Jeffguy

[Trumpeldor]

I think Chaimfan is getting a raw deal. Besides the rape comment and defense, what has he done in the past that warrants such a drastic action such as a temporary ban? 

Has he been warned repeatedly? Please provide evidence that you did so.

On this issue, it would have been better if you gave him a clear warning before you did this. You should have said, in no uncertain terms, that you would ban him if he pressed the issue.

Instead, you wrote very ambiguously "This is disturbing to me and I am questioning your position here."

[Nic Brookes]

Personal attacks? 

[Trumpeldor]

Personal attacks? 

Attacks on who? Where was the clear warning of a forthcoming ban? Or does Chaimfan's history of quality posts not enable him to deserve the benefit of the doubt?

I understand the banning of FOTL, whether or not I personally agree with it. However, the burden of proof is on you to show that Chaimfan ought to receive the same treatment.

As of right now, I am highly skeptical that putting a ban on Chaimfan was the right move.

[Allen-T]

I would like to add that Jeffguy has made me aware of a problem with Chaimfan since about 2 weeks ago. Though I haven't personally gone over the postings in question.

[Until Shiloh Comes]

I think Chaimfan is getting a raw deal.

Hello Trumpeldor, and good day to you.

Chaim fan has over a 1000 posts on this forum, and you're free to review as many of them as you like to get an indication of the theme of his most of his posts.   I have personally witnessed his implacability, distrust of other members, sewing of discord, and vicious statements first hand.   

This organization does attract "extreme" individuals for lack of a better word, but I've personally questioned how legitimate a member Chaimfan is judging by the frequency of these types of posts.

Jeffguy has shown keen judgment in my opinion on issues like these since being promoted to moderator, and I stand by his decision.   Chaimfan has been temporarily banned and issued a warning, and based on his suggestion of rape and murder as a solution to the Arab problem, I think that Jeffguy's actions were more than fair.

Chaim has already clearly stated that he has no tolerance for that type of speech, and the moderators on the JTF forum shouldn't tolerate it either.   You can state your piece here, but when you go over the top as Chaimfan did there are consequences.

[Trumpeldor]

I think Chaimfan is getting a raw deal.

Chaim fan has over a 1000 posts on this forum, and you're free to review as many of them as you like to get an indication of the theme of his most of his posts.   

I know what type of posts Chaimfan typically makes. I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says and I have actually posted in support of many of his positions.

I have personally witnessed his implacability, distrust of other members, sewing of discord, and vicious statements first hand. 

Is implacability a bannable offense? Is distrust of other members a bannable offense, given the inordinate amount of trolls we seem to attract? You may interpret it as "sewing of discord" but I view it as vigilance with the best interests of the forum in mind. You seem to think that Chaimfan has ulterior motives? Where is the proof?

This organization does attract "extreme" individuals for lack of a better word, but I've personally questioned how legitimate a member Chaimfan is judging by the frequency of these types of posts.

You're entitled to that view. But so is Chaimfan with respect to his views on other posters.

based on his suggestion of rape and murder as a solution to the Arab problem, I think that Jeffguy's action were more than fair.

If you think he is mistaken in his beliefs, why not have a rational discussion with him? Why not educate him? Why ban him? Sure his comments were extreme, but to be fair, a lot of extreme views are being propagated here. Where do we draw the line? If the line has been drawn here, Chaimfan at least deserved a fair warning-something he did not get. 

[Trumpeldor]

I would like to add that Jeffguy has made me aware of a problem with Chaimfan since about 2 weeks ago. Though I haven't personally gone over the postings in question.

Sounds like a personal feud. I feel I speak for most posters when I say that Chaimfan was loved!

[Nic Brookes]

When was he banned? I didn't see it. Where is the post?

In the past, Chaim has said that Chaimfan SHOULD NOT be banned.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.30

[MarZutra]

I dont' think he is banned yet.  I don't think he should be banned but if he has any personal beefs with any other members both of those member should have it out privately on their emails instead of on the forum for all others to see.  Perhaps Yacov might email the two of these fellows and find some sort of aimable outcome...  We cannot go banning everyone whom we disagree with.  Bannings should only be used for the most blatant anti-semites and other sub-human filth...

[Trumpeldor]

I dont' think he is banned yet.  I don't think he should be banned but if he has any personal beefs with any other members both of those member should have it out privately on their emails instead of on the forum for all others to see.  Perhaps Yacov might email the two of these fellows and find some sort of aimable outcome...  We cannot go banning everyone whom we disagree with.  Bannings should only be used for the most blatant anti-semites and other sub-human filth...

I agree. If given the choice of repudiating his statement or facing a ban, I have no doubt that Chaimfan would have seen the wisdom in letting it go. Rather, I believe he was setup by not being given a clear, specific warning.

[MarZutra]

Agreed. Trump...  Oh by the way nice choice of name... very good...

[dawntreader]

While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.

It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing.

If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.

[Allen-T]

While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.

It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing.

If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.

He really said this? Doesn't he claim to be a christian? 

[MarZutra]

While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.

It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing.

If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.

This is all new to me and quite logical and moral thinking.  Perhaps a warning by Yacov would be acceptable.  Enough on this topic from Ol-MZ...  You fellows will sort it out morally and logically I'm sure..

[ftf]

He currently has a temporary ban, he is banned for one week, and he has been warned, it is not permanent yet.


The following are the reasons why he has been warned and temporarily banned:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35909#msg35909
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35981#msg35981

[Trumpeldor]

While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.

It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing.

If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.

You just blatantly contradicted yourself. You claim you don't know that Chaimfan should have been banned and then you go on to say that this type of speech is unacceptable to you.

In any case, you and Jeffguy do not speak for me, nor do you speak for the majority of the posters on this forum.

[Trumpeldor]

He currently has a temporary ban, he is banned for one week, and he has been warned, it is not permanent yet.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35909#msg35909
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35981#msg35981

BOLLOCKS! (I know you're British)

[Allen-T]

While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.

It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing.

If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.

You just blatantly contradicted yourself. You claim you don't know that Chaimfan should have been banned and then you go on to say that this type of speech is unacceptable to you.

In any case, you and Jeffguy do not speak for me, nor do you speak for the majority of the posters on this forum.

That's not a contradiction, it simply seems to me to question whether the punishment fit the crime.

[dawntreader]

You just blatantly contradicted yourself. You claim you don't know that Chaimfan should have been banned and then you go on to say that this type of speech is unacceptable to you.

In any case, you and Jeffguy do not speak for me, nor do you speak for the majority of the posters on this forum.

I actually did not contradict myself. Chaimfan could have been warned, and he could curtail some of the more extreme things he says in the future.

[Trumpeldor]

While I do not know that Chaimfan should have been banned. I do understand it. Jeffguy and I both were disgusted with comments Chaimfan made regarding hanging men in the streets, raping women and then executing them, and killing little kids.

It was the comments about raping women and then executing them that were entirely disturbing.

If this kind of speech is allowed here, then I will resign as a moderator immediately and JTF will lose me for sure. This is supposed to be a religious organization, and while I am not Orthodox I cannot fathom how anything in Chaimfan's posting remotely would be pleasing to HaShem.

You just blatantly contradicted yourself. You claim you don't know that Chaimfan should have been banned and then you go on to say that this type of speech is unacceptable to you.

In any case, you and Jeffguy do not speak for me, nor do you speak for the majority of the posters on this forum.

That's not a contradiction, it simply seems to me to question whether the punishment fit the crime.

If you question whether the punishment fits the crime, then you do not fully 'understand' the banning as Dawntreader claimed he did.

[ftf]

He currently has a temporary ban, he is banned for one week, and he has been warned, it is not permanent yet.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35909#msg35909
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35981#msg35981

BOLLOCKS! (I know you're British)

Ok, what are you trying to say here? I'm just stating that facts of the matter, what does my being british have to do with it at all?

[Trumpeldor]

He currently has a temporary ban, he is banned for one week, and he has been warned, it is not permanent yet.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35909#msg35909
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35981#msg35981

BOLLOCKS! (I know you're British)

Ok, what are you trying to say here? I'm just stating that facts of the matter, what does my being british have to do with it at all?

That just symbolizes how I feel about it and you being British is simply a coincidence.

[Allen-T]

He currently has a temporary ban, he is banned for one week, and he has been warned, it is not permanent yet.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35909#msg35909
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=4751.msg35981#msg35981

BOLLOCKS! (I know you're British)

Ok, what are you trying to say here? I'm just stating that facts of the matter, what does my being british have to do with it at all?

Yeah, my grandfather is British!!

[Trumpeldor]

You just blatantly contradicted yourself. You claim you don't know that Chaimfan should have been banned and then you go on to say that this type of speech is unacceptable to you.

In any case, you and Jeffguy do not speak for me, nor do you speak for the majority of the posters on this forum.

I actually did not contradict myself. Chaimfan could have been warned, and he could curtail some of the more extreme things he says in the future.

Get off the fence. You clearly support the banning and are playing good cop/bad cop to enhance your appeal .

[Until Shiloh Comes]

I know what type of posts Chaimfan typically makes. I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says and I have actually posted in support of many of his positions.

I have personally witnessed his implacability, distrust of other members, sewing of discord, and vicious statements first hand. 

Is implacability a bannable offense? Is distrust of other members a bannable offense, given the inordinate amount of trolls we seem to attract? You may interpret it as "sewing of discord" but I view it as vigilance with the best interests of the forum in mind. You seem to think that Chaimfan has ulterior motives? Where is the proof?

Hello Trumpeldor, and good day.

I answered the question in my next sentence.   Quoting, and replying to every statement destroys context, and is more appropriate for an argumentative exchange than a discussion.

It's context Trumpeldor. 

None of these offenses are bannable offenses in and of themselves.  But taking Chaimfan's history of posts in the context of his deplorable call for rape and murder is more than enough for a temporary ban in my opinion.   And I don't believe that every act by a moderator here should be challenged by the forum members, which seems to be the case with the recent actions against FOTL, and Chaimfan.   

This is clearly one of the most tolerant boards on the Internet, and it takes a lot to warrant disciplinary actions here.  We shouldn't create the impression that there's a rift between the moderators and the users here, and I'm afraid threads like these do precisely that

This organization does attract "extreme" individuals for lack of a better word, but I've personally questioned how legitimate a member Chaimfan is judging by the frequency of these types of posts.

You're entitled to that view. But so is Chaimfan with respect to his views on other posters.

Context.