Pagan Sun Worshippers at Stonehenge today

[muman613]

It seems that Pagan idol worship is making a comeback... Some woman interviewed in this article says "It is great we are getting back to our pagan roots..."

Sun Worshipping is a form of idol worship prohibited by the Torah... I hope that no Jew was present at this pagan rite..


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/wiltshire/10362534.stm

About 20,000 revellers were at Stonehenge to mark the Summer Solstice, each hoping to see the sun as it rose above the ancient stone circle at dawn.

Police described the event on Salisbury Plain in Wiltshire as one of the safest in years, although 34 people were arrested for minor drug offences.

Sunrise, marking the longest day of the year north of the equator, occurred over the circle at 0452 BST.

The Heel Stone, just outside the main circle, aligns with the rising sun.

Peter Carson from English Heritage said: "It has been quieter this year but it's been a great solstice.
'Monday morning'

"It's an improvement on the last few years - the last time I remember seeing the sun rise was in 2003 - so it's great to see the sun has put in an appearance.

"This year there are about 20,000 people and last year it was about 35,000 - so that is quite a bit down which has meant the operation is a lot easier. "

He said two years ago the solstice happened early on a Saturday and about 30,000 people attended.

He added: "I think the days of the week do make a considerable difference to the number of people who come along - this year it's a Monday morning.
Pagan roots

"The people who are streaming out now - a lot of them are going to work."

Victoria Campbell, 29, was among those marking the solstice.

She said: "It means a lot to us...being British and following our pagan roots."

The Londoner, who works in the finance industry, added "getting away from the city" was a major draw.

On Sunday police chiefs said they had planned for "all eventualities" ahead of the event.

Last year a record 36,500 revellers attended, causing traffic chaos and road closures.

[New Yorker]

I can't believe England allows this, I'm not even concerned about the vile rights they're performing, they'll get theirs for that regardless, what I can't believe is that the government of the UK would allow 20,000+ hippy morons to climb all over and damage an important archeological site, you know those idiots are damaging the site with this stupidity, who knows what history and scientific evidence is being erased by their activities.

[Trace]

Eh, it's hard for me to get worked up over. I think everyone should be free to practice whatever religion they want to as long as that religion is not Islam. I don't think gentiles need to be Christian in order to be good. I don't have a problem with Hindus, and they worship multiple gods and pray to idols. I think people are thrown when white Europeans do this stuff because we think of white people as being Christian. I also don't think their ancestor's religion was "wrong." Let's face it, more evil was done to Jews in Europe under Christianity than under the religions that came before it. So, whatever, I don't care - actually, I think a Europe where everyone worshiped pagan gods would be preferable to a Europe where everyone was an atheist and worshiped NO god. And certainly preferable to a Muslim Europe. At least these pagans have a religion, which means that they are less likely to turn to Islam. When people have no faith, they are easily conquered by Islam.

And please, don't bring up the Nazi angle - it's a cheap tactic and it makes you look like a bad debater. Crying "Nazis!" every time you see something you don't like is the whiny and weak way to discuss something. Pre-Christian pagan ideology was not a big part of Nazism, and I don't care how many conspiracy theorists say otherwise. The Nazis had no religious faith. They worshiped Hitler's cult of personality and the politics of the Nazi party. This is the most dangerous kind of ideology.

[muman613]

Pagan religion is forbidden in Torah according to several commandments. There is no way Judaism can accept Idolatry. They are mutually exclusive. Those who engage in Sun worship are considered enemies of the Jew...

We will not violently deal with them today, but the day will come when we will smash their idols.

[muman613]

http://torahsearch.com/page.cfm/2649

4. Idolatry and the Customs of the Nations - Avodah Zarah ve-Chukos ha- Goyim

a) Idolatry

It is forbidden to worship any created thing. Even if the worshipper knows that Ha-Shem is G-d, and he is worshipping this created thing because he believes that G-d wants it to be honored, he is still regarded as an idolator. This is what the Torah warned against: "And lest you lift up your eyes to the heavens and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven that Ha-Shem your G-d apportioned to all the nations, and you are drawn away and bow down to them and worship them"1 -- that is, 1est you think that these are the leaders which G-d gave to the world and it is therefore proper to bow down to them and worship them. And on the same subject He commanded "Take care lest your hearts be deceived [and you turn away and worship other gods and bow down to them]"2 -- that is, lest you err in your hearts and worship these as intermediaries between yourselves and the Creator.a The commandment against idolatry is as important as all the other commandments combined. A person who accepts idolatry denies all of the Torah and the prophets. A Jew who becomes an idolator is like a non-Jew in all respects.b

It is forbidden to worship an idol in the way it is customarily worshipped, as it says "And you shall not worship them".3 It is also forbidden to sacrifice to it or to bow down to it even if it is not customarily worshipped in these ways, as it says "One who sacrifices to a G-d, except to Ha-Shem only, shall be destroyed"4; and it says "You shall not bow down to them"3 and "You shall not bow down to another G-d".5,c It is forbidden to make an idol, as it says "You shall not make yourselves metal gods",6 or to have one made for oneself, as it says "You shall not make yourself an idol or any image".7,d It is also forbidden to make raised figures of men or of heavenly bodies even for decoration, as it says "You shall not make [gods of silver or gods of gold] with Me".8,e

It is forbidden even to look at idols or to study how they are worshipped, as it says "Do not turn toward idols",6 and it says "And lest you inquire after their gods, saying `How do these nations worship their gods'"9; for this can lead you to do as they do, as it says "that I too may do so".9,f It is forbidden to turn toward idolatry even in one's mind; we are warned against all thoughts that might lead to the uprooting of any of the basic principles of the Torah, as it says "And you shall not wander after your hearts or after your eyes which you are used to straying after".10,g

A person who accepts idolatry as true, even if he has not worshipped, blasphemes against Ha-Shem, as it says "And the person who acts high- handedly... is blaspheming against Ha-Shem".11,h Blasphemy itself is also forbidden, as it says "You shall not curse G-d",12 and it says "One who blasphemes the name of Ha-Shem shall be put to death".13,i It is forbidden to mention the name of idolatry or to swear by it, as it says "And you shall not mention the name of another G-d".14,j

We are commanded to destroy idols and everything used in their worship, as it says "You shall destroy all the places where the nations... worshipped their gods... and you shall break down their altars and smash their pillars and burn their sacred trees and chop down their idols and destroy their name out of that place".15 "Thus shall you do to them: break down their altars, smash their pillars, chop down their sacred trees, and burn their idols".16,k It is forbidden to derive benefit from any of these things, as it says "And you shall not bring an abomination into your house",17 and it says "You shall burn the idols of their gods in fire; you shall not covet the silver and gold on them and take it for yourself".18,l

b) Incitement to Idolatry

A Jew who incites others to idolatry must be mercilessly punished, as it says "[If your brother... entice you, saying `Let us go and worship other gods'...] you shall not consent and you shall not listen to him and you shall not pity him and you shall not have mercy on him or conceal him; your hand shall be the first to put him to death... and all Israel shall hear and see and cease to do such a thing among you".19,m If the majority of the inhabitants of a Jewish city are incited to idolatry the city must be destroyed, as it says "If you hear... that evil men have incited the inhabitants of their city, saying `Let us go and worship other gods'... you shall smite the inhabitants of that city with the sword, destroy it and all that is in it... and you shall burn the city and all its booty... it shall not be built again and none of the [booty] shall remain in your hands...".20,n

It is forbidden to prophesy in the name of idolatry or to prophesy falsely even in G-d's name, and it is forbidden to listen to such a prophet, as it says "But the prophet who presumes to say something in My name that I did not command him to say or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die... you shall not fear him",21 and it says "If a prophet arises among you...saying `Let us go after other gods'... you shall not listen to the words of that prophet".22,o

Contact with idolators should be avoided if it is likely to support them in idolatry p and certainly if there is any danger of them leading us astray, as it says "You shall not make a treaty with them or show mercy to them",23 and it says "[You shall make no treaty with them or with their gods;] they shall not dwell in your land lest they cause you to sin against Me, for you will worship their gods",24 and it says "Lest you make a treaty with the dweller(s) in the land and they stray after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and he calls you and you eat from his sacrifice...".25,q

c) Idolatrous and Magical Practices

It is forbidden to imitate the style of worship used by idolators even in worshipping Ha-Shem. In particular, the Torah forbids erecting pillars for worship, as it says "And you shall not set up a pillar 26; or setting down stones to bow down on except in the Temple, as it says "[You shall not make yourselves false gods nor set up idols or pillars] and you shall not put carved stones in your land to bow down on"27; or planting trees in the Temple, as it says "You shall not plant any sacred tree next to the altar of Ha-Shem your G-d".28,r

Divination and sorcery are forbidden; the Torah enumerates many specific types: "Do not turn to ghosts or familiar spirits"29,s; "[You shall not learn to imitate the abominations of those nations;] there shall not be found among you one who passes his son or daughter through fire (this refers to Moloch worship: "You shall not give of your seed to pass to Moloch"30,t), a diviner, a soothsayer, an enchanter, a sorcerer, a charmer, one who consults a ghost or familiar spirit, or a necromancer"31; "You shall not practice divination or soothsaying".32,u

d) The Customs of the Nations

A Jew should not follow the customs of the nations by imitating them in styles of dress or hair or the like, as it says "And you shall not follow the customs of the nations",33 and it says "And you shall not follow their customs",34 and it says "Take care lest you are entrapped into following them".35 A Jew should be distinguished from them in his clothing and actions as he is in his thoughts, as it says "And I separated you from the nations to be Mine".36,v In particular it is forbidden to shave the "corners" of the head or the beard, as it says "You shall not round off the border of your head... or destroy the border of your beard".37,w A woman should not wear man's clothes or ornaments nor a man women's [as it says "A man's trappings shall not be on a woman nor shall a man wear a woman's garment"].38,x Tattooing is forbidden, as it says "And you shall not put marks on yourselves".39,y Cutting oneself or tearing one's hair over the dead is also forbidden, as it says "You shall not make cuts in your flesh for a spirit",39 and it says "You shall not cut yourselves or make baldness between your eyes for the dead".40,z

Sources: 1. Deut. 4:19 a. 2:1 2. Deut. 11:16 b. 2:4-5 3. Ex. 20:5 c. 3:2-3 4. Ex. 22:19 d. 3:9 5. Ex. 34:14 e. 3:10-11 6. Lev. 19:4 f. 2:2 7. Ex. 20:4 g. 2:3 8. Ex. 20:20 h. 2:6 9. Deut. 12:30 i. 2:7-8 10. Num. 15:39 j. 5:10-11 11. Num. 15:30 k. 7:1 12. Ex. 22:27 l. 7:2; 8:7 13. Lev. 24:16 m. 5:4 14. Ex. 23:13 n. 4:6-7 15. Deut. 12:2-3 o. 5:6-7,9 16. Deut. 7:5 p. 9:8 17. Deut. 7:26 q. 10:1,6; 9:15 18. Deut. 7:25 r. 6:6-9 19. Deut. 13:7-12 s. 6:1-2 20. Deut. 13:13-18 t. 6:3 21. Deut. 18:20,22 u. 11:4,6-10,13-15 22. Deut. 13:2-4 v. 11:1 23. Deut. 7:2 w. 12:1,7 24. Ex. 23:32-33 x. 12:10 25. Ex. 34:15 y. 12:11 26. Deut. 16:22 z. 12:12-13,15 27. Lev. 26:1 28. Deut. 16:21 29. Lev. 19:31 30. Lev. 18:21 31. Deut. 18:9-10 32. Lev. 19:26 33. Lev. 20:23 34. Lev. 18:3 35. Deut. 12:30 36. Lev. 20:26 37. Lev. 19:27 38. Deut. 22:5 39. Lev. 19:28 40. Deut. 14:1

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

One major problem of the sinner is that they worship the Creation instead of the Creator.
Idolatry is equal to Communism in its evil.

[muman613]

Let me add that I am primarily talking to Jews who engage in this kind of behavior... A Jew who worships the sun is an apikoris..

[Rubystars]

It might be interesting to see the sunlight going through parts of the monument as it was designed to do, however I think it's very evil to worship the sun.

[Trace]

Did I ever say that JEWS should worship idols or practice pagan rituals? I don't think they should. But it doesn't bother me if gentiles do it. As long as they're not Muslims, they're fine as far as I'm concerned. You have to admit that European pagans are preferable to European atheists, because at least the pagans have a religion, whereas the atheists are susceptible to having that void filled by Islam - and Islam is far, far more evil than any pagan religion has ever been.

[Lisa]

I'm also having trouble getting worked up over a group of pagans in England celebrating their summer solstice in Stonehenge.  Pagans were not the ones who launched crusades, inquisitions, and most recently, the Holocaust.  They don't accuse us Jews of being sons of satan, and killing their deities.  Nor do they seek to convert Jews, or launch a jihad.  As long as they mind their own business in their own country, I don't care what they do. 

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "A Jew who worships the sun is an apikoris.. "

But...muman613...!

What if a Jew uses Coppertone suntan lotion with some quality sunscreen?

[muman613]

I'm also having trouble getting worked up over a group of pagans in England celebrating their summer solstice in Stonehenge.  Pagans were not the ones who launched crusades, inquisitions, and most recently, the Holocaust.  They don't accuse us Jews of being sons of satan, and killing their deities.  Nor do they seek to convert Jews, or launch a jihad.  As long as they mind their own business in their own country, I don't care what they do. 

That is not standing up for Hashems honor in this world. But I will stand up and say it is wrong to ascribe power to anything other than Hashem.

[muman613]

Re:  "A Jew who worships the sun is an apikoris.. "

But...muman613...!

What if a Jew uses Coppertone suntan lotion with some quality sunscreen?

I was waiting for that one... My uncle is one of those 'sun worshippers' too...

[Lisa]

I'm also having trouble getting worked up over a group of pagans in England celebrating their summer solstice in Stonehenge.  Pagans were not the ones who launched crusades, inquisitions, and most recently, the Holocaust.  They don't accuse us Jews of being sons of satan, and killing their deities.  Nor do they seek to convert Jews, or launch a jihad.  As long as they mind their own business in their own country, I don't care what they do. 

That is not standing up for Hashems honor in this world. But I will stand up and say it is wrong to ascribe power to anything other than Hashem.

As for standing up for Hashem's honor, us Jews should worry about our own people first.  That means dealing with the self-hating Jews in the U.S. and in Israel who think nothing of screwing over other Jews. 

[muman613]

I'm also having trouble getting worked up over a group of pagans in England celebrating their summer solstice in Stonehenge.  Pagans were not the ones who launched crusades, inquisitions, and most recently, the Holocaust.  They don't accuse us Jews of being sons of satan, and killing their deities.  Nor do they seek to convert Jews, or launch a jihad.  As long as they mind their own business in their own country, I don't care what they do. 

That is not standing up for Hashems honor in this world. But I will stand up and say it is wrong to ascribe power to anything other than Hashem.

As for standing up for Hashem's honor, us Jews should worry about our own people first.  That means dealing with the self-hating Jews in the U.S. and in Israel who think nothing of screwing over other Jews. 

By condemning behavior which goes against Torah we may be able to prevent some Jews from going down the wrong path. I agree that we must also concentrate on the important issues of politics, but worshiping powers other than Hashem will usually lead to other transgressions.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I'm also having trouble getting worked up over a group of pagans in England celebrating their summer solstice in Stonehenge.  Pagans were not the ones who launched crusades, inquisitions, and most recently, the Holocaust.  They don't accuse us Jews of being sons of satan, and killing their deities.  Nor do they seek to convert Jews, or launch a jihad.  As long as they mind their own business in their own country, I don't care what they do. 

That is not standing up for Hashems honor in this world. But I will stand up and say it is wrong to ascribe power to anything other than Hashem.

As for standing up for Hashem's honor, us Jews should worry about our own people first.  That means dealing with the self-hating Jews in Israel, the US and other places who think nothing of screwing over other Jews. 

That too, but not only.

[Lisa]

I think Jews need to be taught, starting from a very young age why it's best for them to be Jewish, rather than anything else. 

[cjd]

Pagan religion is forbidden in Torah according to several commandments. There is no way Judaism can accept Idolatry. They are mutually exclusive. Those who engage in Sun worship are considered enemies of the Jew...

We will not violently deal with them today, but the day will come when we will smash their idols.

You really  have no compassion muman.... There are some old Goys who spend half their life collecting all the necessary idols for Avodah Zarah and you want to smash them up  on them ... This is how trouble gets started  It's not easy finding all the different idols necessary for a good session of Avodah Zarah The idols are almost collectible in some cases  . More importantly let the poor sun worshippers  have their fun they aren't bothering anyone.... It could be worse they could be naked sun worshippers ... Everyone needs to leave everyone else alone and let them do their own thing... G-d will get it all figured out in the end.

[Rubystars]

I can think of a few things I'd like to smash too.

[muman613]

I detect sarcasm and humor in your writing cjd...

Of course I don't worry about it too much... But seriously if we are going to live by Torah we must accept all of it, not just that which is easy for us today...

Once again I recommend all Jews to stay away from any Avodah Zara..

[White Israelite]

I thought it is not our concern what the rest of the nations do but to separate ourselves and only deal with the issues in Israel?

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Avodah zarah is avodah zarah...  anything besides Judaism and Noachides.

[cjd]

Avodah zarah is avodah zarah...  anything besides Judaism and Noachides.

From a Jewish stand point this is very true....The problem is the vast majority of the worlds population is not Jewish.

[New Yorker]

A group of 20,000 in England, running the numbers, how many do you think were Jews that lost their minds? I'm hoping zero.

[muman613]

I thought it is not our concern what the rest of the nations do but to separate ourselves and only deal with the issues in Israel?

I believe that we are to be a light unto nations so that the entire world knows Hashem... This is the messianic prophecy..
.