First meat made from dairy and grain

[Rubystars]

Not until you posted it, I had just seen the site. That's funny how they're going after each other like dinosaurs 

[mord]

judging that it came from Germany (Yuk) I doubt it's kosher.

They had an Advertisement in my newspaper that a famous German Cheese Company bought a farm and it's going or is now making Kosher cheese.They already have many orders from the U.S.,Israel, and some other European countries

[Rubystars]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

[mord]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

Heres some site for kosher Germany                     http://www.ordonline.de//index.php?option=com_kosherlist&task=default&view=default

[Rubystars]

I keep waiting for the good cheese to go back on manager's special in the imported cheese section. It's expensive otherwise.

I wonder if they're still making those Obama chicken nuggets over there. 

[mord]

I keep waiting for the good cheese to go back on manager's special in the imported cheese section. It's expensive otherwise.

I wonder if they're still making those Obama chicken nuggets over there. 

I forgot all about that

[Ulli]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

Heres some site for kosher Germany                     http://www.ordonline.de//index.php?option=com_kosherlist&task=default&view=default

I have never thought, that so many products in German markets are actually kosher. If I would be Jewish I think I would have no problem to live very cheap and well in my city.

[mord]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

Heres some site for kosher Germany                     http://www.ordonline.de//index.php?option=com_kosherlist&task=default&view=default

I have never thought, that so many products in German markets are actually kosher. If I would be Jewish I think I would have no problem to live very cheap and well in my city.

Yes and that's very orthodox

[Ulli]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

Heres some site for kosher Germany                     http://www.ordonline.de//index.php?option=com_kosherlist&task=default&view=default

I have never thought, that so many products in German markets are actually kosher. If I would be Jewish I think I would have no problem to live very cheap and well in my city.

Yes and that's very orthodox

Why don't they print a "kap" on the articles? I have never seen any sign on it.

It seems that you need the list to find the supervised products.

[mord]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

Heres some site for kosher Germany                     http://www.ordonline.de//index.php?option=com_kosherlist&task=default&view=default

I have never thought, that so many products in German markets are actually kosher. If I would be Jewish I think I would have no problem to live very cheap and well in my city.

Yes and that's very orthodox

Why don't they print a "kap" on the articles? I have never seen any sign on it.

It seems that you need the list to find the supervised products.

maybe they fear leftists and Greens would boycott their companies

[Ulli]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

Heres some site for kosher Germany                     http://www.ordonline.de//index.php?option=com_kosherlist&task=default&view=default

I have never thought, that so many products in German markets are actually kosher. If I would be Jewish I think I would have no problem to live very cheap and well in my city.

Yes and that's very orthodox

Why don't they print a "kap" on the articles? I have never seen any sign on it.

It seems that you need the list to find the supervised products.

maybe they fear leftists and Greens would boycott their companies

This could  be probably the reason.

Not forget the Nazis and the Muslims.

[mord]

I like Butterkase cheese. I wonder if there's a kosher version of that? It probably tastes good because it has a fat content of 50%. 

Heres some site for kosher Germany                     http://www.ordonline.de//index.php?option=com_kosherlist&task=default&view=default

I have never thought, that so many products in German markets are actually kosher. If I would be Jewish I think I would have no problem to live very cheap and well in my city.

Yes and that's very orthodox

Why don't they print a "kap" on the articles? I have never seen any sign on it.

It seems that you need the list to find the supervised products.

maybe they fear leftists and Greens would boycott their companies

This could  be probably the reason.

Not forget the Nazis and the Muslims.

Yes that's true also

[Dr. Dan]

Kwrbt

I was told in the past that the reason poultry was ruled as if it were meat was because it looked and tasted like meat. If this were true there would be a contradiction with the soy products.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

can somebody put more light on whats written here?
http://www.goveg.com/jsfkosher.asp

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kwrbt

I was told in the past that the reason poultry was ruled as if it were meat was because it looked and tasted like meat. If this were true there would be a contradiction with the soy products.

I never heard of that.   I think it's not true on 2 counts.  One, poultry was never "declared meat" and 2.  Chicken does not taste like meat.  

I do think it may have been added to the prohibition because it can look like meat and people could get confused and accidentally cook meat with dairy instead of chicken with dairy.  Even if that is true, we don't have grounds necessarily to add to the prohibition additional things aside from chicken that the chachamim added to it.  And labeled products may make a world of difference as well.   But let's look into this.

[muman613]

Kwrbt

I was told in the past that the reason poultry was ruled as if it were meat was because it looked and tasted like meat. If this were true there would be a contradiction with the soy products.

I never heard of that.   I think it's not true on 2 counts.  One, poultry was never "declared meat" and 2.  Chicken does not taste like meat.  

I do think it may have been added to the prohibition because it can look like meat and people could get confused and accidentally cook meat with dairy instead of chicken with dairy.  Even if that is true, we don't have grounds necessarily to add to the prohibition additional things aside from chicken that the chachamim added to it.  And labeled products may make a world of difference as well.   But let's look into this.

Did you see what I posted concering Maris Ayin?

There is an issue with Maris Ayin... Or there used to be...

http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-kosher-cons-handbk.htm

9) Maris Ayin -

The Torah states, “V’heeyesem Niki’im”58 - a Yid must be “clean” in the eyes of his neighbors, and must not perform even permissible activities that appear to be incorrect. This is known as Maris Ayin. Therefore, a person should not serve something that appears to be dairy with meat59 and vice versa. However, if a commonly used substitute for dairy is being eaten it is permissible to serve it with meat, even though it looks like a dairy item.60 There was a time when serving pareve ice cream or sticks of margarine at a fleishig banquet was questionable, because people thought the caterer was serving real ice cream or butter with meat.

Nowadays, these pareve items are commonly used and, therefore, are
permissible at a meat meal.  Similarly, soy based burgers and pareve non-meat hot dogs are readily available and may be eaten with dairy.  However, if someone produced a pareve product that looks like steak, one would not be allowed to eat it with dairy, because of maris ayin.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I did see, but it doesn't address Dr. Dan's precise question.  He is asking about the relation to the prohibition of eating chicken with dairy and what that is based on (ie, why that was added the prohibition on meat with dairy).

Also we don't make additional cases of "maris ayin" that are not specifically said in the Talmud.   So when that kosher org cites a pasuk rather than a Talmudic source it leads me to believe that that particular maris ayin is not necessarily applicable in any case, even if there are other reasons it would be permitted nowadays.  Does the Talmud relate this (something that looks like meat) as one of the specific examples of maris ayin?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Muman, do you know the talmudic source which speaks about chicken and dairy?  I'm not sure where it's located but that would help us understand the subject.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Chaim answered Dr. Dan's question on a recent "Ask JTF"  He said it was because in years past, the determination of what was actually beef by visible inspection was not always clear.   I didnt quite follow this, but it does make sense with respect to pork.  I have seen lean cuts of pork that would have fooled me as having been chicken.  I think perhaps in days past when the processing of food was less to non-existent, it couldn't always be ascertained beyond a reasonable doubt if something was for sure NOT beef, if it was meat.  But seriously Chaim answered this question recently from a user callled.....I forget... hold on..David Ben Zion

[Dr. Dan]

I did see that. Why wasn't Maris ayin applied to poultry if it wasn't meat?

Kwrbt

I was told in the past that the reason poultry was ruled as if it were meat was because it looked and tasted like meat. If this were true there would be a contradiction with the soy products.

I never heard of that.   I think it's not true on 2 counts.  One, poultry was never "declared meat" and 2.  Chicken does not taste like meat.  

I do think it may have been added to the prohibition because it can look like meat and people could get confused and accidentally cook meat with dairy instead of chicken with dairy.  Even if that is true, we don't have grounds necessarily to add to the prohibition additional things aside from chicken that the chachamim added to it.  And labeled products may make a world of difference as well.   But let's look into this.

Did you see what I posted concering Maris Ayin?

There is an issue with Maris Ayin... Or there used to be...

http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-kosher-cons-handbk.htm

9) Maris Ayin -

The Torah states, “V’heeyesem Niki’im”58 - a Yid must be “clean” in the eyes of his neighbors, and must not perform even permissible activities that appear to be incorrect. This is known as Maris Ayin. Therefore, a person should not serve something that appears to be dairy with meat59 and vice versa. However, if a commonly used substitute for dairy is being eaten it is permissible to serve it with meat, even though it looks like a dairy item.60 There was a time when serving pareve ice cream or sticks of margarine at a fleishig banquet was questionable, because people thought the caterer was serving real ice cream or butter with meat.

Nowadays, these pareve items are commonly used and, therefore, are
permissible at a meat meal.  Similarly, soy based burgers and pareve non-meat hot dogs are readily available and may be eaten with dairy.  However, if someone produced a pareve product that looks like steak, one would not be allowed to eat it with dairy, because of maris ayin.

[JTFenthusiast2]

I dont know Dr. Dan.  I can read the entire thread and try and figure it out

[Dr. Dan]

i think muman or KWRBT are going to post something lengthy about how poultry came to be part of the fence...

I wonder if there is a contradiction to imitation meats and dairies. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ok well it's Hullin Chapter 8 mishna 4 which speaks about it.  It's somewhat complicated and based on different understanding of the verses.   Also the subject is brought up in Shabbath 130a.   I have the translation of the text of the mishna in hullin but not the gemara that discusses it, so I'm going to try to look that up.   In the meantime, this article discusses very briefly what is referred to in Shabbath 130a.

http://text.rcarabbis.org/?p=149

I must say I find reason to not agree with his footnote #3, and am pretty sure my rabbi would disagree with his conclusion as well, but I'm interested in what he wrote there.   In any case it's more of a tangential discussion, I think the heart of the matter is expressed in hullin which this citation in Shabbath refers to.

[muman613]

Is it true that Sephardim don't have a prohibition on Chicken and Dairy? My Sephardic friend of Egyptian descent told us that his customs don't prohibit this combination...

[muman613]

Interesting, I just saw this explanation that eating Meat after eating Dairy does not require any waiting period. I was not aware of this, and I am interested in whether others have heard of this. This doesn't concern the question of Chicken and Dairy, but it is fascinating none the less....


http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?PageIndex=98&ClipID=73

The Many Laws of Eating Meat After Milk

Today’s Halacha:

As we know, a person who eats meat must wait a certain period – according to Sephardim, six hours – before he may then eat milk or dairy products.  What is the Halacha concerning the reverse case, of a person who ate dairy products and now wishes to eat meat?  Is there any mandatory waiting period that must pass before he may partake of meat?

The Shulchan Aruch rules that there is no minimum time period that one must wait before he may eat meat after dairy products.  It is permissible to partake of meat immediately after eating dairy foods, provided that one undertakes the following three measures:

1)  One must carefully inspect his hands to make sure that they contain no residue of the dairy food.  According to the Shulchan Aruch, it suffices to merely inspect one's hands, but later authorities recommend that one wash his hands before eating meat after partaking of dairy products.  It should be noted that this condition applies only if somebody ate the dairy food with his hands.  If he ate with a fork or a spoon, and he knows for certain that his hands did not come in contact with the dairy food, then he need not inspect or wash his hands before eating meat.

2)  One must eat some non-dairy food before partaking of meat.  This requirement is to ensure that if some of the dairy food had become stuck somewhere in the person's mouth, it will be dislodged by the food that he eats before partaking of meat.  The Shulchan Aruch writes that all foods are suitable for this purpose, with the exception of leafy vegetables, flour and dates, which are not capable of dislodging food stuck in the person's mouth.

3)  Finally, one must rinse out his mouth with water, wine, or some other beverage (other than milk, of course).

These conditions apply equally to red meat and poultry; the three conditions mentioned above must be followed before one may eat meat or poultry after eating a dairy food.

Summary: One who eats a dairy food may eat meat or chicken immediately thereafter, after he washes his hands, eats a food other than leafy vegetables, flour or dates, and rinses his mouth with any beverage (other than milk, of course).