Kabbalah

[Ben m]

Zenith,

You have not studied any Kabbalah because nowhere does it say anything that Man is G-d... That is utterly ridiculous..

now do you see why we need science.you can be like G-d after a few years of scientifical development.

Scientists (and especially atheists) say so. Evolutionists (especially atheists) say we will evolve into perfect being that would live in harmony and hapiness (because of their state of evolution), muslims say that they will rule the earth soon enough, others say that their religion or philosophy will prevail soon, etc.
However, you cannot know until it happens, if it will ever happen.
Leaving beside the wishes and the fantasies, it is impossible to know if one will do the things you fantasize.
That because you can't know all the laws of the universe, and by this, how much it can limit technology advancements.

yes but we knew enough to know our limits in the near future (next 200 years).we would use gentical and cybertronic manipulation to improve ourselves,and combined with our control of nuclear energy we could cliam that this is the the begining or the end (depends on your view) of the human age.

[Zenith]

Kabbalah is not man trying to control G-d. It provides a means for understanding why things are the way they are. By understanding how Hashem interacts with this world we gain more understanding of him.

PS: You cannot accept everything that people are calling Kabbalah... The only site I have found which is good about Kabbalah is http://www.koshertorah.com

muman613, I don't know what the Kabbalah you learnt teaches, I talked about what I heard/read.
And tell me that what I quoted does not say what I stated: that it says that men are gods.

and, by the way, don't worry, there are many people enough who believe they are gods or will become gods one day (maybe if they submit themselves to some indoctrinations, getting to believe/understand some things, perform some rituals, etc.)

[muman613]

Kabbalah is not man trying to control G-d. It provides a means for understanding why things are the way they are. By understanding how Hashem interacts with this world we gain more understanding of him.

PS: You cannot accept everything that people are calling Kabbalah... The only site I have found which is good about Kabbalah is http://www.koshertorah.com

muman613, I don't know what the Kabbalah you learnt teaches, I talked about what I heard/read.
And tell me that what I quoted does not say what I stated: that it says that men are gods.

and, by the way, don't worry, there are many people enough who believe they are gods or will become gods one day (maybe if they submit themselves to some indoctrinations, getting to believe/understand some things, perform some rituals, etc.)

Then the 'Kabbalah' you learned was not Judaism. Judaism hold G-d as the ultimate power of which humanity can only know a piece of. We will never, until the moshiach comes, even have a simple understanding. Kabbalah attempts to understand Hashems interaction with the world.

The unjewish Kabbalah you are quoting is considered heresy to Judaism.

http://www.jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm

Kabbalah: The Misunderstood Doctrine

Kabbalah is one of the most grossly misunderstood parts of Judaism. I have received several messages from non-Jews describing Kabbalah as "the dark side of Judaism," describing it as evil or black magic. On the other end of the spectrum, I receive many messages wanting to learn more about the trendy doctrine popularized by various Jewish and non-Jewish celebrities.

These misunderstandings stem largely from the fact that the teachings of Kabbalah have been so badly distorted by mystics and occultists. Kabbalah was popular among Christian intellectuals during the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods, who reinterpreted its doctrines to fit into their Christian dogma. In more recent times, many have wrenched kabbalistic symbolism out of context for use in tarot card readings and other forms of divination and magic that were never a part of the original Jewish teachings. Today, many well-known celebrities have popularized a new age pop-psychology distortion of kabbalah (I have heard it derisively referred to as "crap-balah"). It borrows the language of kabbalah and the forms of Jewish folk superstitions, but at its heart it has more in common with the writings of Deepak Chopra than with any authentic Jewish source.

I do not mean to suggest that magic is not a part of Kabbalah. There are certainly many traditional Jewish stories that involve the use of hidden knowledge to affect the world in ways that could be described as magic. The Talmud and other sources ascribe supernatural activities to many great rabbis. Some rabbis pronounced a name of G-d and ascended into heaven to consult with the G-d and the angels on issues of great public concern. One scholar is said to have created an artificial man by reciting various names of G-d. Much later stories tell of a rabbi who created a man out of clay (a golem) and brought it to life by putting in its mouth a piece of paper with a name of G-d on it. However, this area of Kabbalah (if indeed it is more than mere legend) is not something that is practiced by the average Jew, or even the average rabbi. There are a number of stories that discourage the pursuit of such knowledge and power as dangerous and irresponsible. If you see any books on the subject of "practical kabbalah," you can safely dismiss them as not authentic Jewish tradition because, as these stories demonstrate, this kind of knowledge was traditionally thought to be far too dangerous to be distributed blindly to the masses.

It is important to note that all of these magical effects were achieved through the power of G-d, generally by calling upon the name of G-d. These practices are no more "evil" than the miracles of the prophets, or the miracles that Christians ascribe to Jesus. In fact, according to some of my mystically-inclined friends, Jesus performed his miracles using kabbalistic techniques learned from the Essenes, a Jewish sect of that time that was involved in mysticism.

[Zenith]

yes but we knew enough to know our limits in the near future (next 200 years).we would use gentical and cybertronic manipulation to improve ourselves,and combined with our control of nuclear energy we could cliam that this is the the begining or the end (depends on your view) of the human age.

really?
Which are the limits for the next 200 years?
I think this is like the plan of the muslims to control the world: by the growth rate of Islam, I heard that (statistically), in 2055 there would be half of the entire world population islamic. So they can state a year when they will rule the earth. Does that mean that nothing would interfere, but the plan would simply work?

about science limitation: I believe that only when you start to do something concrete you can know if you are limited or not. That because anything anytime can go wrong, and you don't know that that particular thing goes wrong until it does.

[Dr. Dan]

And how can one build a huge universe like Gd did and fit it into this tiny planet?

Creating an electron is far from what Gd is capable of doing.  Gd can bring justice for the weak and destroy the mighty...you mean to tell me a humans can do perfect justice?

So after "a few years of scientifical development a man can create another universe?"

And I suppose he'll live long enough to see what the universe will be come like?
 

Zenith,

You have not studied any Kabbalah because nowhere does it say anything that Man is G-d... That is utterly ridiculous..

now do you see why we need science.you can be like G-d after a few years of scientifical development.

you know.the whole series of experiment in the new particle acclerator is aimed at creating the enviroment of the big bang.a decade or two like that and we could create a mini universe the size of an electron.

[Dr. Dan]

Kabbalah is not man trying to control G-d. It provides a means for understanding why things are the way they are. By understanding how Hashem interacts with this world we gain more understanding of him.

PS: You cannot accept everything that people are calling Kabbalah... The only site I have found which is good about Kabbalah is http://www.koshertorah.com . I also don't recommend everyone to learn this before they learn the basics of Judaism because Kabbalah is useless without understanding of Torah.

and Talmud..

Furthermore you have to be over the age of 40 and have children already.

[Ben m]

i can state now part of the limits:time travel (we could only be able to travel to alternate universes.sure not in the 200 years limit).
space travel: we wouldn't be able to cross the speed of light.
life an d death: we would be able to reanimate the body but not the personality of the person.
psionics: sorry,this is just a mystical invention.

[Zenith]

one of my first sentences when I talked about what I've heard/read about Kabbalah, was that there were more kinds of Kabbalah. So I considered that what you know as Kabbalah (Jewish Kabbalism) may be a different thing from this.

I have one more question for you, muman613, about this topic.
how do you think your Kabbalah helps you? or, do you think it helps you in life?

I ask this because what you say ("Kabbalah attempts to understand Hashems interaction with the world") is a bit vague.

[Ben m]

And how can one build a huge universe like Gd did and fit it into this tiny planet?

Creating an electron is far from what Gd is capable of doing.  Gd can bring justice for the weak and destroy the mighty...you mean to tell me a humans can do perfect justice?

So after "a few years of scientifical development a man can create another universe?"

And I suppose he'll live long enough to see what the universe will be come like?
 

Zenith,

You have not studied any Kabbalah because nowhere does it say anything that Man is G-d... That is utterly ridiculous..

now do you see why we need science.you can be like G-d after a few years of scientifical development.

you know.the whole series of experiment in the new particle acclerator is aimed at creating the enviroment of the big bang.a decade or two like that and we could create a mini universe the size of an electron.

justice is a subjective thing.so there isn't a thing as a perfect justice and the many arguments here proves that.

[Ben m]

Kabbalah is not man trying to control G-d. It provides a means for understanding why things are the way they are. By understanding how Hashem interacts with this world we gain more understanding of him.

PS: You cannot accept everything that people are calling Kabbalah... The only site I have found which is good about Kabbalah is http://www.koshertorah.com . I also don't recommend everyone to learn this before they learn the basics of Judaism because Kabbalah is useless without understanding of Torah.

and Talmud..

Furthermore you have to be over the age of 40 and have children already.

ah,why all this restrictions?

[Zenith]

justice is a subjective thing.so there isn't a thing as a perfect justice and the many arguments here proves that.

Justice is subjective to us because we are limited by wisdom, selfishness (i.e. "I am right no matter what"), and all the things that are and we are not aware of (what exactly has happened, one's feelings, thoughts, etc.).

So, from our position, it may be subjective. But for one that doesn't have these limitations, I don't think justice is a problem.

i can state now part of the limits:time travel (we could only be able to travel to alternate universes.sure not in the 200 years limit).
space travel: we wouldn't be able to cross the speed of light.
life an d death: we would be able to reanimate the body but not the personality of the person.

1. are you sure that alternate universes exist?
2. if you talk about the reanimation of that cell, from what I've read, it was no reanimation, but changing the DNA. Do I know wrong? By the way, if the body would become reanimated, why the personality not? you mean, that is not in the body, or what?
3. what about those limitations that would not allow us to become as God? do you know any? (because that was the subject)

[Ben m]

justice is a subjective thing.so there isn't a thing as a perfect justice and the many arguments here proves that.

Justice is subjective to us because we are limited by wisdom, selfishness (i.e. "I am right no matter what"), and all the things that are and we are not aware of (what exactly has happened, one's feelings, thoughts, etc.).

this is still depend on how you view the world.for example i am for execution,if i had the ultimate knowledge i would rule to exectute murderers ar rapists for example.on the other hand there could be somebody that is completly against execution no matter what and he will probably jusge different with me,even without our human limitations.

1. are you sure that alternate universes exist?
2. if you talk about the reanimation of that cell, from what I've read, it was no reanimation, but changing the DNA. Do I know wrong? By the way, if the body would become reanimated, why the personality not? you mean, that is not in the body, or what?
3. what about those limitations that would not allow us to become as G-d? do you know any? (because that was the subject)

1) sure as hell.many of moder day scientists are saying that alternate universes MUST exist according to quantum and string theories.
2) i talked about the animation of the body cells yes.but you don't need to change the dna,it would be useless.you need to finda power source to enable the cell to produce energy and reproduce again.this is why we can't restore the personality beacuse it is a forced life giving.it is like a new cell.you can enable the basic instinct though.
3) when i talked about being like god i meant that we would be able to be like god more than we are now after the human creation in the image of god.

[muman613]

one of my first sentences when I talked about what I've heard/read about Kabbalah, was that there were more kinds of Kabbalah. So I considered that what you know as Kabbalah (Jewish Kabbalism) may be a different thing from this.

I have one more question for you, muman613, about this topic.
how do you think your Kabbalah helps you? or, do you think it helps you in life?

I ask this because what you say ("Kabbalah attempts to understand Hashems interaction with the world") is a bit vague.

As you mentioned the 72 names, there is also the concept of the Sefirot, the 10 'qualities' or 'traits' of Hashem..

Here is the standard diagram of how these traits are related {from JewFaq.org}:

Ein Sof and the Ten Sefirot

To give you an idea of the nature of Kabbalah, I will briefly discuss one of the better known, fundamental concepts of kabbalistic thought: the concept of G-d as Ein Sof, the Ten Sefirot, and the kabbalistic tree of life. This explanation is, at best, a gross oversimplification. I do not pretend to fully understand these ideas.

According to Kabbalah, the true essence of G-d is so transcendent that it cannot be described, except with reference to what it is not. This true essence of G-d is known as Ein Sof, which literally means "without end," which encompasses the idea of His lack of boundaries in both time and space. In this truest form, the Ein Sof is so transcendent that It cannot have any direct interaction with the universe. The Ein Sof interacts with the universe through ten emanations from this essence, known as the Ten Sefirot.

These Sefirot correspond to qualities of G-d. They consist of, in descending order, Keter (the crown), Chokhmah (wisdom), Binah (intuition, understanding), Chesed (mercy) or Gedulah (greatness), Gevurah (strength), Tiferet (glory), Netzach (victory), Hod (majesty), Yesod (foundation) and Malkut (sovereignty). The middle five qualities are mentioned explicitly and in order at I Chronicles 29:11: Yours, O L-rd, is the greatness (gedulah), the strength (gevurah), the glory (tiferet), the power (netzach), and the splendor (hod). I have seen this passage translated in widely varying ways, but the Hebrew corresponds to the names of the Sefirot in order.

The Ten Sefirot include both masculine and feminine qualities. Kabbalah pays a great deal of attention to the feminine aspects of G-d.

The Sefirot are commonly represented as in the diagram at left. This diagram is commonly known as the Tree of the Sefirot or the Kabbalistic Tree of Life. There is great significance to the position of these various attributes and their interconnectedness.

The Sefirot are not separate deities, as some might think by taking this too literally. They are intimately a part of G-d, and yet they are in contact with the universe in a way that the Ein Sof is not. The Sefirot connect with everything in the universe, including humanity. The good and evil that we do resonates through the Sefirot and affects the entire universe, up to and including G-d Himself.

[Dr. Dan]

So if the majority of the world thought that Blacks were right and whites were wrong, then anything against a white person is justice?  If everyone in the world thought it was ok to sleep with little boys and little girls, it's justified to do it because the majority do it?  That's subjective right?

Clearly, there is only right and wrong and good and evil...all of this is based on the Torah...

And how can one build a huge universe like Gd did and fit it into this tiny planet?

Creating an electron is far from what Gd is capable of doing.  Gd can bring justice for the weak and destroy the mighty...you mean to tell me a humans can do perfect justice?

So after "a few years of scientifical development a man can create another universe?"

And I suppose he'll live long enough to see what the universe will be come like?
 

Zenith,

You have not studied any Kabbalah because nowhere does it say anything that Man is G-d... That is utterly ridiculous..

now do you see why we need science.you can be like G-d after a few years of scientifical development.

you know.the whole series of experiment in the new particle acclerator is aimed at creating the enviroment of the big bang.a decade or two like that and we could create a mini universe the size of an electron.

justice is a subjective thing.so there isn't a thing as a perfect justice and the many arguments here proves that.

[Dr. Dan]

Perfect Justice is what happened to the Egyptians in the 10 plagues and the rescue of the Israelites...no human can replicate that.

And how can one build a huge universe like Gd did and fit it into this tiny planet?

Creating an electron is far from what Gd is capable of doing.  Gd can bring justice for the weak and destroy the mighty...you mean to tell me a humans can do perfect justice?

So after "a few years of scientifical development a man can create another universe?"

And I suppose he'll live long enough to see what the universe will be come like?
 

Zenith,

You have not studied any Kabbalah because nowhere does it say anything that Man is G-d... That is utterly ridiculous..

now do you see why we need science.you can be like G-d after a few years of scientifical development.

you know.the whole series of experiment in the new particle acclerator is aimed at creating the enviroment of the big bang.a decade or two like that and we could create a mini universe the size of an electron.

justice is a subjective thing.so there isn't a thing as a perfect justice and the many arguments here proves that.

[Ben m]

So if the majority of the world thought that Blacks were right and whites were wrong, then anything against a white person is justice?  If everyone in the world thought it was ok to sleep with little boys and little girls, it's justified to do it because the majority do it?  That's subjective right?

Clearly, there is only right and wrong and good and evil...all of this is based on the Torah...

And how can one build a huge universe like Gd did and fit it into this tiny planet?

Creating an electron is far from what Gd is capable of doing.  Gd can bring justice for the weak and destroy the mighty...you mean to tell me a humans can do perfect justice?

So after "a few years of scientifical development a man can create another universe?"

And I suppose he'll live long enough to see what the universe will be come like?
 

Zenith,

You have not studied any Kabbalah because nowhere does it say anything that Man is G-d... That is utterly ridiculous..

now do you see why we need science.you can be like G-d after a few years of scientifical development.

you know.the whole series of experiment in the new particle acclerator is aimed at creating the enviroment of the big bang.a decade or two like that and we could create a mini universe the size of an electron.

justice is a subjective thing.so there isn't a thing as a perfect justice and the many arguments here proves that.

yes.they percive this as justice.i percive this as gross but i would not interfere with THEIR justice.

[Spiraling Leopard]

and, by the way...
maybe the earth will be hitted by an asteroid or something much earlier, so men would experience not much scientific development.

by the way, did you watch "Idiocracy"?

yes i watched idiocracy.we could counter that with a simple genetical manipulation.that is why we need to invest in genetical reaserch.

A good start to countering idiocracy would be eliminating you.

[Spiraling Leopard]

Kabbalah to most people will be spiritual materialism. It is ego, but then again, everything is vanity.

[Spiraling Leopard]

If you cannot even control yourself, how can you begin to control the universe? Wanting to control the universe is ego/vanity and seeing this as spirituality is spiritual materialism.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Zenith,

You have not studied any Kabbalah because nowhere does it say anything that Man is G-d... That is utterly ridiculous..

that Kabbalah doesn't say that Man is G-d, but that men are gods. If by his own mind one splits the water in two I don't know what's the difference between a G-d and a man.

"As the Zohar makes clear, the purpose of the 72 Names is hidden in the story in which they are found. The Names are a tool to help humanity gain control over chaos by controlling physical nature. By their use of the 72 Names, the Israelites overcame the ego-based negativity of doubt and thus changed the nature of water until it no longer flowed. According to Kabbalah, humanity is destined to have control over physical nature; the only obstacle is our ego. Overcoming ego at its very foundation brings control of the physical world, and that is the purpose of the INSTRUMENT THAT IS THE 72 NAMES."
(http://www2.kabbalah.com/12.php)

Complete nonsense.  These charlatans you are "learning" from don't even begin to understand Zohar or any kabbalistic works.    They are frauds, plain and simple.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

and, by the way...
maybe the earth will be hitted by an asteroid or something much earlier, so men would experience not much scientific development.

by the way, did you watch "Idiocracy"?

yes i watched idiocracy.we could counter that with a simple genetical manipulation.that is why we need to invest in genetical reaserch.

What the hell are you talking about?   Do you realize how stupid you sound?   Simple genetic manipulation will prevent an asteroid from hitting the earth?   

I can't believe what I'm seeing!      

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kabbalah is not man trying to control G-d. It provides a means for understanding why things are the way they are. By understanding how Hashem interacts with this world we gain more understanding of him.

PS: You cannot accept everything that people are calling Kabbalah... The only site I have found which is good about Kabbalah is http://www.koshertorah.com

muman613, I don't know what the Kabbalah you learnt teaches, I talked about what I heard/read.
And tell me that what I quoted does not say what I stated: that it says that men are gods.

You're not quoting Jewish sources.

You are quoting sex-maniacs and their own quack interpretation of what they think they read in Jewish sources (even though they are not even fluent in Hebrew, let alone understand aramaic).  Give me a break.  These animals are deceiving people on a daily basis with their fraudulent nonsense.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

one of my first sentences when I talked about what I've heard/read about Kabbalah, was that there were more kinds of Kabbalah. So I considered that what you know as Kabbalah (Jewish Kabbalism) may be a different thing from this.

Call it mysticism or spirituality or paganism if you like, but "non-Jewish" forms of Kabalah are not kabbalah.  

And the charlatans you are quoting claim to be presenting Jewish kabbalah, even though they are completely ignorant and have no idea what they are saying, so what you say is not true.  

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Muman, why are you propagating kabalah here.  These people have no business learning it.   Just discourage them from accepting what the phony frauds are telling them and that's it.   As if watered-down dumbed-down real kabalah is that much better than propagating fraud like "kabalah centre."    Neither of these ways are the true ways of learning.