13 y/o gay kid kills self

[lines]

Young kids have a lot of hormones and sometimes they get confused and think they're gay even though they are really not gay and it's just that their hormones are so strong they are able to be attracted to anything.

[Daniel]

I am sorry if it sounds like I am cruel in my position. I am just so tired reading about young people so confused about sexual issues because of the evil designs of the homosexual agenda.

It did sound awfully cruel for you to say you didn't mourn him when he was just an innocent child who was being attacked and driven to suicide. If he was a Jewish kid being treated that way, not for being gay, but for being Jewish, or wearing his hair a certain way associated with Judaism, etc. I bet you'd be severely outraged. A child is a child Muman, and he and his family deserve to have some compassion for what happened to him and what his family is going through.

I really find it hard to believe that age 13 he could even begin to understand what sexual attraction was.

He learned from the school curriculum and from mass media that it was possible he might be gay. This was a very bad influence and if he hadn't had this pre-suggested to him, maybe he wouldn't have thought of it. All the kids learn this now.

As an adolescent just beginning to have sexual feelings and going through puberty, he was trying to discover who he was. Instead of being allowed to discover this in a safe environment, he was driven to suicide.

So now the schools and the media caused him to be gay??? The lengths we will go through to find something in the liberal stream to attribute to causing homosexuality, but we will never even remotely consider the possibility that this is something that someone is born with.

Once again we will say that science has yet to find a 'gay' gene which causes a person to be 'born' as a homosexual. This has also been shown that two twins who are born with the same genetic codes, one may become gay and the other may not become gay. How can this be something someone is born with?

In most cases, except when a person does not have the sexual organs, the decision to engage in sexual behavior comes only from a persons choice. A human being has control over his or her urges, unless that being was taught otherwise...

Simon Levay at the Salk Institute has already performed studies showing that the part of the hypothalamus, that deals with sexuality and desire, is significantly smaller or missing in homosexuals.

The choice to engage in sexual behavior might come from a person's choice, but the desires are NOT a choice. I never made a conscious decision to be straight. If I were to engage in homosexual behavior, that would not make me gay, because my desires would still naturally be heterosexual, which is something I have no control or choice over. The same goes for homosexuals. Whether or not they choose to follow their natural desires and engage in behaviors based on their desires or whether they choose to deny their desires and engage in heterosexual behavior, they're still gonna be gay. No way of escaping that no matter how hard someone tries or how moral someone might be. How else can you explain that there are people who were raised in strongly fundamentally religious families that absolutely condemn homosexuality where those people end up becoming gay, while at the same time, children who are raised by gay parents end up becoming straight? Ya ever hear the most basic expression, "If homosexuality were a choice, why in the world would anyone want to choose it?" All of the gay people that I know, all of them stated that this was definitely not something that they chose and this was something that they struggled with for many years before coming to terms with who they really were. It's not like they just woke up one day and decided to be gay just because they thought it was a neat idea or because they were influenced by the media or school curriculum or any other ridiculous claims like that.

The nature/nurture argument has been going on for a very long time and will continue to be debated forever. Regardless of what the real cause or combination of causes might be, the bottom line is that the real disability and disease lies in the "attitudes" towards homosexuality. That's something that is completely in someone's control and is a choice. That is something that is only influenced by outside forces like media, family influences, religion, insecurities of their own sexualities, etc. Also, the higher rate of suicide among homosexuals is NOT due to them being homosexual. It's a result of the homophobia and the bullying that they experience from society. That's what caused this poor kid to take his life. Society does not cause homosexuality, but it definitely causes homophobia which is what the real disease is. I know that nobody on this forum will agree with me on this, but frankly, I really don't care.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "Simon Levay at the Salk Institute has already performed studies showing that the part of the hypothalamus, that deals with sexuality and desire, is significantly smaller or missing in homosexuals. "

But that's only because one of the schwartzes who works in the lab was going around late at night cutting open the heads of all who volunteered for the experiment and eating their hypothalamuses!

When they finally caught up with him and demanded to know why he was eating all the patients' brains, he replied:

" Y U cair wut happenz 2 bunch o' Queers ? " ... "Now Skyuuuuze Me, White Man !!! "

[Daniel]

Re:  "Simon Levay at the Salk Institute has already performed studies showing that the part of the hypothalamus, that deals with sexuality and desire, is significantly smaller or missing in homosexuals. "

But that's only because one of the schwartzes who works in the lab was going around late at night cutting open the heads of all who volunteered for the experiment and eating their hypothalamuses!

When they finally caught up with him and demanded to know why he was eating all the patients' brains, he replied:

" Y U cair wut happenz 2 bunch o' Queers ? " ... "Now Skyuuuuze Me, White Man !!! "

[DMAN]

If schools would re-institute DODGEBALL it would end all of this hateful nonsense.

I'm very serious.

It would allow those who want to gang up on a "sissy" to throw balls at him, which in turn would allow the intended victim to not be hit by being well coordinated, and which in turn would allow the "sissY" to smack the living cr_p out of the bullies with a dodgeball thrown well once the sides switch.

Constructive release of pent up aggression and testosterone overloads.

Boxing would be good also.

Young adolescent males must be allowed to vent in normal ways or the end result is this kind of insanity showing up every day.

Just my opinion.

I never knew anybody to kill either a queer or kill themselves for being bullied in the days I was growing up.

Nor did anyone even consider carrying around a firearm with them.

in russia we had a shooting range in school where we trained kind of like in army, america should have that in schools also, it certainly beats LGBT or african american studies. there were no queers back then, everyone knew their role as a man.

of course it saddens me that a confused boy would kill himself over unclear emotions, but, unfortunately thats what leftism does to people.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Muman,

I often agree with your thinking, but this was really unkind.  This 13 year old felt like he had no options.  I have news for you, that is not the fault of this child, nor the gay community.   Kids do pick on others kids for being perceived as gay, sometimes so viciously it's hard to believe.  It's absolutely plausible that a 13 year old would have a glimpse into his future sexual orientation.  Who is helping these youth?  Not the gay community, not us, so who?  Before you condemn this young man, ask yourself what have you done to make the world a place where this young man could have found an outstretched helping hand?  Condemning and rebuking is the easy part (for all of us).

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Muman,

I often agree with your thinking, but this was really unkind.  This 13 year old felt like he had no options.  I have news for you, that is not the fault of this child, nor the gay community.   Kids do pick on others kids for being perceived as gay, sometimes so viciously it's hard to believe.  It's absolutely plausible that a 13 year old would have a glimpse into his future sexual orientation.  Who is helping these youth?  Not the gay community, not us, so who?  Before you condemn this young man, ask yourself what have you done to make the world a place where this young man could have found an outstretched helping hand?  Condemning and rebuking is the easy part (for all of us).

Absolutely.

[muman613]

Muman,

I often agree with your thinking, but this was really unkind.  This 13 year old felt like he had no options.  I have news for you, that is not the fault of this child, nor the gay community.   Kids do pick on others kids for being perceived as gay, sometimes so viciously it's hard to believe.  It's absolutely plausible that a 13 year old would have a glimpse into his future sexual orientation.  Who is helping these youth?  Not the gay community, not us, so who?  Before you condemn this young man, ask yourself what have you done to make the world a place where this young man could have found an outstretched helping hand?  Condemning and rebuking is the easy part (for all of us).

JTFEnthusiast2,

Im sorry you feel that way, but I do not share your opinion. I believe a lot of people have experienced bullying in their lifetime. I know that I have, and I survived, and I never had any suicidal feelings.

I doubt that at 13 a boy knows what his sexual leanings are. I don't want to reveal a lot about my younger years, but there was a time when people thought I was gay because I did not date until later in my years. When I was very young I was caught in a bathroom with a girl, and in some ways I always felt like I didn't want to take advantage of women so I would not be macho or anything. I also consider my parents divorce to have had an effect on me also...

But my point is this... Why did this kid feel like he was gay? Who told him this? It is the current school system which is feeding them the lies that that lifestyle is acceptable. The whole moral system has become corrupted because of the gay agenda in the school systems. Luckily I was not exposed to it, and it is probrobly the reason I was able to survive through all the experiences, as a high school nerd...

I do not judge others often, but when I do I do so because it makes me sad to think that there will be many more kids committing suicide in order to get attention. The system doesnt care about these kids, it wants to have immoral sexual relationships accepted just like heterosexual marriage.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If schools would re-institute DODGEBALL it would end all of this hateful nonsense.

They've stopped playing dodgeball?

What the hell?

I'm very serious.

So am I.  When did they banish dodgeball?

In any case, there was certainly dodgeball at my school and that didn't stop kids from picking on each other or calling each other names or bullying.   But fisticuffs usually work like a charm to stop that kind of stuff.   I can't help but feel that the parents botched up a little in this case, they didn't communicate enough with their kid, and they didn't teach him the proper values about what to do about a bully.   It may not have been their fault, but I learned from this story that someday when I'm a parent God willing, I'm going to have to be especially careful about this type of thing and be proactive.

I always enjoy stories from parents of kids that got bullied when the parents tell with much pride how their son/daughter "took care" of the bully the old fashioned way after advice from the parent, and then with a smile they say how the bully never troubled their kid again.   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The nature/nurture argument has been going on for a very long time and will continue to be debated forever. Regardless of what the real cause or combination of causes might be, the bottom line is that the real disability and disease lies in the "attitudes" towards homosexuality. That's something that is completely in someone's control and is a choice. That is something that is only influenced by outside forces like media, family influences, religion, insecurities of their own sexualities, etc. Also, the higher rate of suicide among homosexuals is NOT due to them being homosexual. It's a result of the homophobia and the bullying that they experience from society. That's what caused this poor kid to take his life. Society does not cause homosexuality, but it definitely causes homophobia which is what the real disease is. I know that nobody on this forum will agree with me on this, but frankly, I really don't care.

Is there a gene for homophobia too?   




Further, I really don't understand what you're saying:  "Also, the higher rate of suicide among homosexuals is NOT due to them being homosexual."

Isn't the bullying and homophobia caused by them being homosexual?

I take it you mean by that statement that they are not to blame for their suicides but society is instead?   Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean.   I also haven't seen a study proving that bullying is responsible for increased suicide rates for homosexuals.  Do you know of one?    It would seem to me that many people are upset about being gay (you described your own friends saying the attraction was 'something they would never choose'), wracked with guilt, difficulty adjusting to society, can't have a wife and kids and make a "normal" family, etc and these difficult emotional states can likely lead to increased depression and suicide, but hey I'm no expert.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

JTFEnthusiast2,

Im sorry you feel that way, but I do not share your opinion. I believe a lot of people have experienced bullying in their lifetime. I know that I have, and I survived, and I never had any suicidal feelings.

I doubt that at 13 a boy knows what his sexual leanings are. I don't want to reveal a lot about my younger years, but there was a time when people thought I was gay because I did not date until later in my years. When I was very young I was caught in a bathroom with a girl, and in some ways I always felt like I didn't want to take advantage of women so I would not be macho or anything. I also consider my parents divorce to have had an effect on me also...

But my point is this... Why did this kid feel like he was gay? Who told him this? It is the current school system which is feeding them the lies that that lifestyle is acceptable. The whole moral system has become corrupted because of the gay agenda in the school systems. Luckily I was not exposed to it, and it is probrobly the reason I was able to survive through all the experiences, as a high school nerd...

I do not judge others often, but when I do I do so because it makes me sad to think that there will be many more kids committing suicide in order to get attention. The system doesnt care about these kids, it wants to have immoral sexual relationships accepted just like heterosexual marriage.

Nice try.

So that we don't get into an endless tinkling match of he said/she said, I'll avoid all ambiguity by quoting your OP:

I do not mourn the death of Asher Brown.. I will use it as an example of the perverse nature of the Gay agenda, using young children in their attempt to make abomination acceptable...

That has to be one of the most horrid and vile things written at JTF (or anywhere on the internet) all year--and considering that we've had some pretty vicious Nazi trolling, I think that's saying quite a lot. But like Rubystars said, I doubt the boy's parents will mourn your death, either, so I guess we're even. Leaving that aside, though, you seem to have a rather interesting matrix/protocol for getting worked up about the gay agenda:

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,49776.msg472361.html#msg472361

It is a bit humorous to hear that from you, the one who constantly blathers on and on about the infidelities and immorality of all kinds of lame artists. Like Eminem who I had barely heard of in recent years until you started on a binge, spreading gossip and slander every day. You constantly bleat out the hatred you feel for artists like lady gaga

(ironically enough, this post was in a thread about your hatred for a celebrity you don't like, Roger Waters)

spreading antisemitic libels are far more injurious to the world than sexual infidelity

(as if the sexually immoral artists aren't anti-Semites)
 
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,48903.msg464799.html#msg464799

Torah has no explicit command against Lesbian relations.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,46145.msg441427.html#msg441427

I am wont to say that those who violate Shabbat are just as culpable as those who engage in Homosexual sex.

So, make up your mind: is the sodomite movement a horrible thing that has to be fought at all costs, or something that isn't that big of a deal?

Pretending that your answer is the former, I don't understand how artists like Katy Perry (whose claim to fame was a pop song in which she brags about kissing a woman, in great detail), Lady Gaga (who has very casually talked about sleeping with both men and women for sexual release), Eminem, who you accused me of lying about (who explicitly admitted to having unprotected sex with another rapper, and vocally supports faggot "marriage"), or Angelina Jolie (the proud bisexual and proud Hamas supporter) need protection from "lashon hara". Pretending the answer is the latter, I don't understand how a friendless, universally despised, and miserable thirteen-year-old kid is so worthy of your detestation.

I'm pretty sure that you are going to give me a usual stock response, but whatever. If I won't tolerate arrogant and nasty posts from The Coon, Ron, etc., I certainly won't from anybody else.

[muman613]

DBF,

I care very little about what you think... I am not a DBF fan, lets say...

I do not persecute anyone because of their sexual orientation. I do not go around saying 'this one is gay' and 'that one is gay', as you seem to have a jolly time doing so often. I do not take any pleasure in discussing this topic concerning what someone does as long as they do it in the privacy of their own homes, and not in front of others for whom they will influence.

Why it would seem that I should expect the parent of this kid to mourn for my death is odd. I don't, and I don't expect anyone except my family and friends to do that. I do not expect to be made a martyr out of, as my brother was made a martyr.

Is it strength or weakness which is expressed in this story? It is always easy to blame the bully in these cases, and while it is true that aspect of the story will be given all the attention, it is also important to recognize that the liberalization of sexual expression which is being taught to young children today is going to have serious side-effects.

I do not care what you think DBF, and this is not why I am explaining my post. I am explaining this for my friends and those who at least try to understand where I stand on these issues. It is wrong to persecute people for their failings. What is proper is to elevate that which is good in a person, and to compliment them, and give them constructive criticism... It is proper to rebuke a person to the level which will cause him to change his or her ways.

I never would wish death on a child for this kind of thing. If the readers think that they are wrong. Normally I would not even consider that to be a possibility, that a child that young would identify with that kind of lifestyle.

In my many years and the many experiences I have in life I have encountered people who struggle with these kinds of issues. I do not judge them harshly and I do not withhold charity to them. It is not my job to punish others for these kinds of things, it is only Hashems will that I express my displeasure.

Why you bring up the fact that I told the true interpretation of the Torah concerning lesbian relationships is odd. I will repeat it again. The Torah does not expressly forbid female homosexual relationships as it does male homosexual relationships, which it calls a man sleeping with a man as he sleeps with a woman an ABOMINATION. The female relationship is not referenced in that commandment. The sages learn that the female homosexual relationship is forbidden through the command not to imitate the ways of the Mitzrayim {with whom lesbian relationships were common}. Do you understand what I am saying now, DBF? Or do you want me to bring more examples of this from the sages?

The reasons the Torah calls the male homosexual relationship an Abomination has been discussed on the forum before. What I often point out is that what is more important is for a man to observe the commandments himself before he rebukes others for not observing them. Judaism does not intend for people to use the commandments to create conflicts, because we are told that all the Torahs ways are peace. My constant admonition is that all Jews should work on observing Shabbat more strictly because the Torah places a very heavy stress on Shabbat observance, to the point that the penalty for desecrating the Shabbat was death, the very same penalty for having a male homosexual relationship.

So DBF, take a deep breath and relax...

[muman613]

BTW,

I agree it was wrong to say so blatently that I don't mourn for him.

But my anger toward the whole situation remains...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

But my anger toward the whole situation remains...

I'm angry too. I hope that all of the POS kids who made this poor guy's life a living hell, and the school administrators that thought it was so much fun to sit and watch, all get terminal cancer.

I am not a DBF fan, lets say...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

He wouldn't feel that way if it was a Jewish kid.

Your futile irrational paranoia passes the border of anti-Semitism.

There is a complete double standard. I bet you if some kid was being persecuted for being Jewish he'd have a completely different attitude.

PRAISE THE DIFFERENCE!

When Jews are persecuted we are burnt, hammered, slew, hanged, raped, robbed, humiliated, etc.

When this kid was "persecuted", he merely had his homo face unmasked.

How DARE you compare between persecution of Jews and "persecution" (a little prank this kid took too seriously!)? You just show your real value for Jewish lives.

I'd rather have all little homos dead than have ONE Jew have his nail scratched. Yes, I know it sounds racist
for StormFronters like you, but that's how Jews do - care for Jews above all.

[Dr. Dan]

Ok a lot of you are missing a few important points.

1.  Puberty for boys can start as early as 10 like it did to me. At 5th grade or even sooner they have sex ed class that where in my day in the 80's they separated the boys from girls and talked about biology. No sex pictures.

2.  Should it matter if gays are born that way or made an easy choice to do evil homosexual acts. Does that change your opinion on whether homosexuality is evil behavior?  We need to be compassionate and encourage them to stop doing the behavior. We should curse those who encourage it or who are activists for it.

3.  This suicide is a tragedy. Bullying is bad mmmmkay. What is also terrible is now the gay activists are shamelessly going to use this to help their cause and too many Americans have become so brainwashed with political correctness that they still cant say what I just said.

4.  A man attracted to males might not be able to help it. That part isn't the sin. Like straight men are attracted to the idea of their own fantasies. It's the behavior which is the problem.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Your futile irrational paranoia passes the border of anti-Semitism.

PRAISE THE DIFFERENCE!

When Jews are persecuted we are burnt, hammered, slew, hanged, raped, robbed, humiliated, etc.

When this kid was "persecuted", he merely had his homo face unmasked.

How DARE you compare between persecution of Jews and "persecution" (a little prank this kid took too seriously!)? You just show your real value for Jewish lives.

I'd rather have all little homos dead than have ONE Jew have his nail scratched. Yes, I know it sounds racist
for StormFronters like you, but that's how Jews do - care for Jews above all.

You need to take your meds.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Ok a lot of you are missing a few important points.

1.  Puberty for boys can start as early as 10 like it did to me. At 5th grade or even sooner they have sex ed class that where in my day in the 80's they separated the boys from girls and talked about biology. No sex pictures.

2.  Should it matter if gays are born that way or made an easy choice to do evil homosexual acts. Does that change your opinion on whether homosexuality is evil behavior?  We need to be compassionate and encourage them to stop doing the behavior. We should curse those who encourage it or who are activists for it.

3.  This suicide is a tragedy. Bullying is bad mmmmkay. What is also terrible is now the gay activists are shamelessly going to use this to help their cause and too many Americans have become so brainwashed with political correctness that they still cant say what I just said.

4.  A man attracted to males might not be able to help it. That part isn't the sin. Like straight men are attracted to the idea of their own fantasies. It's the behavior which is the problem.

Good post.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

[
You need to take your meds.

Only when you get over Eminem, you lifeless mamon.

[nessuno]

They still play dodge ball in our school district. 
I never understood why.
You would think that the 'overprotective' parent would have put an end to it by now. 

[Daniel]

[/quote]

in russia we had a shooting range in school where we trained kind of like in army, america should have that in schools also, it certainly beats LGBT or african american studies. there were no queers back then, everyone knew their role as a man.

[/quote]

No queers back then??? Nonsense! There have always been queers since the beginning of time!

[/quote]

of course it saddens me that a confused boy would kill himself over unclear emotions, but, unfortunately thats what leftism does to people.
[/quote]

Unclear emotions and leftism didn't kill this boy. Homophobia, bigotry, intolerance, and bullying killed this boy! It's this type of behavior and attitude that is neither left nor right, liberal or conservative. It's just downright ignorance and idealogical stupidity. But you'll never see that. You'll just always blame "leftism" for all the world's ills.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

He deserved the humiliation as a faggot. His death is his own decision and nobody else's.

[TheCoon]

He deserved the humiliation as a faggot. His death is his own decision and nobody else's.

Contrast Ron's negro-like savagery towards others he disagrees with to Dr. Dan's compassionate and rational attitude. Ron is young and ignorant though so hopefully he will mature and feel shame for his youthful stupidity.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Contrast Ron's negro-like savagery towards others he disagrees with to Dr. Dan's compassionate and rational attitude.

If you're too stupid to handle with my arguments yourself instead of using Dr. Dan just don't waste my time.

Ron is young and ignorant though so hopefully he will mature and feel shame for his youthful stupidity.

Says the Negro (that's how you call yourself) Mr. Jooz are responsible for Obama.

When the third worlders take over your miserable America-dependent slave country Canada you will understand the mistake you have done for hating the Chosen people.

[TheCoon]

That takes some nerve for an Israeli to say another country is a slave to America the way your president Netanyahu grovels to Obama and has to ask him permission to build houses on his own territory.

As far as I'm concerned, loving Jews doesn't mean loving an animal like you. What makes you think any gentile should love YOU? Because you live in Israel and hate arabs? Your words prove you're an evil and depraved person. Just as the self-haters cause problems for Jews, fascists like yourself cause problems for the Jewish people. You think God's commandment for gentiles involves grovelling at the feet of Jews and worshipping them like gods who are infalliable. In fact, you think gentiles are all evil and Jews are the only people who should be allowed to live! You're denying God's will for the Jews to be a light unto the nations, so don't tell me I should lick your feet because you were born Jewish. You, Ron Ben Michael, are a pox on the Chosen People, who I do love and hope return to Israel and fulfill biblical prophecy.