Eminently bribable Shas

[wonga66]

As usual http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3946523,00.html "the unbelievably evil Shas party" (as Chaim calls them!) can be relied upon to betray the Right Wing camp if enough money is thrown at them!

Ovadia 'Kessef' Yosef long ago lost his Olam Haba, like some other learned chachomim throught history, despite their Torah knowledge and mitzva observance!



He was born "Abdullah Yousuf" in Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef
He supported and enabled Oslo, and has so consistently undermined the Right, that it makes you wonder if he is a bona fide Jew! He may have been an adopted Muslim foundling/changeling!

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Sickening.  Any "Torah based" political party could only be lead by a Kahanist and be authentically Torah based.  If its not Kahanism, its not Judaism.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ovadia 'Kessef' Yusuf long ago lost his Olam Haba,

LOL, that's a little over the top (and a bit presumptuous), don't ya think?

By the way, that's Rabbi Yosef to you, even if his party is evil.

[Lisa]

I noticed that Vienna Mike gave Rabbi Ovadia Yosef the yimach shemo curse. 

[wonga66]

Since Oslo and all its dreadful sequellae would never have happened if Ovadia Yosef had not supported it, I cannot bring myself to call him rabbi, no matter how many smachot he has, nor how many piskei din he has given.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

By the way, that's Rabbi Yosef to you, even if his party is evil.

Rabbi Yosef is the unquestioned leader of Shas though.

[muman613]

I do not suggest others join in this cursing of the Rabbi, it is certainly something which will bring judgment down on oneself...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I noticed that Vienna Mike gave Rabbi Ovadia Yosef the yimach shemo curse. 

He's pretty extreme.

I'm not comfortable going that far as to curse someone like this.  Best to just ignore him as a figure and uproot his political power if possible.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Best to just ignore him as a figure and uproot his political power if possible.

Ignore/uproot Vienna Mike or Rabbi Ovadia Yosef?

[Zelhar]

It is a very bad idea to actually curse Rabbi Yosef. I do have allot of contempt to Shas and I have very little appreciation to Rabbi Yosef as a petty politician.

[Rubystars]

I don't think it's a good idea to curse Torah scholars. Even though I don't share his religion I still respect his taking time to study the Bible so thoroughly because that is a very good and noble thing to do. I certainly don't agree with anything that would hurt Israel though.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Best to just ignore him as a figure and uproot his political power if possible.

Ignore/uproot Vienna Mike or Rabbi Ovadia Yosef?

?     
Not sure how there was confusion from what I said.   I'm speaking about Rav Yosef.   I gave a prescription that is an alternative to cursing.

I think there are many Sephardim out there who are Shas voters who would be much wiser if they started to ignore Rav Yosef's political statements - but they currently put lots of weight into all that junk... and of course vote for shas.


vm is an online persona advocating a Jewish agenda - what political power does he have and why would it be desirable to uproot it if he did?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Correct me if I am wrong KWRBT, but aren't there a lot of Mizrachim/Sfaradim that view Rabbi Ovadia Yosef similarly to how Catholics view the pope--i.e. an incontrovertible figure whose pronouncements on all issues are absolutely correct and the final word on the matter? If that is the case, then how can they be expected to choose to ignore his political views while still holding to his teachings in other areas?

If we want to break ROY/Shas' stranglehold on the minds and hearts of Mizrachis on the matter of land-for-feces, don't we need to first show them that he is not an absolutely perfect and unquestionable figure in general?

[wonga66]

Unfortunately most Sefardim, whether Orthodox or not, still give truck to Ovadia Yosef and Shas solely to put one in he eye of the "Ashkenantozim" against whom they still love to continue harboring such a grudge, irrespective of whether Shas supports the folly of "Land for Peace": it goes that deep!

Remember that Sefardic Jewry spent 1000 years living among Arabs, unavoidably becoming Arabised, with persistent Arabic traits and thought patterns to this day, which has both pros and cons. In the 1940s Sefardim were known as "Mistaravim" ie "Arabised Jews".

Sefardim, like Arabs, love a powerful, charismatic leader with a simplistic nationalist message; which is why they flocked to R.Kahane.

But in the absence of a Kahane today, they instead flock to Shas, poor sad souls.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Unfortunately most Sefardim, whether Orthodox or not, still give truck to Ovadia Yosef and Shas solely to put one in he eye of the "Ashkenantozim" against whom they still love to continue bearing such a grudge, irrespective of whether Shas supports "Land for Peace": it goes that deep!

Remember that Sefardim spent 1000 years living among Arabs, unavoidably becomingArabised, with persistent Arabic traits and thought patterns, which has both pros and cons. In the 1940s Sefardim were known as "Mistaravim" ie "Arabised Jews".

This sounds an awful lot like an insult against half of the world's Jews.

[wonga66]

Which half?

Ashkenazim lived 1500 years amongst the Western nations, and unavoidably took on the traits of their host nations, which also has its pros and cons.

That WAS part of the Plan!

Today there is a New Plan: the creation of a new Breed of Jew, where the terms 'Sefard' and 'Ashkenaz' are irrelevant.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Which half?

Ashkenazim lived 1500 years amongst the Western nations, and unavoidably took on the traits of their host nations, which also has its pros and cons.

That WAS part of the Plan!

Today there is a New Plan: the creation of a new Breed of Jew, where the terms 'Sefard' and 'Ashkenaz' are irrelevant.

Don't think that you can weasel your way out of what you just wrote. Please give our intelligence more credit than that.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Correct me if I am wrong KWRBT, but aren't there a lot of Mizrachim/Sfaradim that view Rabbi Ovadia Yosef similarly to how Catholics view the pope--i.e. an incontrovertible figure whose pronouncements on all issues are absolutely correct and the final word on the matter? If that is the case, then how can they be expected to choose to ignore his political views while still holding to his teachings in other areas? 

It's quite simple - Employing common sense and eschewing idol worship.  If people view him as infallible, they are surely quite stupid and probably sinning with idol worship.

If we want to break ROY/Shas' stranglehold on the minds and hearts of Mizrachis on the matter of land-for-feces, don't we need to first show them that he is not an absolutely perfect and unquestionable figure in general?

Hasn't he already shown that himself?

Your point is well taken and probably true, but that doesn't involve cursing him!  In fact, cursing him will only make it worse because one will discredit himself by doing so.  They will view such a person as just an anti-religious nutcase or anti-sephardi nutcase and not take the argument seriously before it's even made.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Unfortunately most Sefardim, whether Orthodox or not, still give truck to Ovadia Yosef and Shas solely to put one in he eye of the "Ashkenantozim" against whom they still love to continue harboring such a grudge, irrespective of whether Shas supports the folly of "Land for Peace": it goes that deep! 

Bullcrap.   I know plenty of Sephardim and their love of Rav Yosef has nothing to do with Ashkenazim.  This is once again silly hyperbole.

Remember that Sefardic Jewry spent 1000 years living among Arabs, unavoidably becoming Arabised, with persistent Arabic traits and thought patterns to this day, which has both pros and cons. In the 1940s Sefardim were known as "Mistaravim" ie "Arabised Jews".

Yes, known as such by racists.

Sefardim, like Arabs, love a powerful, charismatic leader with a simplistic nationalist message; which is why they flocked to R.Kahane.

But Sefardim, unlike Arabs... Hate arabs.   And that is also why they flocked to Rabbi Kahane.

Shas is a cheap imitation that is full of pretenders who stoke the fires every now and again (like this very example of Rav Yosef's statements) because in truth they cannot fit the bill with their policy and their supporters hate arabs as much as anyone does, but they cannot deliver.   So instead, they blow off steam now and again and deceive people into thinking their policy is based on these empty statements.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

If people view him as infallible, they are surely quite stupid and probably sinning with idol worship.

I agree with you but as someone who is (a) a Gentile, and (b) not familiar with the halachic logic that they use to justify this, I don't know how I could go about showing them that this is wrong. What is the Torah that they interpret to justify their perfect faith in ROY and how would a Jew refute it?

[Rubystars]

They would never listen to a Gentile DBF so there is no way that you can argue with them. It has to be another Jew that talks to them about such things.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

They would never listen to a Gentile DBF so there is no way that you can argue with them. It has to be another Jew that talks to them about such things.

Yeah, and even then they won't listen.

You beat me to the punch, Ruby.  I was thinking of replying with something similar.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It has to be another Jew that talks to them about such things.

It doesn't look like any Jews can shake the faith of the haredim who are so inflexibly tied to every word of their various rabbinical leaders either.

[Yaakov Mendel]

Sefardim, like Arabs, love a powerful, charismatic leader with a simplistic nationalist message; which is why they flocked to R.Kahane.

That is quite contemptuous, not only towards Sefardim, but also towards R.Kahane. Literally, you are telling us that R.Kahane's message is "simplistic". Why are you saying this ?

[wonga66]

"Simplistic" is not the same as "simple".

The Kach political agenda of the 80s was from straight out of the Tenach: "1.There is One G-d.  2.That G-d is the G-d of Israel. 3.The Jew has G-d given ownership over all of Eretz Yisrael. 4.Gentiles who don't tow the line will be expelled. 5.Immediate death penalty for terrorism. 6.The immediate dismantling of the Histadrut. 7.Income tax to be abolished. VAT will be 25%. 8.Compulsory ban on all transportation on the Sabbath"

Compared to the agendas of other parties, Sefardim loved it, as did any Ashkenaz worthy of his salt. Kach was on line to get 15 Knesset seats in 1988.