To quote a Jewish liberal from another forum

[RationalThought110]

Someone said:

"he unfortunate reason is that being Jewish these days is being DEFINED by most Jewish rabbis as being liberal. It's simply an equation. All the liberal denominations, the Conservative, Reform,
Reconstructionist, and Humanist, are equating Judaism with liberalism (and activism in that cause). This is what the young are being taught; this is what all the sermons are about. This constant and loud message results in many Jews’ liberalism crowding out the traditional spiritual, historic, nationalistic, cultural, or social aspects of Judaism.

Somehow the starting and basic idea of Judaism that we should set a personal and national ethical example has been transformed into becoming an activist example and it is the liberal and leftist/radical elements that are the most active. Jews feel that they were chosen to head the demonstrations and to propagate the most radical views.

Gone is any thinking about Jewish law and Jewish holidays; gone is any study of the Jewish past. Young people are not steered into these kinds of interests. Rather they are encouraged to be in the forefront of every liberal cause. To be liberal is what DEFINES a Jew these days and that is a terrible loss. Judaism cannot survive this misconception of our identity. It really is not a worthwhile mission or reason to exist and sure enough we are disappearing fast in western societies.

Even Israel is in danger of suicide by liberalism as the majority there tries to imitate all the weaknesses of the West. You might be wondering whether the Orthodox are helping the situation. Actually they can take part of the blame for Jews' mistaken choices because the liberalism definition of Judaism is partially a reaction to the Orthodox definition that very few can live with. This group has made it just about impossible to be Jewish in any reasonable way, defining Judaism very narrowly. First, they added thousands of laws (presumptuously, in my opinion) and then call those who don't care to make Judaism a 24-hour chore not Jewish enough. In any case the liberalism of Jews can only be understood and changed when Judaism itself is set back on more reasonable foundations.

My website: backtobasicsjudaism.com   "


A response:


"God bless Liberals. Does not the Torah embrace social justice?"

What would you say to this? 


To them, is social justice giving special rights to CAIR?  Is social justice, bringing back communism? 
Is social justice eliminating the sovereignty and having open borders? 

[TheCoon]

I don't think the Lord was very liberal when he created Judaism. He didn't make commandments and then said, "well you can follow them if you want...". Religion's not a country club. It's unfortunate so many Jews and Gentiles look at it this way.

[Maccabi]

great post rational thought...I agree 100%

there are few Jewish causes around in the USA that I would be proud to be associated with.
most of them are obsessed with homosexual rights and negro babies in Africa.

on the other side of the scale I would not care to be like the orthodox clowns dressed in black.

I am very glad to have found JTF because even though I don't like some of the views here, there is something approximating a Jewish point of view I can deal with and would like to be associated with.

it really helps to put Judaism in a decent perspective.

[ftf]

God is right wing.

[RationalThought110]

great post rational thought...I agree 100%

there are few Jewish causes around in the USA that I would be proud to be associated with.
most of them are obsessed with homosexual rights and negro babies in Africa.

on the other side of the scale I would not care to be like the orthodox clowns dressed in black.

I am very glad to have found JTF because even though I don't like some of the views here, there is something approximating a Jewish point of view I can deal with and would like to be associated with.

it really helps to put Judaism in a decent perspective.

Why do you refer to them as clowns?  What views of JTF do you dislike?

[Maccabi]

Why do you refer to them as clowns?  What views of JTF do you dislike?

maybe that is a bad way to describe it. it's just extremely unrealistic for many guys to think to live life that way, always dressed in black and stuff. I get the feeling that there isn't anything really 'Jewish' about looking like that, that it is some strange abberance that caught on from in the Galut. I'm sure there are many righteous Jews who dress this way, but a lot of it just seems very strange.

I'm not into the racist stuff on JTF.  Sure a lot of it is true and needs to be said...but talking about shooting 'cookarachas' crossing the border isn't really my thing, or some of the more extreme rhetoric about black people.  I don't really give a shi!t about black people but at the same time I'm not going to publicly put my name out there to promote such extreme views.

I think it also makes it too dangerous for people to promote JTF. I mean if you stand outside passing out some flyers with some of JTF's great information about what's really going on (like JTF 7 Point Plan), but then they find the JTF.org site filled with stuff like sterilizing and deporting black people, it's flat out dangerous. 

I don't think very many people are as fearless as Chaim when it comes to publicly saying such things.
I don't think JTF will get more than a handful of public activists who are willing to go all out to promote the JTF website.

Sure some of the articles are great, but to raise money, you have to direct people to the website and they are going to be turned off by the more outlandish stuff.

I think the more important issue is Israel...fix that problem and the other problems will fix themselves...that's my opinion anyways.

It's a tough call though...a lot of the stuff Chaim says is true and pretty damn funny, but it's just not the type of person I am. I suspect a lot of other viewers feel the same way.

It's one thing to be an extremist and use strong rhetoric like Kahane did, and it is another to talk about executing all sorts of people.

[Dissenter]

I'm not into the racist stuff on JTF.  Sure a lot of it is true and needs to be said...but talking about shooting 'cookarachas' crossing the border isn't really my thing, or some of the more extreme rhetoric about black people.

It's one thing to be an extremist and use strong rhetoric like Kahane did, and it is another to talk about executing all sorts of people.

I agree with a lot of what you've said about JTF's rhetoric. In fact, I've said it myself on other posts.

In my humble opinion, JTF is both blessed and cursed with a powerful and charismatic spokesman who is also verbally trigger-happy and has a remarkable talent for shooting himself - and us - in the foot.

Even Chaim has said that excessive language - ours or his - doesn't get us anywhere. (He just said so on this week's "Ask JTF" broadcast.) He often makes an attempt to control himself during his broadcasts - and almost as often fails miserably.

His courageously excremental diatribes are the first thing which our enemies use as weapons against us, and which turn off serious potential supporters.

Try introducing JTF to your family, friends and acquaintances, and watch their reaction when he starts imitating "Congoleezza" speaking Ebonics - she doesn't, you know - and gibbering like a gorilla.

About shooting people on the border, though - think about it.

It sounds harsh, but don't forget the numerous illegal aliens who die at the hands of ruthless smugglers, or through ignorance of how dangerous crossing a desert can be.

If these aliens had been too frightened to cross in the first place, they wouldn't be dead now. And if our border was protected by military law, they would have been too frightened to cross.

The Mexican army has shoot-to-kill orders on Mexico's southern border, where very few illegal aliens are brave enough to try sneaking through.

[Maccabi]

Dissenter, you do have a point absolutely.

And America does have a right to defend its borders and it probably should.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to think about Mexicans.

On the one hand, a lot of them seem like decent, hard-working people.

I also happen to think Mexican food is pretty good.

On the other hand, they are flooding into the states.

I do think they should have to come legally and go through the process, but other than that, I don't really have any disdain for them as a group of people...I'm sort of indifferent (of course the criminals are 100% disgusting).

My point is, for me, personally, Israel is more of my issue.

Like I would be more comfortable promoting JTF if I could pick and choose on the issues, but as it is, it's sort of an all or nothing deal and a lot of the stuff included in this package deal is a little above my zeal level.

[RationalThought110]

Dissenter, you do have a point absolutely.

And America does have a right to defend its borders and it probably should.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to think about Mexicans.

On the one hand, a lot of them seem like decent, hard-working people.

I also happen to think Mexican food is pretty good.

On the other hand, they are flooding into the states.

I do think they should have to come legally and go through the process, but other than that, I don't really have any disdain for them as a group of people...I'm sort of indifferent (of course the criminals are 100% disgusting).

My point is, for me, personally, Israel is more of my issue.

Like I would be more comfortable promoting JTF if I could pick and choose on the issues, but as it is, it's sort of an all or nothing deal and a lot of the stuff included in this package deal is a little above my zeal level.

There are many people who immigrate legally.  Among legal immigrants, there are probably some Mexicans. 

People who disrespect the laws of this country, regardless of what country they come from, should not be given a free pass.  They shouldn't be allowed to enter illegally.  Those who have should be forced to leave.  No free health-care, no free education to their kids, no free welfare, etc. 

[RationalThought110]

I'm not into the racist stuff on JTF.  Sure a lot of it is true and needs to be said...but talking about shooting 'cookarachas' crossing the border isn't really my thing, or some of the more extreme rhetoric about black people.

It's one thing to be an extremist and use strong rhetoric like Kahane did, and it is another to talk about executing all sorts of people.

I agree with a lot of what you've said about JTF's rhetoric. In fact, I've said it myself on other posts.

In my humble opinion, JTF is both blessed and cursed with a powerful and charismatic spokesman who is also verbally trigger-happy and has a remarkable talent for shooting himself - and us - in the foot.

Even Chaim has said that excessive language - ours or his - doesn't get us anywhere. (He just said so on this week's "Ask JTF" broadcast.) He often makes an attempt to control himself during his broadcasts - and almost as often fails miserably.

His courageously excremental diatribes are the first thing which our enemies use as weapons against us, and which turn off serious potential supporters.

Try introducing JTF to your family, friends and acquaintances, and watch their reaction when he starts imitating "Congoleezza" speaking Ebonics - she doesn't, you know - and gibbering like a gorilla.

Who has talked about executing people?  There should be capital punishment for those who commit crimes worthy of that kind of penalty.


If Chaim has spoken out against rape, then I doubt he'd condone bad behavior.