The Amona pogrom

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Look at how these SS soldiers go rampage, lynch and attack even girls and children. Every soldier that took part is worse than a Nazi.

[Secularbeliever]

I don't like using terms such as pogrom and holocaust loosely but Amona was a disgrace for the government.  I heard about settlers throwing cynder blocks at the Yassam thugs.  I am sorry if none of them hit the targets.  Three Knesset members hospitalized.  Underage girls molested.  Caroline Glick wrote that an American military official who watched Amona said if this type of thing continued the IDF would become useless for defending Israel.  Ohlmert and Livni should have been put on trial for that.

[Yaakov Mendel]

Ron, I agree these images are shocking and I certainly do not support this brutal eviction (nor any eviction of Jews from their land, whether brutal or not...). However, when you say these soldiers are SS and worse than Nazis...If they were SS (or Muslim Nazis), there would not have remained anyone alive there, they would have shot everyone with machine gun. So I don't think we can equate these Israeli soldiers with Nazis.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Ron, I agree these images are shocking and I certainly do not support this brutal eviction (nor any eviction of Jews from their land, whether brutal or not...). However, when you say these soldiers are SS and worse than Nazis...If they were SS (or Muslim Nazis), there would not have remained anyone alive there, they would have shot everyone with machine gun. So I don't think we can equate these Israeli soldiers with Nazis.

A traitor is always worse than an enemy. We can't expect anything from an enemy but from a fellow Jew...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I don't like using terms such as pogrom and holocaust loosely

Why not? what's the difference between a Jew doing that and a Gentile doing that?

[Secularbeliever]

I don't like using terms such as pogrom and holocaust loosely

Why not? what's the difference between a Jew doing that and a Gentile doing that?

The obvious difference is that one involved mass murder and slavery.  I had a family friend who had an arm shot off in the camps.  I had a cousin who spent four years in the camps who lived the rest of his life with the numbers on his arms.  They were not even among the six million slaughtered by the Nazi beasts.  As bad as Amona was, it was not in that category.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't like using terms such as pogrom and holocaust loosely

Why not? what's the difference between a Jew doing that and a Gentile doing that?

The obvious difference is that one involved mass murder and slavery.  I had a family friend who had an arm shot off in the camps.  I had a cousin who spent four years in the camps who lived the rest of his life with the numbers on his arms.  They were not even among the six million slaughtered by the Nazi beasts.  As bad as Amona was, it was not in that category.

Before there were camps there were deportations and brutal evictions.   

This could be exactly the type of deportation that preceded sending Jews to concentration camps.  Haven't you seen the films where Jews are rounded up and put into cattle cars during the liquidation of ghettos? 

The Israeli govt knows that putting Jews into concentration camps after expelling them would be a public relations nightmare, so instead, they put them into run-down trailer parks called "temporary housing" and they are hoping they will die there of medical maladies, depression, and other afflictions brought on by their ruined lives.  Aside from rampant unemployment, medical affliction and depression rates are through the roof with former gush katif expellees.   

To round up Jews for expulsion or murder is a nazi strategy.   This time Jews carried it out against other Jewish victims.

[Yaakov Mendel]

Ron, I agree these images are shocking and I certainly do not support this brutal eviction (nor any eviction of Jews from their land, whether brutal or not...). However, when you say these soldiers are SS and worse than Nazis...If they were SS (or Muslim Nazis), there would not have remained anyone alive there, they would have shot everyone with machine gun. So I don't think we can equate these Israeli soldiers with Nazis.

A traitor is always worse than an enemy. We can't expect anything from an enemy but from a fellow Jew...

I agree with you. These soldiers make me sick. They behaved like pigs.

[Secularbeliever]

I don't like using terms such as pogrom and holocaust loosely

Why not? what's the difference between a Jew doing that and a Gentile doing that?

The obvious difference is that one involved mass murder and slavery.  I had a family friend who had an arm shot off in the camps.  I had a cousin who spent four years in the camps who lived the rest of his life with the numbers on his arms.  They were not even among the six million slaughtered by the Nazi beasts.  As bad as Amona was, it was not in that category.

Before there were camps there were deportations and brutal evictions.   

This could be exactly the type of deportation that preceded sending Jews to concentration camps.  Haven't you seen the films where Jews are rounded up and put into cattle cars during the liquidation of ghettos? 

The Israeli govt knows that putting Jews into concentration camps after expelling them would be a public relations nightmare, so instead, they put them into run-down trailer parks called "temporary housing" and they are hoping they will die there of medical maladies, depression, and other afflictions brought on by their ruined lives.  Aside from rampant unemployment, medical affliction and depression rates are through the roof with former gush katif expellees.   

To round up Jews for expulsion or murder is a nazi strategy.   This time Jews carried it out against other Jewish victims.

I am not going to defend the Israeli government in its evictions of Jews but this is nonsense.  The Jews of Gush Katif were not put onto cattle cars.  There is no epidemic of death among them.  When you see something that is evil it should just be shown to be evil on its merits.  To vastly exagerate does not help our case.  Doing this cheapens the evil of the holocaust and pogroms which was extreme.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I don't like using terms such as pogrom and holocaust loosely

Why not? what's the difference between a Jew doing that and a Gentile doing that?

The obvious difference is that one involved mass murder and slavery.  I had a family friend who had an arm shot off in the camps.  I had a cousin who spent four years in the camps who lived the rest of his life with the numbers on his arms.  They were not even among the six million slaughtered by the Nazi beasts.  As bad as Amona was, it was not in that category.

Before there were camps there were deportations and brutal evictions.   

This could be exactly the type of deportation that preceded sending Jews to concentration camps.  Haven't you seen the films where Jews are rounded up and put into cattle cars during the liquidation of ghettos? 

The Israeli govt knows that putting Jews into concentration camps after expelling them would be a public relations nightmare, so instead, they put them into run-down trailer parks called "temporary housing" and they are hoping they will die there of medical maladies, depression, and other afflictions brought on by their ruined lives.  Aside from rampant unemployment, medical affliction and depression rates are through the roof with former gush katif expellees.   

To round up Jews for expulsion or murder is a nazi strategy.   This time Jews carried it out against other Jewish victims.

I am not going to defend the Israeli government in its evictions of Jews but this is nonsense.  The Jews of Gush Katif were not put onto cattle cars. 

I never said they were put into cattle cars.  Did you even read my post?  Or did you just react emotionally and irrationally first without finishing it or without comprehending it?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

There is no epidemic of death among them.  When you see something that is evil it should just be shown to be evil on its merits.  To vastly exagerate does not help our case.  Doing this cheapens the evil of the holocaust and pogroms which was extreme.

First I didn't claim "epidemic."  That's your own word because you apparently have a problem with twisting what I actually say.

Now read this: http://www.5tjt.com/international-news/7693-gush-katif-by-the-numbers

Is the article lying?

Here, I'll post the text in here for everyone, and I'll add emphasis in bold.  BTW, just because the mainstream media doesn't bother to report on these people doesn't mean they no longer exist after the govt destroyed their lives:

Gush Katif: By The Numbers
International News
By 5TJT Staff   
on Thursday, July 15, 2010
Permanent Communities

•  G-d willing, 18 new communities will be established during the coming year.

• Over 1,400 families (85%) from Gush Katif continue to live with their communities in temporary housing sites.

• Building of permanent housing has started in only 9 locations.

• Only 157 families (15%) have completed the building of their permanent homes.

• It is estimated that 180 families will not be able to build new homes without some degree of financial assistance.

Public Buildings

•  The government has not allocated the required funds for the full reconstruction of all public buildings such as synagogues, community centers, youth centers, and others.

• The construction of synagogues has begun in only three of the new communities.

Employment

Many families managed to find employment through the efforts of ‘JobKatif’ but approximately 18% of the Gush Katif people remain unemployed, almost twice the national unemployment rate. Another 15% are underemployed.

Small businesses

Only 100 out of the 180 small businesses that were located in Gush Katif were re-established after the expulsion, many only achieving partial productivity.

Farmers

Only 28% of the farmers were able to begin farming again, either as a result of inappropriate infrastructures or because of inadequate monetary compensation.

Social Challenges

Youth.  The uprooting from their homes and communities was a devastating experience for the youth of Gush Katif, who are still coping with a feeling of abandonment, a decrease in scholastic achievements, and an increase in truancy and high-school drop-outs.

Family structure. The uprooting severely impaired the resilience of the family unit and resulted in an increase in the number and severity of family crises and in the rate of divorces.

Medical issues. The uprooting brought an increase in the illness and mortality rates among the evacuees. The incidence of illnesses related to high blood pressure, heart disease, and malignant diseases has doubled.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Are you really trying to tell me that the govt's agenda did not include destroying the lives of these Jews?

[Ulli]

Hard to watch. Very cruel stuff.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Btw, did you watch the videos of Amona?    If not as a comparison to nazis, how would you describe those indiscriminate beatings, disproportionate use of force, and tramplings employed by the expulsion forces on these Jews?

[mord]

I don't blame the horses i blame the atheistanimal police most of these police are cowards

[Secularbeliever]

Btw, did you watch the videos of Amona?    If not as a comparison to nazis, how would you describe those indiscriminate beatings, disproportionate use of force, and tramplings employed by the expulsion forces on these Jews?

You have to know the difference between excesses that suck but do happen in western societies and Nazis.  I have never defended the Israelis for either Gush Katif or Amona.  However, to equate those episodes to Nazi Germany makes me wonder if you realize what happened in Nazi Germany.  Put another way, my relatives who actually experienced Nazi Germany would have gladly traded places with the residents of Gush Katif or Amona.  It just cheapens what the Nazis did to compare every wrongdoing by current governments to them.

[Secularbeliever]

Btw, did you watch the videos of Amona?    If not as a comparison to nazis, how would you describe those indiscriminate beatings, disproportionate use of force, and tramplings employed by the expulsion forces on these Jews?

In every society there are governmental abuses of authority.  This does not make Israel a Nazi government any more than we were a Nazi government in the 1960s when civil rights marchers were assaulted by police.  Again you need to think about what Nazis really was before you throw around such terms loosely.

[Lisa]

The soldiers who did this, and the people who authorized this brutality should all get two shots to the head!

[Aces High]

This is the most horendous video I have ever seen.  Those police were cracking  open Jewish heads with the clubs.  I was hoping that somebody would kill those police

[Secularbeliever]

This is the most horendous video I have ever seen.  Those police were cracking  open Jewish heads with the clubs.  I was hoping that somebody would kill those police

They were also trampling them with horses.  Those kinds of horses are specially trained not to stop if they come up to people.   I believe Effie Eitam was injured by being trampled by a horse.  Aryeh Eldad had his hand broken and was unable to practice medicine (I don't know if he can now).  One kid was put in a coma from being beaten.  Underage girls were touched in private parts.  Just a sick display of governmental abuse.

[muman613]

These are some of the horrific images of IDF Strom troopers cracking religious Jews heads in Amona:

[Aces High]

How can you fight a state sponsored pogrom?  Wiithout firearms, how do fight police officers, who are swinging down on you with clubs and making 1500 hundred pound horses trample you?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Btw, did you watch the videos of Amona?    If not as a comparison to nazis, how would you describe those indiscriminate beatings, disproportionate use of force, and tramplings employed by the expulsion forces on these Jews?

In every society there are governmental abuses of authority.  This does not make Israel a Nazi government any more than we were a Nazi government in the 1960s when civil rights marchers were assaulted by police.  Again you need to think about what Nazis really was before you throw around such terms loosely.

I don't understand.   Did the govt brutally expel civil rights marchers from their homes?   How is that a comparison?

To round up Jews for beatings and expulsion and/or murder is a nazi strategy and a nazi act.   The govt carried out a mass expulsion with beatings including some to near-death.   The govt therefore carried out nazi acts.   The burden of proof is now on you to tell me how this is "different" and shouldn't be termed thus.  Saying that not all govt abuses qualify for the description, while a true statement, is not directly addressing anything that went on here or addressing the specific example about which we speak.   So tell me how this particular act doesn't qualify in your opinion.

Nazi acts have a range of cruelty.   The worst on that scale is a mass murder with gas/starvation/mass graves etc.   But that does not mean that nothing else makes it onto the scale of nazi acts and behavior.   An expulsion of Jews from their homes and the destruction of their lives, with officers ready and instructed to beat them on the way out, qualifies on the scale of Nazi acts, even if it's not as bad as the most extreme, the nazi murder machine.   And this was done for the express purpose of handing over this land to the enemy arabs who had been targeting these Jewish populations for destruction for years with terror attacks.   It's an irrational expulsion of Jews for political purposes and to destroy their lives.... = Nazism.

[muman613]

I will stop short of calling Israeli actions against the Jews a nazi act... I believe that what was done was criminally wrong but it doesn't rise to as disgusting a level as the Nazis who constructed camps just for the purpose of extermination of Jews. I believe that the police in Amona did not intend on killing the Jews, just to forcefully remove them from their homes.

I hope that all officers involved will have catastrophe in their lives...

[Aces High]

I will stop short of calling Israeli actions against the Jews a nazi act... I believe that what was done was criminally wrong but it doesn't rise to as disgusting a level as the Nazis who constructed camps just for the purpose of extermination of Jews. I believe that the police in Amona did not intend on killing the Jews, just to forcefully remove them from their homes.

I hope that all officers involved will have catastrophe in their lives...

Muman, be serious, that was way beyond "forceful removing."