Jeffguy

[Trumpeldor]

It's context Trumpeldor. 

None of these offenses are bannable offenses in and of themselves.  But taking Chaimfan's history of posts in the context of his deplorable call for rape and murder is more than enough for a temporary ban in my opinion.   And I don't believe that every act by a moderator here should be challenged by the forum members, which seems to be the case with the recent actions against FOTL, and Chaimfan.   

This is clearly one of the most tolerant boards on the Internet, and it takes a lot to warrant disciplinary actions here.  We shouldn't create the impression that there's a rift between the moderators and the users here, and I'm afraid threads like these do precisely that

Why are we using Chaimfan's history of posts against him? You seem to be a big fan of context. Shouldn't each offense be considered in context?

I believe that forum members should challenge every action by a moderator that they disapprove of. That is how we dialogue with each other. Since JTF is a civil rights organization, we are all about having a dialogue. 

Personally, this is the only time I have taken issue with a decision by the moderators (or in this case, a single moderator). So it is not as if I am guilty of habitually causing a stir. On the Fruit situation, I felt conflicted, so I did not challenge anyone's decision.

It does not bother me if people get the impression of a rift. I am willing to forget about all of this if Chaimfan is duly reinstated. I would rather our future JTF'ers know that it is ok to challenge authority and let your voice be heard when confronted with injustice.   

[ftf]

He is only banned for a week, in a weeks time he will be back, if he wants to be.

[Trumpeldor]

He is only banned for a week, in a weeks time he will be back, if he wants to be.

I will see to it that he is back by Sunday night.

[ftf]

Last I knew, Allen-T and Yacov were the administrators on this forum, not Trumpeldor.

[Until Shiloh Comes]

Why are we using Chaimfan's history of posts against him? You seem to be a big fan of context. Shouldn't each offense be considered in context?

That's precisely what Jeffguy did.   He took Chaimfan's post calling for rape and murder in the context of his other contributions here, and felt a week long ban was warranted.   

I believe that forum members should challenge every action by a moderator that they disapprove of.

Feel free to post this destructive statement in the ASK JTF forum as well, and again, let Chaim Ben Pesach -- who seems to be the only voice you respect -- tell you what he thinks of that.

[Trumpeldor]

Last I knew, Allen-T and Yacov were the administrators on this forum, not Trumpeldor.

Yacov does not support the decision, ftf.

[Trumpeldor]

Why are we using Chaimfan's history of posts against him? You seem to be a big fan of context. Shouldn't each offense be considered in context?

That's precisely what Jeffguy did.   He took Chaimfan's post calling for rape and murder in the context of his other contributions here, and felt a week long ban was warranted.   

I believe that forum members should challenge every action by a moderator that they disapprove of.

Feel free to post this destructive statement in the ASK JTF forum as well, and again, let Chaim Ben Pesach -- who seems to be the only voice you respect -- tell you what he thinks of that.

You are distorting the meaning of context. If he was to have truly taken Chaimfan's statement in context, he would have realized that Chaimfan was merely attempting to be argumentative instead of evil. His use of 'context' was merely personal bias.

Again, I've already posted my unfiltered thoughts on the matter on the Ask JTF thread.

[Until Shiloh Comes]

You are distorting the meaning of context.

Trumpeldor,

Quite the contrary, it is you who hasn't not understood the real implications of context.

Regarding the harsh measure of banning, context does not mean taking a particular statement in the context of a particular thread; that, my friend, would be stepping over the line, and unfair.   You don't seem to grasp that.   

Context for such an extreme measure means taking a statement in the framework of someone's overall contributions, and jeffguy can more than easily make that case himself.

 

[Trumpeldor]

You are distorting the meaning of context.

Trumpeldor,

Quite the contrary, it is you who hasn't not understood the real implications of context.

Regarding the harsh measure of banning, context does not mean taking a particular statement in the context of a particular thread; that, my friend, would be stepping over the line, and unfair.   You don't seem to grasp that.   

Context for such an extreme measure means taking a statement in the framework of someone's overall contributions, and jeffguy can more than easily make that case himself.

 

If one was taking in the "framework of someone's overall contributions", as you propose, there is even less justification for banning Chaimfan. If you recall even a single Ask JTF program, I think that you would concede that Chaim ben Pesach has characterized Chaimfan as astute, expressive, and a significant poster.

[Daniel]

I think what Chaimfan said was inappropriate. However, I don't think he should be banned.

[Until Shiloh Comes]

If one was taking in the "framework of someone's overall contributions", as you propose, there is even less justification for banning Chaimfan. If you recall even a single Ask JTF program, I think that you would concede that Chaim ben Pesach has characterized Chaimfan as astute, expressive, and a significant poster.

Indeed, and ChaimFan is worthy of those compliments.  FOTL was also an extremely intelligent, and expressive poster who Chaim had remarked positively about, yet still he agreed that his banishment was warranted.

Chaim has the ability to see things in their proper context, and I believe  he'll agree with the week-long banning of Chaimfan.   I'm still waiting on you to put your money where your mouth is, and tell Chaim in the ASK JTF forum the same degrading things you've said about the moderators on this board.

[Trumpeldor]

If one was taking in the "framework of someone's overall contributions", as you propose, there is even less justification for banning Chaimfan. If you recall even a single Ask JTF program, I think that you would concede that Chaim ben Pesach has characterized Chaimfan as astute, expressive, and a significant poster.

Indeed, and ChaimFan is worthy of those compliments.  FOTL was also an extremely intelligent, and expressive poster who Chaim had remarked positively about, yet still he agreed that his banishment was warranted.

Chaim has the ability to see things in their proper context, and I believe  he'll agree with the week-long banning of Chaimfan.   I'm still waiting on you to put your money where your mouth is, and tell Chaim in the ASK JTF forum the same degrading things you've said about the moderators on this board.

I have nothing against you or any of the moderators as a person, UntilShilohComes. If people who have responsibility cannot take criticism, they should reconsider their job as a moderator or grow some thicker skin.

[Until Shiloh Comes]

Trumpeldor,

As for myself I'm not personally offended, or angry over your remarks, and we at JTF always invite criticism.   I see you as a friend, and as long as you support JTF, which I honestly believe you do, I'll always view you as a brother. But it you can't take rebuttals and challenges to your criticism, I suggest you take heed to your own advice.   You've leveled some very harsh criticisms, and I'd like those sentiments to be posted, uncut, in the ASK JTF Forum.

[Trumpeldor]

Trumpeldor,

As for myself I'm not personally offended, or angry over your remarks, and we at JTF always invite criticism.   I see you as a friend, and as long as you support JTF, which I honestly believe you do, I'll always view you as a brother. But it you can't take rebuttals and challenges to your criticism, I suggest you take heed to your own advice.   You've leveled some very harsh criticisms, and I'd like those sentiments to be posted, uncut, in the ASK JTF Forum.

I don't want to make it seem that I am pushing those exact sentiments beyond what is required to meet the ends of my argument. I have made myself clear this afternoon. It is my hope that Chaimfan will be reinstated ASAP and that future episodes like this will not occur, due to a new framework for moderator decision-making.

[Daniel]

I get the feeling Chaim is going to spend about 20-30 minutes expressing his grievances on the forum before he even gets to our questions. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

[Trumpeldor]

I get the feeling Chaim is going to spend about 20-30 minutes expressing his grievances on the forum before he even gets to our questions. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

What grievances should he have? Aren't the moderators supposed to be making his job easier?

[Daniel]

I get the feeling Chaim is going to spend about 20-30 minutes expressing his grievances on the forum before he even gets to our questions. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

What grievances should he have? Aren't the moderators supposed to be making his job easier?

Yes, excellent point! I hope you're right.

[nessuno]

Being banned for a week is not the end of the world!
Maybe he can get a reduced ban - he should look up Paris Hilton's attorney.  

[DownwithIslam]

Ok, this is Chaim Ben Pesachs forum, don't forget that. He himself said that he respects Chaimfan alot and said that he is a supporter of him on an ask jtf show about a month back. Why the hell has Chaimfan been banned if Chaim himself wants him here. I think certain moderators are trying to flex their muscles in the same manner as shvartzas when they are made managers over whites do. Quite shameful and I think only Yaacov and Jimmy should have the final say on who is banned.

[Trumpeldor]

Ok, this is Chaim Ben Pesachs forum, don't forget that. He himself said that he respects Chaimfan alot and said that he is a supporter of him on an ask jtf show about a month back. Why the hell has Chaimfan been banned if Chaim himself wants him here. I think certain moderators are trying to flex their muscles in the same manner shvartzas when they are made mangers over whites do. Quite shameful and I think only Yaacov and Jimmy should have the final say on who is banned.

DownWithIslam, I commend you.

It has been a very lonely afternoon/evening on this forum for me, trying to defend our one and only Chaimfan. I pray that he is back by Sunday night for Ask JTF.

[DownwithIslam]

Trumpledor, I don't think every moderator should be given authority to ban members. Many of the moderators are banning people based on their own beliefs when we are dealing with an organization here. Yacov menashe who started this forum and Jimmy should be the only ones banning people. I actually think Chaimfan is too moderate. He never made any death threats or anything, and he certainly hasn't jeaporadized this movement.
His posts are always interesting and he is never afraid to expose kappos and other beasts. If someone is not right wing enough, he should not be a moderator. If I were in control, the only sure ban would be if a Muslim comes on here. 

[Trumpeldor]

Trumpledor, I don't think every moderator should be given authority to ban members. Many of the moderators are banning people based on their own beliefs when we are dealing with an organization here.

I think many of the moderators truly believe they have the best interests of JTF at heart, but as we saw in the Fruit situation, it can polarizing fiasco and it appears that we have not learned our lesson.

Yacov menashe who started this forum and Jimmy should be the only ones banning people. I actually think Chaimfan is too moderate. He never made any death threats or anything, and he certainly hasn't jeaporadized this movement.

This would work. Or a new policy can be implemented for a centralized command, cooperation, and consensus. We are not even that big yet but it is needed!

His posts are always interesting and he is never afraid to expose kappos and other beasts.

You're right. He is a fearless and eloquent defender of JTF's ideals. Anyone who would argue the opposite is a fool.

[Manch]

I always like Chaimfan questions. Why do you want to ban him!?

[Allen-T]

Only administrators have the power to ban. Moderators cannot ban people. What do you suppose should be the correct way to deal with someone that advocates raping women and killing children? I am all for a second chance but people who believe that this behavior is acceptable, whether stated or not, are not people I for one want any association with, ESPECIALLY if they call themselves Christians.

[cjd]

Only administrators have the power to ban. Moderators cannot ban people. What do you suppose should be the correct way to deal with someone that advocates raping women and killing children? I am all for a second chance but people who believe that this behavior is acceptable, whether stated or not, are not people I for one want any association with, ESPECIALLY if they call themselves Christians.

Exactly!!! If we condone that type of talk by forum members we bring ourselves down to the level of the very people we despise.