Why can I not delete my account?

[Ben m]

it is realy said if your only proof is G-d.

You just brought Tanach as a supposed proof to you (even though Tanach proves against you).

G-d is not the only proof but it is surely the ultimate one.   That you reject it is your own mistake.

You think you can just make up any ideas you like and that these serve as "proofs."   Even the famous atheist philosopher Kant did not agree with that and described that the source of any authentic system of ethics can only be from G-d.  (in his case, a notion of "G-d" since he himself did not believe).   Of course you are nowhere near the level of Kant and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, so I doubt whether you can comprehend his point.   I leave you with the simple proofs because they are most straightforward and ultimately the only way about it.   Yes, we have been commanded at Mount Sinai , we are obligated in what the Torah says, and outside of that there is no such thing as Jewish and our "identity" would be meaningless.    

Ben believes Judaism is subjective and therefore using it as an argument is invalid.

Then why did he bring an example from Tanach to try to prove his own point?

I don't think ben even knows what he believes.    What he "believes" is simply what he wants and is comfortable thinking, whether it's true or not.

Didn't you realize he's a convinced post-Modernist?

sorry.i can't be considered as a post modernist beacuse a simple reason: i beleive in objective truth.but i beleive the ultimate objective truth to be science and not god.at leat not your god.

[muman613]

it is realy said if your only proof is G-d.

You just brought Tanach as a supposed proof to you (even though Tanach proves against you).

G-d is not the only proof but it is surely the ultimate one.   That you reject it is your own mistake.

You think you can just make up any ideas you like and that these serve as "proofs."   Even the famous atheist philosopher Kant did not agree with that and described that the source of any authentic system of ethics can only be from G-d.  (in his case, a notion of "G-d" since he himself did not believe).   Of course you are nowhere near the level of Kant and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, so I doubt whether you can comprehend his point.   I leave you with the simple proofs because they are most straightforward and ultimately the only way about it.   Yes, we have been commanded at Mount Sinai , we are obligated in what the Torah says, and outside of that there is no such thing as Jewish and our "identity" would be meaningless.    

Ben believes Judaism is subjective and therefore using it as an argument is invalid.

Then why did he bring an example from Tanach to try to prove his own point?

I don't think ben even knows what he believes.    What he "believes" is simply what he wants and is comfortable thinking, whether it's true or not.

Didn't you realize he's a convinced post-Modernist?

sorry.i can't be considered as a post modernist beacuse a simple reason: i beleive in objective truth.but i beleive the ultimate objective truth to be science and not G-d.at leat not your G-d.

So you worship strange gods too... Ben you are such a nebuch...

[Ben m]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

[muman613]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Patriotism is not logical. Why is the 'state' so important that it must survive?  Sounds like a communist ideology... Everything is not important, religion included, for the good of the state...

[Ben m]

it is realy said if your only proof is G-d.

You just brought Tanach as a supposed proof to you (even though Tanach proves against you).

G-d is not the only proof but it is surely the ultimate one.   That you reject it is your own mistake.

You think you can just make up any ideas you like and that these serve as "proofs."   Even the famous atheist philosopher Kant did not agree with that and described that the source of any authentic system of ethics can only be from G-d.  (in his case, a notion of "G-d" since he himself did not believe).   Of course you are nowhere near the level of Kant and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, so I doubt whether you can comprehend his point.   I leave you with the simple proofs because they are most straightforward and ultimately the only way about it.   Yes, we have been commanded at Mount Sinai , we are obligated in what the Torah says, and outside of that there is no such thing as Jewish and our "identity" would be meaningless.    

Ben believes Judaism is subjective and therefore using it as an argument is invalid.

Then why did he bring an example from Tanach to try to prove his own point?

I don't think ben even knows what he believes.    What he "believes" is simply what he wants and is comfortable thinking, whether it's true or not.

Didn't you realize he's a convinced post-Modernist?

sorry.i can't be considered as a post modernist beacuse a simple reason: i beleive in objective truth.but i beleive the ultimate objective truth to be science and not G-d.at leat not your G-d.

So you worship strange gods too... Ben you are such a nebuch...

i don't worship foreign gods.i don't worship any god.but i said that if i will meet a scientific proof for gods' existence i am sure it is not ron's god but at least a benefical god.

[Ben m]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Patriotism is not logical. Why is the 'state' so important that it must survive?  Sounds like a communist ideology... Everything is not important, religion included, for the good of the state...

the state is the ultimate human creation.besides all of the people here wants to ensure the survival of israel.

[muman613]

it is realy said if your only proof is G-d.

You just brought Tanach as a supposed proof to you (even though Tanach proves against you).

G-d is not the only proof but it is surely the ultimate one.   That you reject it is your own mistake.

You think you can just make up any ideas you like and that these serve as "proofs."   Even the famous atheist philosopher Kant did not agree with that and described that the source of any authentic system of ethics can only be from G-d.  (in his case, a notion of "G-d" since he himself did not believe).   Of course you are nowhere near the level of Kant and shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, so I doubt whether you can comprehend his point.   I leave you with the simple proofs because they are most straightforward and ultimately the only way about it.   Yes, we have been commanded at Mount Sinai , we are obligated in what the Torah says, and outside of that there is no such thing as Jewish and our "identity" would be meaningless.    

Ben believes Judaism is subjective and therefore using it as an argument is invalid.

Then why did he bring an example from Tanach to try to prove his own point?

I don't think ben even knows what he believes.    What he "believes" is simply what he wants and is comfortable thinking, whether it's true or not.

Didn't you realize he's a convinced post-Modernist?

sorry.i can't be considered as a post modernist beacuse a simple reason: i beleive in objective truth.but i beleive the ultimate objective truth to be science and not G-d.at leat not your G-d.

So you worship strange gods too... Ben you are such a nebuch...

i don't worship foreign gods.i don't worship any G-d.but i said that if i will meet a scientific proof for gods' existence i am sure it is not ron's G-d but at least a benefical G-d.

There is only ONE GOD and you profane his name every day... I truly hope you wake up from your deep slumber some day...

[muman613]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Patriotism is not logical. Why is the 'state' so important that it must survive?  Sounds like a communist ideology... Everything is not important, religion included, for the good of the state...

the state is the ultimate human creation.besides all of the people here wants to ensure the survival of israel.

Jews in Israel are only because Hashem promised the land to our forefathers. Otherwise you would be in Uganda Ben...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Who says you have to stick to a state?  That's not logical.  Go where it's safe.  Go where it's economically viable.  Go where you are happy or can find cheap drugs or whatever it is you are into (please don't rot your brain, ben).   Patriotism is not a concept built on logic or science.   Patriotism is in its essence an irrational human-emotional concept.  Try again.

[Ben m]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Patriotism is not logical. Why is the 'state' so important that it must survive?  Sounds like a communist ideology... Everything is not important, religion included, for the good of the state...

the state is the ultimate human creation.besides all of the people here wants to ensure the survival of israel.

Jews in Israel are only because Hashem promised the land to our forefathers. Otherwise you would be in Uganda Ben...

in that case i would be an ugandan patriot.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

the state is the ultimate human creation.

LOL, spoken like a true fascist.

[Ben m]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Who says you have to stick to a state?  That's not logical.  Go where it's safe.  Go where it's economically viable.  Go where you are happy or can find cheap drugs or whatever it is you are into (please don't rot your brain, ben).   Patriotism is not a concept built on logic or science.   Patriotism is in its essence an irrational human-emotional concept.  Try again.

yuck,all the illogical reasons to leave the state.and yes i am  HUMAN being so i can't control my emotions (hormones).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

For a further reason why this is incorrect, the patriotism of imbeciles is actually quite contrary to the survival and expansion of a state.  And I know this to be true because I understand how evolution works.   Can you say the same, or you only studied newtonian physics with the bumper cars and the lasers?


While we're on the subject, why are you convinced the state has to expand?  Who says that is needed or a necessary goal?    What you have said here is not scientific and is actually baseless unfounded conjecture.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Who says you have to stick to a state?  That's not logical.  Go where it's safe.  Go where it's economically viable.  Go where you are happy or can find cheap drugs or whatever it is you are into (please don't rot your brain, ben).   Patriotism is not a concept built on logic or science.   Patriotism is in its essence an irrational human-emotional concept.  Try again.

yuck,all the illogical reasons to leave the state.and yes i am  HUMAN being so i can't control my emotions (hormones).

You just told me the debate has to stick to science and logic.   Since when do "emotions" fall under those categories or constitute scientific arguments?   You are running around in circles because you have no idea what you are saying.

And you are completely incorrect when you say emotions cannot be controlled.  Scientifically you are proven wrong in that assertion.  Are you going to deny scientific fact now too?

[Ben m]

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

For a further reason why this is incorrect, the patriotism of imbeciles is actually quite contrary to the survival and expansion of a state.  And I know this to be true because I understand how evolution works.   Can you say the same, are you only studied newtonian physics with the bumper cars and the lasers?


While we're on the subject, why are you convinced the state has to expand?  Who says that is needed or a necessary goal?    What you have said here is not scientific and is actually baseless unfounded conjecture.

the stae had to expand so to help human kind develop ( a lot of scientific invention made during war time or for the army like the tank,the radar,the gps,the atomic bomb and nuclear power plants,etc).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

For a further reason why this is incorrect, the patriotism of imbeciles is actually quite contrary to the survival and expansion of a state.  And I know this to be true because I understand how evolution works.   Can you say the same, are you only studied newtonian physics with the bumper cars and the lasers?


While we're on the subject, why are you convinced the state has to expand?  Who says that is needed or a necessary goal?    What you have said here is not scientific and is actually baseless unfounded conjecture.

the stae had to expand so to help human kind develop ( a lot of scientific invention made during war time or for the army like the tank,the radar,the gps,the atomic bomb and nuclear power plants,etc).

How do you define "develop?"  And who says human kind has to develop?   

I think you fail to understand the concept of rhetorical question.   Your silly answers have not made your problems of illogic and inconsistency go away.

[Ben m]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Who says you have to stick to a state?  That's not logical.  Go where it's safe.  Go where it's economically viable.  Go where you are happy or can find cheap drugs or whatever it is you are into (please don't rot your brain, ben).   Patriotism is not a concept built on logic or science.   Patriotism is in its essence an irrational human-emotional concept.  Try again.

yuck,all the illogical reasons to leave the state.and yes i am  HUMAN being so i can't control my emotions (hormones).

You just told me the debate has to stick to science and logic.   Since when do "emotions" fall under those categories or constitute scientific arguments?   You are running around in circles because you have no idea what you are saying.

And you are completely incorrect when you say emotions cannot be controlled.  Scientifically you are proven wrong in that assertion.  Are you going to deny scientific fact now too?

i acn control my everyfday emotions like pity and anger,but i can't block my natural feeling to stick with the herd (the state).

[Ben m]

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

For a further reason why this is incorrect, the patriotism of imbeciles is actually quite contrary to the survival and expansion of a state.  And I know this to be true because I understand how evolution works.   Can you say the same, are you only studied newtonian physics with the bumper cars and the lasers?


While we're on the subject, why are you convinced the state has to expand?  Who says that is needed or a necessary goal?    What you have said here is not scientific and is actually baseless unfounded conjecture.

the stae had to expand so to help human kind develop ( a lot of scientific invention made during war time or for the army like the tank,the radar,the gps,the atomic bomb and nuclear power plants,etc).

How do you define "develop?"  And who says human kind has to develop?   

I think you fail to understand the concept of rhetorical question.   Your silly answers have not made your problems of illogic and inconsistency go away.

the only development i care for is a scientific and millitary development.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Who says you have to stick to a state?  That's not logical.  Go where it's safe.  Go where it's economically viable.  Go where you are happy or can find cheap drugs or whatever it is you are into (please don't rot your brain, ben).   Patriotism is not a concept built on logic or science.   Patriotism is in its essence an irrational human-emotional concept.  Try again.

yuck,all the illogical reasons to leave the state.and yes i am  HUMAN being so i can't control my emotions (hormones).

You just told me the debate has to stick to science and logic.   Since when do "emotions" fall under those categories or constitute scientific arguments?   You are running around in circles because you have no idea what you are saying.

And you are completely incorrect when you say emotions cannot be controlled.  Scientifically you are proven wrong in that assertion.  Are you going to deny scientific fact now too?

i acn control my everyfday emotions like pity and anger,but i can't block my natural feeling to stick with the herd (the state).

Let's say I grant you maybe you can't, but there are other people who can.   The fact remains that patriotism is not a logical or scientific reason to do anything.   Patriotism is actually a spiritual-emotional concept.   There is no way around that.

[Ben m]

when you wwill not need to use G-d in your proofs we will tlak.try to bring some scientifical and logical proofs.and no'i don't want to leave israel.and i am going to stay here to the end and i have my own reason for that.

Patriotism is not scientific.

Nor is it logical.


Your serve, clown.

patriotism is the best logical way to ensure the survival snd the expansion of the state.

Who says you have to stick to a state?  That's not logical.  Go where it's safe.  Go where it's economically viable.  Go where you are happy or can find cheap drugs or whatever it is you are into (please don't rot your brain, ben).   Patriotism is not a concept built on logic or science.   Patriotism is in its essence an irrational human-emotional concept.  Try again.

yuck,all the illogical reasons to leave the state.and yes i am  HUMAN being so i can't control my emotions (hormones).

You just told me the debate has to stick to science and logic.   Since when do "emotions" fall under those categories or constitute scientific arguments?   You are running around in circles because you have no idea what you are saying.

And you are completely incorrect when you say emotions cannot be controlled.  Scientifically you are proven wrong in that assertion.  Are you going to deny scientific fact now too?

i acn control my everyfday emotions like pity and anger,but i can't block my natural feeling to stick with the herd (the state).

Let's say I grant you maybe you can't, but there are other people who can.   The fact remains that patriotism is not a logical or scientific reason to do anything.   Patriotism is actually a spiritual-emotional concept.   There is no way around that.

patriotism is basicaly sticking with the herd.theherd in this sense is the state.do you want to live under under different nations that don't care about you and want to kill you?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

the only development i care for is a scientific and millitary development.

But other people like other kinds of development.  Some people like economic development, others like educational development, development of the arts, development of profound philosophical tradition, etc.   Who says that your preferred development is more important than theirs?   And who says ANY of these notions are necessities that thereby obligate a person in commitment to its furtherance?   There is simply no logical reason for anyone to commit to any of these things except "Well, I like that" or "well, I care for that."   That is not scientific or logical.   That is simply your personal desires which you project onto everyone else.

You missed the point of what I was saying which is that there is no logical reason why a state has to expand (or contract, or stay the same) by default in any situation.   You simply determined that as the end goal and then made a religion out of it.  But who says it's true?   On what authority do you assert it thus?   NONE, nadda, zilch, zero.

[Ben m]

the only development i care for is a scientific and millitary development.

But other people like other kinds of development.  Some people like economic development, others like educational development, development of the arts, development of profound philosophical tradition, etc.   Who says that your preferred development is more important than theirs?   And who says ANY of these notions are necessities that thereby obligate a person in commitment to its furtherance?   There is simply no logical reason for anyone to commit to any of these things except "Well, I like that" or "well, I care for that."   That is not scientific or logical.   That is simply your personal desires which you project onto everyone else.

You missed the point of what I was saying which is that there is no logical reason why a state has to expand (or contract, or stay the same) by default in any situation.   You simply determined that as the end goal and then made a religion out of it.  But who says it's true?   On what authority do you assert it thus?   NONE, nadda, zilch, zero.

i based this claims on theauthority of some of the best thinker ever existed.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

the only development i care for is a scientific and millitary development.

But other people like other kinds of development.  Some people like economic development, others like educational development, development of the arts, development of profound philosophical tradition, etc.   Who says that your preferred development is more important than theirs?   And who says ANY of these notions are necessities that thereby obligate a person in commitment to its furtherance?   There is simply no logical reason for anyone to commit to any of these things except "Well, I like that" or "well, I care for that."   That is not scientific or logical.   That is simply your personal desires which you project onto everyone else.

You missed the point of what I was saying which is that there is no logical reason why a state has to expand (or contract, or stay the same) by default in any situation.   You simply determined that as the end goal and then made a religion out of it.  But who says it's true?   On what authority do you assert it thus?   NONE, nadda, zilch, zero.

i based this claims on theauthority of some of the best thinker ever existed.

But that's not an answer.................

[muman613]

the only development i care for is a scientific and millitary development.

But other people like other kinds of development.  Some people like economic development, others like educational development, development of the arts, development of profound philosophical tradition, etc.   Who says that your preferred development is more important than theirs?   And who says ANY of these notions are necessities that thereby obligate a person in commitment to its furtherance?   There is simply no logical reason for anyone to commit to any of these things except "Well, I like that" or "well, I care for that."   That is not scientific or logical.   That is simply your personal desires which you project onto everyone else.

You missed the point of what I was saying which is that there is no logical reason why a state has to expand (or contract, or stay the same) by default in any situation.   You simply determined that as the end goal and then made a religion out of it.  But who says it's true?   On what authority do you assert it thus?   NONE, nadda, zilch, zero.

i based this claims on theauthority of some of the best thinker ever existed.

Ben, you must bring some proof and not just make claims like 'the authority of soem of the best thinker ever existed".... Who are you referring to?

[Yaakov Mendel]

Hyades,

I haven't been here long, but I found all the posts I read from you interesting and relevant. It would be really a pity if you leave us.
Actually, the fact that you defend your country against silly and unfair generalizations is a sign of loyalty and you should be proud of it.
Don't let yourself get hurt by childish or provocative or disrespectful remarks.