Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
edu:
Although angels don't have evil impulses that drive them to sin; they can still make mistakes by choosing the wrong decision on what is the will of G-d.
So for example when the angels went to Sdom {Sodom} they mistakenly conveyed to Lot that certain powers of G-d, were their power.
They were therefore punished by having power withheld from them until they reached the city.
See Breishit/Genesis 19:22
In the Talmud tractate Yoma, the sages taught that the angel Gavriel, was punished for not carrying out the punishment of the Jewish people in the way directed by G-d and also for unnecessarily reporting bad.
His power to act for the benefit of Israel was therefore lowered until in the merit of Daniel, he was restored to his proper level, when struggling against the angel that represented the interests of Persia {Paras}. see Daniel 10 verses 12 and 13
Harzel:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on October 06, 2010, 02:33:08 PM ---What about passages like the following from Job? Keep in mind that Job had to deal with Satan.
Job 18 If G-d places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error,
19 how much more those who live in houses of clay,
whose foundations are in the dust,
who are crushed more readily than a moth!
--- End quote ---
Job is a book about doubts and reassurance of faith. I think the whole thing about Satan arguing with God about Job is metaphoric.
Harzel:
I think it is logical that any sentient being other than God makes mistakes.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Dan Ben Noah on October 06, 2010, 02:52:34 PM ---The Jewish belief is that angels are created specifically to do G-d's bidding, they have no free will. So saying that G-d found error in the angels would mean that they are imperfect, which either means they chose to do wrong or that G-d made them incorrectly.
And there is no passage in the Tanach about the angels being rebuked for rejoicing at drowning Egyptians to my knowledge.
--- End quote ---
Though it is not in Tanach, the story about the Angels being rebuked for wanting to sing is in Talmud...
http://ohr.edu/holidays/pesach/ask_the_rabbi/3474
--- Quote ---From: Barry in Seattle
Dear Rabbi,
Why do we read the complete hallel for only the first day of Pesach but not the rest of the holiday? I think this is different than on Chanukah when we read the complete hallel for the entire holiday. Weren’t the miracles that occurred regarding Pesach greater than Chanukah?
Dear Barry,
After departing Egypt on what became the first day of Passover, the Jews reached the Sea of Reeds (Red Sea) on the seventh day. As you know, they were pursued by the Egyptians in chariots of war led by Pharaoh who intended to annihilate them. Trapped with the sea before them and the Egyptian army rapidly approaching from behind, the Jews turned their hearts upward. In that merit, G-d miraculously split the sea and the Jews passed through.
As the last Jews exited the sea, the last of the Egyptians had finished entering in after them. The raging waters held at bay were let loose with a fury and drowned the entire Egyptian army. Having witnessed this awesome miracle and surreal salvation, the Jews broke out in song and praise of G-d, “Then Moses and the children of Israel sang this song to the L-rd, and they spoke, saying, I will sing to the L-rd, for very exalted is He; a horse and its rider He cast into the sea” (Ex. 15:1).
According to the Midrash the angels observed all this from on high and also wanted to chime in and praise. G-d reprimanded them saying, “My creations are drowning in the sea and you wish to sing?!” From here we learn that that the joy of the salvation must be tempered by sorrow over the destruction of the enemy, as in the verse “Do not rejoice in the downfall of your enemy” (Prov. 24:17).
Therefore, the hallel of this day, the seventh day of Pesach, is not completed since our joy over the miraculous salvation at the sea is marred by the loss of life of the Egyptians. And since the hallel is not completed on this last day, it’s abridged for the intermediate days as well, so that they should not be viewed as more important than the concluding festival day.
You might ask, If G-d stopped the angels from singing, why did Moses and the Jews sing — and why didn’t G-d stop them as he stopped the angels? And if He didn’t stop them, then why shouldn’t we sing as well? Furthermore, according to this, we shouldn’t complete the hallel on the first day either, as there was also great loss of life in the plague of the firstborns. Why do we complete it then? Well, I’m glad you asked. All can be answered with the same idea.
G-d did not allow the angels to sing because they were only spectators and did not actually experience the miracle themselves. They were therefore expected to consider both the salvation and the destruction simultaneously and reduce their joy. However, the Jews of that generation had actually lived through the most harrowing of experiences and literally saw G-d’s salvation with their own eyes. Their joy was completely focused on the miracles, then, and not on the destruction. Accordingly, this reason also applies to future generations of Jews who did not actually experience the miraculous salvation but were more like distant spectators. Therefore we don’t complete the hallel on this last day, or on the intermediate days either, as explained above.
However, the reason we do complete the hallel on the first day despite the destruction of G-d’s creatures in the plague of the firstborns is based on the injunction incumbent on every Jew to view himself as if he had actually partaken in the exodus from Egypt. Since our appreciation and joy is to be so great that we are to feel as if we had actually experienced the exodus ourselves, for this reason we recite the complete hallel on the first night and day of Pesach.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---In that hour, the ministering angels wished to sing songs of praise before G-d, but He rebuked them, saying: "My handiwork is drowning in the sea, and you wish to sing before me?!"
(Talmud, Sanhedrin 39b)
--- End quote ---
muman613:
Actually in the story of Job, HaSoton was doing the job he was created for. Soton is the angel who acts as the prosecutor of man, he also acts as the evil inclination in man, and he also acts as the angel of death...
--- Quote ---http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html
So the angels are referred to as perpetually standing, but we are movers. Our purpose is to keep on moving, to keep on improving ourselves, and to keep on rising.
And how do we do it? By constant battle with the Evil Inclination.
So now we have to revise our understanding of Satan. Satan is not a fallen angel. Satan is merely an angel with a dirty job. Satan does not have a rival kingdom. Satan is not in competition with G-d, and Satan does not want followers or worshipers. He's not even happy when people obey him and sin.
Satan is the angel who tempts us, and the angel who prosecutes us in Heaven. He is also the Angel of Death. The angel who tries to make us sin is the same angel who accuses us in the Heavenly Court, and the same angel who carries out the death sentence.
--- End quote ---
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version