Author Topic: Rav Kook comments on evolution  (Read 3624 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Rav Kook comments on evolution
« on: September 21, 2010, 08:22:56 PM »
Rav Avraham Yitzhak HaKohen Kook (1865-1935) ZT"L, the founder of the Merkaz HaRav religious zionist flagship yeshiva in Israel, first chief rabbi of the Palestine Mandate and probably the greatest Posek and greatest thinker of his generation gave the following thoughts about evolution within his writings:

"The theory of evolution (hitpattehut) is increasingly conquering the world at this time, and, more so than all other philosophical theories, conforms to the kabbalistic secrets of the world. Evolution, which proceeds on a path of ascendancy, provides an optimistic foundation for the world. How is it possible to despair at a time when we see that everything evolves and ascends? When we penetrate the inner meaning of ascending evolution, we find in it the divine element shining with absolute brilliance. It is precisely the Ein Sof in actu which manages to bring to realization that which is Ein Sof in potentia." (Kook, Orot Hakodesh II:537)

"Even if it were clear to us that the order of creation was through the evolution of the species, there would still be no contradiction. We calculate time according to the literal sense of the biblical verses, which is far more relevant to us than is ancient history .... The Torah obviously obscures the account of creation and speaks in allusions and parables. Everyone knows that the account of creation is part of the secrets of the Torah. And if all these statements were taken literally, what secrets would there be? ... The essence [of the Genesis narrative] is the knowledge of God and the truly moral life." (Letters of Rav Kook, Letter 91.)

Taken from http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Science/Creationism_and_Evolution/Kabbalah/Rav_Kook.shtml

Offline Meerkat

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1426
  • Yemach Shmam to Egypt and Iran
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 10:02:33 PM »
 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 11:23:35 PM »
But there are still issues with the evolutionary theory. It makes no difference to me what they say about evolution, it is clear that Adam is a speaking and thinking man created specially by Hashem for a mission in this physical world. If science has an issue with that, too bad for them. They will miss the point if they are looking to try to prove this.

And in my opinion studying Kabbalah may be more enlightening for the soul than studying quantum physics.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 11:28:20 PM »
But there are still issues with the evolutionary theory. 

Apparently Rav Kook didn't think so, and that was the point of my thread.

Quote
It makes no difference to me what they say about evolution, it is clear that Adam is a speaking and thinking man created specially by Hashem for a mission in this physical world. If science has an issue with that, too bad for them. They will miss the point if they are looking to try to prove this.

Prove what?


Quote
And in my opinion studying Kabbalah may be more enlightening for the soul than studying quantum physics.

Rav Kook, in addition to all his other major talents and accomplishments, was a major expert in kabbalah (a widely renown kabbalist).   His writings are steeped in the kabbalah and from what I am told, difficult to master.

Offline Meerkat

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1426
  • Yemach Shmam to Egypt and Iran
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 11:29:50 PM »
they actually have found a common mutation on the Y chromosome on all men, suggesting we have a common origin. genesis and evolution do not contradict each other when interpreted correctly.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 12:05:23 PM »
they actually have found a common mutation on the Y chromosome on all men, suggesting we have a common origin. genesis and evolution do not contradict each other when interpreted correctly.

Yes, that common origin is Adam. The Torah and Jews have always believed that all men are descended from Adam. But the problem becomes when do the evolutionists consider that man was formed?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 12:08:36 PM »
Here is a discussion of why the first Parasha of Beresheit doesn't quit jibe with the possibility man was not unique in creation...


http://www.shemayisrael.com/p a r s h a/chrysler/archives/bereishis70.htm
Parashat Bereishis
Adam Names the Animals


(Based on Rabeinu Bachye)

Commenting on the Pasuk " … and whatever Adam named every living creature, that remained its name", R. Bachye cites the Medrash describing how Hakadosh-Baruch-Hu passed before Adam all the animals and all the beasts, and he (Adam) named each one. 'It is befitting to name this one 'Aryeh', this one 'Chamor' and that one 'Sus', he announced, and so with each and every animal. His ability to do that, says the Medrash, gives us an insight into the depth of Adam's profound wisdom. He was after all, made in the image of G-d and was the work of His Hands!

The author elaborates; he explains that in his great wisdom and power of perception, Adam understood the nature of every single animal and beast. And he now used that knowledge to name each of them according to its nature and characteristics. For example, he says, he recognized the immense strength of the lion and (perhaps on account of that strength) that it is the king of the beasts. Indeed, the prophet Hoshei'a even went so far as to compare G-d Himself to a lion, when he said (11:19) "They will go after Hashem like a roaring lion". So he (Adam) called it by the name 'Aryeh', since the letters of its name are all spiritual - the 'Alef', 'Yud' and 'Hey' are taken from Hashem's Name ('Eh'keh'), whilst the 'Reish' stands for 'Ru'ach' (spirit).

Likewise, he realized in his great wisdom, that the eagle is the king of the birds, and that it flies higher than all of them … and, citing R. Sa'adya Gaon, he explains that every ten years it soars higher than ever before, until, overcome by the heat of the sun, it casts itself into the sea, where it becomes rejuvenated and begins a nother cycle. And it continues to do this after every ten years, until it reaches the age of a hundred, at which stage it soars high into the sky once again, but this time it falls into the sea and dies. All this Adam knew, and so he called the eagle 'Nesher' - the 'Shin' representing 'eish' (fire), the 'Reish', 'ru'ach' (wind) and the 'Nun', nofeil (fall), depicting its ways, its life-span and its end in three short letters.

And so it was with the donkey, which he called 'Chamor', based on the word 'chomer' (physical), because the donkey constantly pursues its own desires, and because in its physicality, it is the most stupid of all creatures. In addition, he called it by that name because it is its way to carry loads of produce, and one of the most common measurements used by Chazal in describing the loads carried by a donkey is 'Chomer' (the equivalent of fifteen Sa'ah).

Rabeinu Bachye then cites 'Sus' (horse), so-called by that name because (based on the word 'sos' - spelt with two 'Sinim' [a 'Siyn' and a 'Samech' are interchangeable]), the horse rejoices in warfare, as Chazal have taught. And so Adam went on to name every single animal and bird.

(The Medrash explains that he called himself 'Adam', because he was created from earth [adamah]).

And when Hashem finally asked him what He (Hashem) was to be called, he replied with the four-letter Name of Hashem, because, he explained, He was Master of all the creatures (see the author's final words in 2:19, and the footnote - also bear in mind that we pronounce Hashem's Name 'Alef, Daled, Nun, Yud', which means Master).

*

Chazal explain that Adam was created as an adult of twenty. Considering that the above took place immediately after his creation - just before he went on to name Chavah, his knowledge of language (Lashon ha'Kodesh), state of intelligence and profound knowledge of the creation was phenomenal, to say the least.

*

One can perhaps reconcile the creation with evolution, by explaining that G-d commanded each creation to appear, after having condensed the long, long process of evolution in a split second. In other words, things that ought to have taken millions of years to reach a stage of completion, came into being already formed at G-d's command.

But if this is feasible to say this with regard to all the other creations, it is not feasible to say it about man, who as the Pasuk describes, was formed directly by G-d "in the image of G-d", into whom He breathed a Neshamah, as the Torah writes (2:7) "And G-d formed man … and He breathed into His nostrils a Soul of life".

Adam was created directly by the Hands of G-d, body and Soul, in the form of a super-intelligent human-being, precluding the possibility of any vestige of evolution from any part of his creation!

See also Parshah Pearls (1:27).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline MassuhDGoodName

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4542
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 12:58:49 PM »
re:

" ...The author elaborates; he explains that in his great wisdom and power of perception, Adam understood the nature of every single animal and beast. And he now used that knowledge to name each of them according to its nature and characteristics. ..."

...citing R. Sa'adya Gaon, he explains that every ten years it [the eagle] soars higher than ever before, until, overcome by the heat of the sun, it casts itself into the sea, where it becomes rejuvenated and begins a nother cycle. And it continues to do this after every ten years, until it reaches the age of a hundred, at which stage it soars high into the sky once again, but this time it falls into the sea and dies. All this Adam knew, and so he called the eagle 'Nesher' - the 'Shin' representing 'eish' (fire), the 'Reish', 'ru'ach' (wind) and the 'Nun', nofeil (fall), depicting its ways, its life-span and its end in three short letters."

Well, this all makes perfect sense to me.  The 'eagle' which Adam knew was part Icarus and part Phoenix.     :o      :'(

I really like Rabbi Kook because he's really "kooky"!    :::D

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 10:27:42 PM »


I really like Rabbi Kook because ...

What you quoted above was not from Rav Kook, but either way, don't belittle that great rav with this juvenile BS, please.

Offline edu

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1866
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 12:57:48 PM »
When you say evolution you have to further define what you mean. Because for example, there is the school of thought of many Darwinians that evolution is slow and gradual and determined by the survival of the fittest and then there is a school of thought that supports rapid evolution and massive sudden changes from one species to another.
In any case, on Scientific grounds, I think there is enough scientific evidence out to disprove the Darwinian school of thought.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Rav Kook comments on evolution
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2010, 08:42:20 PM »
When you say evolution you have to further define what you mean. Because for example, there is the school of thought of many Darwinians that evolution is slow and gradual and determined by the survival of the fittest and then there is a school of thought that supports rapid evolution and massive sudden changes from one species to another.
In any case, on Scientific grounds, I think there is enough scientific evidence out to disprove the Darwinian school of thought.

The second school you describe is what any scientist today refers to by "evolution."   The Darwinian model had to be adapted to the evidence which shows punctuated equilibrium rather than gradual longterm change.   The theory that better fits the facts is the punctuated equilibrium and everyone accepts that.