Best military leaders in history?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I think Judah the Maccabee (along with his brothers Jonathan and Shimon), Bar Kochva, Joshua, Joab son of Zeruiah,  Hannibal, Alexander the Great, Julius Caeser, Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Douglas McArthur, Charles Lee, Georgy Zhukov, K.K Rokosovky, Helmut von Moltke the elder, Scipio Africanus, Erwin Rommel, Heinz Guderian, Erich von Manstein, John Pershing, Karl Donitz, Isoroku Yamamoto, Kublay Khan, Hulagu Khan, Tamerlane, Carl the Great, Fredreich Barbarossa, Alexander Nevsky and Cortes the Conquistador.

What do you think? 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The Nazis were not great military leaders. They had a cakewalk in the early years of WWII because no other nation was fully prepared for mass murder like they were. They conquered a lot for the same reason that Hezbollah won in 2006, because their opponents did not eat, sleep, breathe, and train for genocide.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

The Nazis were not great military leaders. They had a cakewalk in the early years of WWII because no other nation was fully prepared for mass murder like they were. They conquered a lot for the same reason that Hezbollah won in 2006, because their opponents did not eat, sleep, breathe, and train for genocide.

I disagree. Technically, all of their major rivals (the Soviets, the French, the British and the Americans) were well-armed and well-trained (yes, the Soviets were).  The Soviets started fighting back already in 1942 when von Manstein was still in the scene and so was his counterpart Rommel who fought well in the North African front. Both fought very professionaly and had very impressing records before the rise of Nazi Germany.

Hezbollah, with all due respect, are professional fighters. Nazis, but well-trained and well-armed Nazis. Of course they can't stand a Judean army that wants to defeat them, but unlike Hamas, they know how to fight.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I disagree. Technically, all of their major rivals (the Soviets, the French, the British and the Americans) were well-armed and well-trained (yes, the Soviets were).  The Soviets started fighting back already in 1942 when von Manstein was still in the scene and so was his counterpart Rommel who fought well in the North African front. Both fought very professionaly and had very impressing records before the rise of Nazi Germany.

Hezbollah, with all due respect, are professional fighters. Nazis, but well-trained and well-armed Nazis. Of course they can't stand a Judean army that wants to defeat them, but unlike Hamas, they know how to fight.

The British had a well-trained and professional army, but they were vastly outnumbered/equipped by the Germans. British culture just didn't breathe, dream, and crap mass murder like German (or Arab) Nazis did, so they did not devote 75% of their GDP to the military. The French had a larger standing army than the Germans, true, but they were pathetic, cowardly worms who did not have the stomach to resist after their experience in WWI. The Americans weren't even in the picture until late 1941 thanks to the America First (or as I call them, America Fister) Nazis. The Soviet Nazis were an utter mess because of their greater relative primitivity and, especially, Stalin's purges of the Soviet military. The early days of Barbarossa were a joke, and only the Russian winter saved them. If it were not for Lend-Lease and the Allied second fronts and air war, every last Russian Nazi would be the beotch of the German Nazis.

You are sadly correct about Hezbollah--Nazis or not, they learned to put the ridiculous "martyr for Allah" nonsense of Hamas/PLO behind and adopted modern infantry/artillery tactics. But they only got to be the force they are because (1) Israeli culture is not obsessed with death and killing and (2) because of Sharon and Olmert's ridiculous defense cuts and scalebacks in IDF training.

[mord]

Look carefully at  Erich von Manstein's history   





http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0902663/bio









Date of Birth
24 November 1887, Berlin, Germany

Date of Death
10 June 1973, Irschenhausen, Bavaria, West Germany

Birth Name
Erich von Lewinsky

Height
5' 11¼" (1.81 m)

Mini Biography

Born Erich von Lewinski of Polish extraction, von Manstein was adopted by his mother's sister and her husband and took their family name. He passed out of the Cadet Corps in 1906 and saw some service in France on the Western front during World War I before going into the War Academy. From 1920 to 1937, von Manstein held various staff posts where he rose through the ranks of major, colonel and finally major-general. He first came into prominence in 1939 where he was promoted to general and commanded the 38th Infantry Corps where he masterminded the "Manstein Plan" for the invasion of France the next year. The German invasion of the USSR in 1941 gave von Manstein what he most craved: the command of the 56th Panzer Corps from June 22 to September 13 until he was given command of the 11th Army Corp for the long campaign in the Crimea. Von Manstein launched the siege and capture of Sevastopol (June 7-July 3, 1942) where he was promoted to field marshal. His first job as field marshal was the command of Army Group Don in a relief drive to Stalingrad in December 12-23, 1942 which failed. From February 20-March 18,1943, von Manstein's hour and the highlight of his military career had come when he skillfully launched a counter-attack against the Soviet armies in the Third Battle of Kharkov, recapturing the city, destroying three Soviet armies, and temporarily halting the Soviet advance. But at the Battle of Kursk in July 4-17, 1943, he was defeated by superior Soviet numbers and afterwards fought a series of well-executed withdrawals, always against Hitler's orders never to give up an inch of ground. In April 1944, Hitler, having apparently grown tired of this brilliant but troublesome field marshal, relieved von Manstein of his commands and forced him into retirement for the rest of the war. Von Manstein is remembered for being one of the very few German commanders who was prepared to confront Hitler. Unlike other German officers, he was one who put his views in perspective, spoke objectively, and refused to be browbeaten. On February 24, 1950, von Manstein was tried and sentenced to 18 years in prison on two charges of war crimes on the Eastern Front, which was later commuted to 12 years. But he was released on parole on May 6, 1953. In 1959, he published his memoirs, 'Lost Victories' detailing all about his military career. Erich von Manstein from then on lived in obscure retirement in West Germany until his death in 1973 at age 85.
IMDb Mini Biography By: Matthew Patay

Spouse
Jutta Sybille von Loesch    (1920 - ?) 3 children

Trivia

Field Marshal of Germany's Army Group Don on the Eastern Front in the Soviet Union from 1942 to 1944.

As a joke, Manstein's pet dachshund, named Knirps ("Midget"), was trained to raise his paw in salute on the command "Heil Hitler!".

To his most trusted colleagues, Manstein admitted to having had Jewish antecedents.

In 1942, Manstein had a luxurious headquarters train of wagons-lits -- a "drawing room on wheels" which had belonged to the Queen of Yugoslavia.

[eb22]

George Washington very likely belongs on a list of the greatest military leaders in history.    The 13 Colonies overcame long odds to win Independence from Great Britain,   arguably the # 1 Superpower in world in the 18th Century.   

[Ulli]

Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.

[ItalianZionist]

The British had the largest empire the world has ever known.
2nd...Ghengis  Khan  or his sons
3rd....maybe Alexander the great
4th.....The Romans


I guess this says something about their military leaders. But Alexander the great (even though gay) you must admit was incredible to conquer from Europe to India and Persia.

It's incredible how the Romans conquered everyone around them in their hey day. I wonder why everyone was weak compared to them, unfortunate that they were evil.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.

Was he a Nazi?

[syyuge]

All empires at their greatest extent
British Empire - 33.7 million km2 (1922)[2]
Mongol Empire - 33.0 million km2 (1270 or 1309)[3][4]
Russian Empire - 23.7 million km2 (1866)[3][4]
Spanish Empire - 20.0 million km2 (ca. 1740-1790)[5]
Qing Empire, China - 14.7 million km2 (1790)[3][4]
Yuan Dynasty - 14.0 million km2 (1310)[4]
Umayyad Caliphate - 13.0 million km2 (720 or 750)[6]
Second French Colonial Empire - 12.3 million km2 (1938)[5]
Abbasid Caliphate - 11.1 million km2 (750)[4]
Portuguese Empire - 10.4 million km2 (1815)[5]
American Empire - 9.8 million km2 (1899)[4]
Rashidun Caliphate - 9.0 million km2 (654)[4][7]
Empire of Brazil - 8.5 million km2 (1880)[5]
Achaemenid Empire, Persia - 8.0 million km2 (480 BC)[8]
Japanese Empire - 7.4 million km2 (1942)[5]
Han Empire, China - 6.5 million km2 (100)[9]
Roman Empire - 6.5 million km2 (117)[10]
Ming Empire, China - 6.5 million km2 (1450)[3][4]
Göktürk Khaganate - 6.0 million km2 (557)[3][9]
Golden Horde Khanate - 6.0 million km2 (1310)[3][4]
Uyghur Khaganate - 5.5 million km2 (800)[3][4]
Tang Empire, China - 5.4 million km2 (715)[3][4]
Macedonian Empire - 5.2 million km2 (323 BC)[3][11]
Ottoman Empire - 5.2 million km2 (1683, 1829 or 1850)[3][4]
Fatimid Caliphate - 5.1 million km2 (969)[3][4]
Maurya Empire, India - 5.0 million km2 (250 BC)[3]
Northern Yuan Dynasty (Oirats), Mongolia - 5.0 million km2 (1550)[4]
Xin Dynasty, China - 4.7 million km2 (10)[9]
Tufan (Tibet) Empire - 4.6 million km2 (800)[3][4]
Pala Empire, India - 4.6 million km2 (850)
Timurid Empire - 4.6 million km2 (1405)[3][4]
Mughal Empire, India - 4.6 million km2 (1690)[3][4]
First Mexican Empire - 4.4 million km2 (1822)[citation needed]
Xiongnu Empire - 4.03 million km2 (176 BC)[12]
Hunnic Empire - 4.0 million km2 (441)[9]
Hepthalite Khanate (White Huns), India - 4.0 million km2 (490)[9]
Eastern Turks Khanate - 4.0 million km2 (624)[9]
Afsharid Dynasty, Persia - 4.0 million km2 (1747)[citation needed]
Western Turks Khanate- 4.0 million km2 (630)[9]
Rouran Khaganate (Juan-juan) - 4.0 million km2 (AD 405)[3][9]
Seleucid Empire - 3.9 million km2 (301 BC)[3][11]
Great Seljuq Empire - 3.9 million km2 (1080)[3][4]
Italian Empire - 3.8 million km2 (1940)[citation needed]
Kushan Empire, India- 3.8 million km2 (200)[9]
Ilkhanate - 3.75 million km2 (1310)[3][4]
Dutch Empire - 3.7 million km2(1940)[citation needed]
Chola Dynasty, India - 3.6 million km2 (1050)[citation needed]
Khwarazmian Empire - 3.6 million km2 (1218)[4]
Nazi Germany - 3.6 million km2 (1942)[citation needed]
Sassanid Empire, Persia - 3.5 million km2 (620)[3]
Gupta Empire, India - 3.5 million km2 (400)[3]
Chagatai Khanate - 3.5 million km2 (1310 or 1350)[3][4]
Safavid Dynasty, Persia - 3.5 million km2 (1512)[citation needed]
German Empire - 3.5 million km2 (1914)[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire

[Ulli]

Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.

Was he a Nazi?

  No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia

[Zelhar]

I think Arthur Wellesley (The Duke of Wellington) must be in the short list. Napoleon was a gambler, and he also was completely negligent of the logistical aspects of war. Wellesley on the other hand was a master of logistics, and he preferred defensive battles, really the mirror image of Napoleon.

In ancient times, I think Alexander was the greatest. Then Hannibal, Caesar, and Scipio.

With all due respect to the David, Joshua, or the Maccabees, their accomplishment on the field of battle just don't match anything near the great conquerors of old. I would say that Bar Kochva was one of the greatest guerrilla leaders of the ancient times.

[Ulli]

The Nazis were not great military leaders. They had a cakewalk in the early years of WWII because no other nation was fully prepared for mass murder like they were. They conquered a lot for the same reason that Hezbollah won in 2006, because their opponents did not eat, sleep, breathe, and train for genocide.

I disagree. Technically, all of their major rivals (the Soviets, the French, the British and the Americans) were well-armed and well-trained (yes, the Soviets were).  The Soviets started fighting back already in 1942 when von Manstein was still in the scene and so was his counterpart Rommel who fought well in the North African front. Both fought very professionaly and had very impressing records before the rise of Nazi Germany.

Hezbollah, with all due respect, are professional fighters. Nazis, but well-trained and well-armed Nazis. Of course they can't stand a Judean army that wants to defeat them, but unlike Hamas, they know how to fight.

The Iranian Mullahs have trained their Hizbollah allies. I have heard, that the Libanese quranimals have even Iranian regular officers in their ranks.

[mord]

Imo the greatest was Friedrich II of Prussia. In all fields he was the greatest.

Was he a Nazi?

  No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia

I don't mean to laugh Dr.Brennan Fan but he was a Prussian .He lived before Germany was Germany

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "I don't mean to laugh Dr.Brennan Fan but he was a Prussian .He lived before Germany was Germany "

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE WAS A RUSSIAN?   

ARE YOU PROMOTING COMMONISM HERE ON THE FORUM?   

[mord]

Re:  "I don't mean to laugh Dr.Brennan Fan but he was a Prussian .He lived before Germany was Germany "

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE WAS A RUSSIAN?   

ARE YOU PROMOTING COMMONISM HERE ON THE FORUM?   

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia

I did not literally mean a member of the NSDAP between the 1920s and 40s lol--I meant was he an anti-Semite.

[mord]

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_II_of_Prussia

I did not literally mean a member of the NSDAP between the 1920s and 40s lol--I meant was he an anti-Semite.

They were dhimmis under Fredrick II                 




http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/germany.html   




In essence, the Jews agreed to become the property of whichever ruler granted them a protective charter. This agreement occurred on the largest scale in 1236, when Emperor Frederick II issued the Servi Camerae Nostrae (“Servants of the Treasury”), which formally made the Jews the property of the empire. Implicit in the charter agreements was the fact that the charter could be rescinded whenever the ruler of the region wished – and the regional rulers frequently did so.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

OK, so he was a semi-Nazi.

[Ulli]

OK, so he was a semi-Nazi.

Mord confuses Frederick of Hohenstaufen with Frederick of Hohenzollern.

Hey all of you people here don't know the old Fritz?

[Rubystars]

For goodness sake folks let countries have their national heroes without always second-guessing everything.

[Zelhar]

OK, so he was a semi-Nazi.

Mord confuses Frederick of Hohenstaufen with Frederick of Hohenzollern.

Hey all of you people here don't know the old Fritz?

Indeed he was a brilliant tactician, but also lucky.

As for his dealing with the Jews, he was a tolerant ruler, for his times. This is what he had apparently wrote about Jews:

We have too many Jews in the towns. They are needed on the Polish border because in these areas Hebrews alone perform trade. As soon as you get away from the frontier, the Jews become a disadvantage, they form cliques, they deal in contraband and get up to all manner of rascally tricks which are detrimental to Christian burghers and merchants. I have never persecuted anyone from this or any other sect [sic]; I think, however, it would be prudent to pay attention, so that their numbers do not increase.

[The One and Only Mo]

Gotta go with the ones with no values (Hezbollah) and the one who used elephants (Hannibal). ELEPHANTS!

[Ulli]

Was there a special relation between Polish people and Jews? The Jews seem to have access to Polish economy, the other people seemed to have not.

All in all it seems too, that Frederick judges the people after the grade of usefullness for him.

This contrabande thing is the only one in the list of his accusations I would see as criminal. The other things in the list are imo things that all people do inclusive me. Ha ha ha

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

He was jealous and resentful of Jewish skill in business, like all other Europeans. He wasn't as bad as Martin Luther or Pat Buchanan, but he doesn't sound like a righteous Gentile by any stretch.