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Gentiles and Mitzvahs

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adam613:
Could someone give me a BIBLICAL source for this idea that nonjews can't immitate Jewish ideas? They don't HAVE to keep all the mitzvahs but if they want to keep certain concepts of Kosher and a day of rest or the idea of not having intercourse during the week of menstration and the week after what is the problem is that. The talmud has to prove their source from the tanach. Otherwise you are Rabbi's into g-d's which I think is contrary to what Judaism is suppose to be. The Rabbi's today aren't perfect and I don't honestly believe they were in prior times times and that is why Rabbi's have to prove their point from the 5 books of moses. Otherwise it is a Rabbinic Laws which basically means at some point Rabbi's were worried about nonjews immitating Jews partly because of the times. That is just my two cents. I don't agree with kahaneloyalist. Even great Rabbi's can be wrong sometimes and this concept has no basis in the 5 books of Moses from what I can see. I am sorry if I am picking on kanaeloyalist he was just the last poster and I didn't read this word for word although I get a general idea that I don't agree with here.

Lubab:

--- Quote from: adam613 on May 21, 2007, 08:32:24 PM ---Could someone give me a BIBLICAL source for this idea that nonjews can't immitate Jewish ideas? They don't HAVE to keep all the mitzvahs but if they want to keep certain concepts of Kosher and a day of rest or the idea of not having intercourse during the week of menstration and the week after what is the problem is that. ...

--- End quote ---


There is no problem, Noachides may take on Jewish mitzvot (except for Shabbat and maybe tefillin) though it is not obligitory or neccesary. They should master the Noachide laws first. See my post above.

adam613:
Well even with Shabbos if you turn one light on you could spend the rest of the day keeping Shabbos anyway. That is what converts have done to not keep Shabbos according to the Rabbi's that felt it was problem. They turn one light on and they keep Shabbos. Although, again, the reasoning behind this according to some was simply because Jews were concerned about people who were not Jewish pretending to be Jewish in order to inform on Jews. And certain parts of Shabbos are irrelevent to nonjews anyway and yes they would want to change the prayer anyway. We say a prayer on wine referring to the Jewish people a gentile would say a different prayer relating to it. Certianlly if nonjews want to use the Shabbos as a day reflect and not deal with work matters they can. Just as g-d created the world in six days and rested on the seventh.

Lubab:

--- Quote from: adam613 on May 21, 2007, 10:37:33 PM ---Well even with Shabbos if you turn one light on you could spend the rest of the day keeping Shabbos anyway. That is what converts have done to not keep Shabbos according to the Rabbi's that felt it was problem. They turn one light on and they keep Shabbos. Although, again, the reasoning behind this according to some was simply because Jews were concerned about people who were not Jewish pretending to be Jewish in order to inform on Jews. And certain parts of Shabbos are irrelevent to nonjews anyway and yes they would want to change the prayer anyway. We say a prayer on wine referring to the Jewish people a gentile would say a different prayer relating to it. Certianlly if nonjews want to use the Shabbos as a day reflect and not deal with work matters they can. Just as g-d created the world in six days and rested on the seventh.

--- End quote ---

I have heard from major halachic authorities that it is a problem for non-Jews to do this "trick" where they turn on one light and keep the rest of the Shabbos. This is still a big problem because Noachides are not supposed to have a day where they stop working. If they want to recognize the fact that G-d created the world in 6 days they can do so in other ways such as by learning about the account of Creation, lighting 7 candels or whatever they want. They can create their own personal way of remembering this fact, but should not take a day off the way Jews do even if they will break the Shabbos in some small way. G-d needs the Noachides in the field settling the world, every day. 

adam613:
All I can say Lubab I guess I have a problem with that because study after study have shown that it isn't healthy to work seven days a week and be all work all the time. Why would g-d himself take a day to rest and forbid nonjews to have one day for more spiritual pursuits. They don't have to keep it the way Jews do but I can't honestly belive that it would be a sin for a nonjew to have a day to reflect on other matters other then work.


And as I said to begin with the whole concept is Rabbinic based on fears related to Christians at that time. There is no where in the Tanach that it says anything near to the sense that it is forbidden to keep the Shabbos nor do I see any Rabbi bring biblical proof to this fact unless I missed something here. To satisfy the Rabbi's you can turn one light on or drive or whatever but still to take one day easier then the rest of the week and not devote it to work but to other ideas at least in my opinion I can't see what the problem is.

Finally sad to say Lubab that some Rabbi's do seem to try to create rifts between different people (men and women, jew and nonjew) becuase of their own insecurities. I have had a lot of HORRIFIC EXPERIENCES WITH RABBI'S. I was dating a women who converted about 9 month ago. Her father was Jewish her mothers wasn't. Anyway the Rabbi's asked her WHY RABBI"S RULE THAT HAVING CHILDREN IS THE MAN'S MITZVAH. Which of course they wanted her to say because men don't care about having children and woman do want children. They want her to think men are terrible. Why do they focus on a Rabbinic thing like that our of all issues. Would they focus on a Rabbinic saying that was negative on women? Why focus on this out of all things. It doesn't really matter anyway. I didn't even know this until a few years ago. Why do the Rabbi's focus on something as minor as this. I think it is just to bash the men and teach women to hate men so they can run to the Rabbi's? They are frightened by other men. As I said in the end it's academic anyway because it requires a man and a woman to have a child anyway and if women don't want children men can't have children and if g-d asks the man why he didn't have a child and he tried and woman he dated didn't want children I would think the women are going to be held responsible for that for. If you prevent someone for fulfilling a command you are responsible for that. Of course if Rabbi's are  brainwashing the women they will also be held responsible. I also did mention the fact below on menstration why women are considered impure during the time of menstration and the reasoning seems very consistant with other biblical principles in interpreting the Torah.

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