocaust?   Or simply employing common sense?

No, they cannot erase our history.   Neither can they erase the history of Eretz Yisrael.   And you better believe that the people who would erase something from 70 years ago will surely erase what happened 2000 years ago and beyond, in a heartbeat.  If they take power, they will join right in the "palestine" chorus.  Don't be blind.  And don't "worship" the BNP party just because it claims to be anti-muslim.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I personally am not proud that my ancestors were slaughtered like sheep. This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

History shows that some did fight.  So you are either ignorant of history or ignoring it.

For the masses who did not fight but were actually in a position where they could have (say in numbers when being rounded into a certain place for imminent murder), in most cases they DID NOT KNOW what was being done to them because they were deceived.  The nazis knew that it would not work without deception because no one is going to walk into his grave willingly.    If the Jews were so passive, why did the Nazis have to deceive them all the way from the ghetto (including kapo traitors) to the cattle cars to the gas chambers?   They wouldn't have needed any deception if what you said was true.    Your attitude is skewed.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

In the ovens willingly!!??? Are you kidding? What else should they have done?

Not vote for Hitler in the first place and fight like lions, even die, die like men and not be slaughtered like sheep.
Though it's impossible to judge them.

Vote for him?  What are you talking about?

Maybe if they knew they were being slaughtered things would have been different.  This underlies the entire Kastner controversy!  The assumption is clearly that things would have been different and several of the justices on the case expressed that.

[Rightist2]

Im wary of the BNP. I dont think they are genuine in their supposed hostility to Islam. I cannot forget that in the 1980's they sought funding from Libya. Also I know for a fact that the BNP (then called the National Front / NF) collected money from the Iranian embassy in the 1980's. Khomeini was all to willing to oblige their begging in a common alliance against Israel and the Jewish people.

For all I know they may still be collecting money from Iran. Their organisation seems to be very well funded and yet strangely they cannot account for the source of their funds.

Look here: and

Dont underestimate how clever the Iranians are. These BNP types were in attendance at Tehran's mockery of the Holocaust, as was David Duke and Neteurei Karta. Money and funding would definitely have been discussed in a side room, as well as a strategy against Israel. They practice assymetrical warfare.

[Masha]

Frankly, I don't like the way the Holocaust is held like a hammer over people's heads. I think that it's enough if BNP takes some distance from his views.

To me there is one and only one test of righteousness - the attitude towards Israel's right to exist. Does the BNP agree with Israel's right to exist? Yes, they sure do.

Things like worshipping the Holocaust - it's like joining the liberals in their victimary rhetoric. We are the biggest victims! No, we, we are the biggest victims! I personally am not proud that my ancestors were slaughtered like sheep. This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

Frankly, what you say about our brothers and sisters who were murdered by the Nazis is disgusting and repulsive. Most of them did not have any possibility to fight. They did not have a strong military like the Israelis to defend themselves. How could they take on the killing machine of the Nazis when they had no weapons ? Furthermore, there were several heroic uprisings and actions of resistance. I guess you have never heard of the Warsaw Ghetto.
My ancestors died in dignity, with G-d in their hearts, hugging their children, while they were totally abandoned by the rest of the world, including by their fellow Jews outside Europe.
How dare you say they went into the ovens willingly ? 
You disgust me and the repulsion is made even stronger by the fact you are a Jew. I feel absolutely no ahavat israel for you. Actually, I just wish that I could punch you. That's right, go and join neo-Nazis, you are one of them.

yaakov, you are a new person on the forum, you don't know me, you don't know my views. What you say to me, a Jewish Zionist patriot, taking my views out of context, is preposterous. Yes, you can punch a woman, a virtual interlocutor. Would you be so brave to punch a nazi who is leading you to your death?

What I have said is not something unusual or even conteroversial. Many Jewish patriots have said the same thing before me. There was often a handful of soldiers leading Jews to slaughter. Had all Jews in the procession thrown themselves onto their executioners at the same time, then surely they would have managed to kill some of them. They would have died, but, at least, they would have taken some of the enemies with them.

Don't you all see that when you allow yourselves to be defined by the Holocaust, you have already been coopted and corrupted by the liberal mindset? Don't you see that by postulating the Holocaust as the most defining and important event in Jewish history, you are playing on the playfield of the enemy? I HATE to be known as the victim of the Holocaust. I want to be known as a person who belongs to the race of fierce and awe-insipring, undefeatable warriors.

Holocaust is history. But the people who kvetch the most about it happen to be American Jews, whom it has passed by, and not those, like me, who have lost most of their family. I want to focus the Jewish zeal on the future, on the defence of Israel. There are 2 things I require from a person in order not to label him as an enemy. 1) to declare his unequivocal support for the right of Israel to exist (no qualifiers); 2) to deny any and all support to Israel's enemies - and that includes verbal support, money, goods, weapons, whether sold or given.

[Aces High]

Frankly, I don't like the way the Holocaust is held like a hammer over people's heads. I think that it's enough if BNP takes some distance from his views.

To me there is one and only one test of righteousness - the attitude towards Israel's right to exist. Does the BNP agree with Israel's right to exist? Yes, they sure do.

Things like worshipping the Holocaust - it's like joining the liberals in their victimary rhetoric. We are the biggest victims! No, we, we are the biggest victims! I personally am not proud that my ancestors were slaughtered like sheep. This is not a proud page out of the Jewish history. I wish they had fought like lions and didn't go into the ovens willingly.

What you've said is vile!  And probably the dumbest thing I've ever read as well.  Let's put you in a concentration camp and see how well you do.  We'll see what kind of lion you are.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Don't you all see that when you allow yourselves to be defined by the Holocaust, you have already been coopted and corrupted by the liberal mindset?

In what way would it be "defining oneself by the holocaust" to state simply that anyone denying the plain, known, documented facts of what happened is not only a hateful nutcase but also wants to perpetrate another holocaust?  And to align oneself with such modern-day nazis who view Jews with such venomous hate (which is the only thing that can lead to such irrational ahistorical and false statements) - how exactly does such an act defining oneself?  Surely not positively.

Don't you see that by postulating the Holocaust as the most defining and important event in Jewish history...

I don't think anyone did that here.

People are simply using as a litmus test the idea that if someone DENIES that what took place actually took place, it means they have a special hatred just for us and want to repeat what actually took place.   To be against such a political group is not postulating the holocaust as the most important or most anything.  It's simply common sense not to be allies with such a group and common sense to consider them evil.

I HATE to be known as the victim of the Holocaust. I want to be known as a person who belongs to the race of fierce and awe-insipring, undefeatable warriors.

Fierce, awe-inspiring, undefeatable warriors do not align with their enemies, and they do not give lipservice or suck up to those who spit on our past hoping to uproot us from our past and destroy us in the present and future.  In what way is it "awe-inspiring" when a person makes excuses for someone who is not only nuts but wishes to wipe out his 'fierce undefeatable warrior' class too?

Holocaust is history. But the people who kvetch the most about it happen to be American Jews, whom it has passed by, and not those, like me, who have lost most of their family. I want to focus the Jewish zeal on the future, on the defence of Israel. There are 2 things I require from a person in order not to label him as an enemy. 1) to declare his unequivocal support for the right of Israel to exist (no qualifiers);

If one says or claims this but really harbors utter disdain and hatred for Jews, they don't really mean the claim or what they say.   That is why people take strong issue with comments like this.  It reveals the deception.  No one who regards the Jewish warrior folk with such condescension could possibly support the rights of Israel (and the rights of the JEWISH People to Israel) especially not when push comes to shove.

2) to deny any and all support to Israel's enemies - and that includes verbal support, money, goods, weapons, whether sold or given.

About this last one, I was just curious. Do you consider the Israeli regime an enemy?

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

The only part of remembering the Holocaust I would like to see more emphasized is this.  We can't change the past, but we should condition ourselves for the future.  No more empty talk about "tolerance and multiculturalism"; Nazis deserve bullets and thats it.  When the war was over the remaining Nazis should have been gassed themselves and put in their own ovens. -- Fight fire with fire [a hotter fire].  "Two eyes for an eye.".

In the past, I've remarked to friends that the difference between a Jewish liberal and a Jewish conservative is that when a Jewish liberal walks out of the Holocaust Museum, he feels, "This shows why we need to have more tolerance and multiculturalism." The Jewish conservative feels, "We should have killed a lot more Nazis, and sooner." -- Phillip Klein

[Yaakov Mendel]

yaakov, you are a new person on the forum

Yes, I'm new, so what ? Does the fact that you are a MasterJTFer give you the right to say shameful things ? Although I am new, I suppose I am not wrong when I tell you this is a forum for Kahanists ? Well, I am certain Meir Kahane would have been appalled by your comments because Meir Kahane loved the Jewish people whereas the Jewish people is an embarrassment to you (judging by your comments on this thread).

About my reference to the "punches" : this was just to make you feel how outraged I was. But, yes, in general, I have no problem with punching. As a Kahanist, I am well aware that Jews must know how to defend themselves. I have been a regular practitioner of Krav-Maga and Muay Thai for a long time and I know how to fight (although I am not an expert in firearms).

For the rest, I don't have much to add besides what I already said and the very good contributions of Muman613, Hyades and Kahane-Was-Right (who are not new to this forum).

[muman613]

The Holocaust is still a very tender topic. Many people have family which was lost during that Churban. My family is so lucky to have avoided so much of the terror which befell my people in Europe in the 20th century. I don't know what happened to the remnants which remained in Poland and Ukraine... But I don't think they did well.

I think Yaakov is entitled to his feelings on this, as I too was offended by this. I realize it was intended to reflect on the liberal Jews who always cry about 'quote-unquote' 'nazis' on the right-wing. And the use of the term 'Holocaust' which is used to make people want more multicultural education, etc. etc.

But let us agree that there can be no acceptance of minimizing the horror which our parents witnessed.

http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
"Churban"  - (m., pl. "churbanot"); destruction; as in "The Holocaust made a terrible "churban" in the Jewish People."

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Yaakov Mendel, give me one reason not to consider you a troll. You bashed the Serbs and you expect us to take anything you say seriously?

[Yaakov Mendel]

I do not report to you. I do not owe you any justification.
I am not the only one who felt outraged by the comments made by Masha on this thread. Perhaps you also consider Muman613, Hyades Kahane-Was-Right and Aces High as "trolls" ?
And I never bashed the Serbs.