Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: MassuhDGoodName on October 07, 2010, 02:16:41 AM ---Re: "To
MassuhDGoodName
G-d is outside of time; you can not compare his knowledge of actions and things that he has to our knowledge of things, since we are bound by time and our wisdom does not work on the same basis as G-d's wisdom. "
So you agree with me! :)
--- End quote ---
?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Getting back to the original question:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on October 06, 2010, 02:52:34 PM ---The Jewish belief is that angels are created specifically to do G-d's bidding, they have no free will. So saying that G-d found error in the angels...
--- End quote ---
Perhaps these reflect conflicting views within our tradition. When you say it's "The Jewish Belief" that angels are created to do G-d's will having no free will - are you sure it's not just one hashkafic viewpoint among multiple acceptable views? Maybe it's the one that won out or is more common and so you are mistaking it for being The only acceptable Jewish view. Perhaps this passage in Iyov represents a scriptural basis for the contrary viewpoint - namely, that angels do have a degree of free will and do make mistakes. And the midrash I cited is the stream in chazal which also accepts and reflects this view. Maybe there are contrary sources in scripture which seem to contradict this and form the foundation of the view that angels have no free will and just do exactly what G-d requires of them.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on October 06, 2010, 06:45:15 PM --- Second of all, even if Job is just a fable to teach people patience (which apparently most rabbis think it is actual history), why would it be in the Tanach if it says something theologically inaccurate?
--- End quote ---
I take exception to your language. What do you mean "JUST" a fable? Chazal talk in parables and metaphor all the time, and so did the prophets at times. These 'fables' contain profound and remarkable wisdom. The fact that it's a parable only devalues it in the eyes of those for whom chazal knew they could not say their statements straight and would have to rap things in a simplistic outer shell because most minds can't grasp what they are saying or devote seriousness to actually consider its meaning and would rather not be inconvenienced with deep thought but comforted by simple entertaining tales.
I also don't think it's just "patience" that Iyov teaches.
Now, who says that it says something "theologically inaccurate" and how exactly was that determined?
--- Quote ---There must be some angels or beings who have chosen to do wrong, and that is why G-d found fault in them. No one has explained the verse I posted.
--- End quote ---
Could very well be.
I think people here, with our limited knowledge, have explained several aspects of the verse.
MassuhDGoodName:
Re: "If something/someone is truly omniscient why would it/He make a mistake? He would know what will result. Unless by 'all-knowing' you mean only "partially-knowing?" "
Haven't you ever met anyone who made mistakes on purpose?
Some folks make mitakes on purpose just to see if anyone is paying attention!
And sometimes people will make mistake after mistake and not even notice it or realize it!
So if G-d is the only Perfect Being, it stands to reason that even His mistakes are Perfect.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: MassuhDGoodName on October 07, 2010, 02:43:44 AM ---Re: "If something/someone is truly omniscient why would it/He make a mistake? He would know what will result. Unless by 'all-knowing' you mean only "partially-knowing?" "
Haven't you ever met anyone who made mistakes on purpose?
Some folks make mitakes on purpose just to see if anyone is paying attention!
And sometimes people will make mistake after mistake and not even notice it or realize it!
So if G-d is the only Perfect Being, it stands to reason that even His mistakes are Perfect.
--- End quote ---
What do you mean by a perfect mistake? It seems like you are discarding the meaning of terms. Perfect means without error. A perfect mistake is an oxymoron because a mistake is an error. What am I missing here?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version