Author Topic: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?  (Read 1807 times)

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Offline White Israelite

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Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« on: October 30, 2010, 10:41:36 PM »
Does anyone know more about this? One would assume the Israelites were forbidden from creating impressions of themselves?

Dura-Europos synagogue

The Dura-Europos Synagogue (or "Dura Europas", "Dura Europos" etc) is an ancient synagogue uncovered at Dura-Europos, Syria, in 1932. The last phase of construction was dated by an Aramaic inscription to 244 C.E., making it one of the oldest synagogues in the world. It is unique among the many ancient synagogues that have emerged from archaeological digs as it was preserved virtually intact, and it has extensive figurative wall-paintings. These frescoes are now displayed in the National Museum of Damascus.

Before the final Persian assault on the town, parts of the synagogue which abutted the main city wall were apparently requisitioned and filled with sand as a defensive measure. This helped its survival in such good condition.

Because of the paintings adorning the walls, the synagogue was at first mistaken for a Greek temple. The synagogue contains a forecourt and house of assembly with painted walls depicting people and animals, and a Torah shrine in the western wall facing Jerusalem. The paintings cover the walls of the main "Assembly Room", using three levels of pictures over a dado frieze of symbols in most places, reaching a height of about 7 metres. The scenes depicted are drawn from the Hebrew Bible and include many narrative scenes, and some single figure "portraits" - 58 scenes in total, probably representing about 60% of the original number. They include the Sacrifice of Isaac and other Genesis stories, Moses receiving the Tablets of the Law, Moses leading the Hebrews out of Egypt, the visions of Ezekiel, and many others. The Hand of G-d motif is used to represent divine intervention in a scene. Scholars cannot agree on the subjects of some scenes, because of damage, or the lack of comparative examples.

Stylistically they are provincial versions of contemporary Graeco-Roman style and technique; several different artists seem to have worked on them. Technically they are not fresco (paint fused into wet plaster) but tempera over plaster. Earlier parts of the building have decorative painting with no figures. Some of the paintings have figures whose eyes have been scratched out, especially those in Persian costume. (See the figure on the white horse in the picture at right.)

Scholars think the paintings were used as an instructional display to educate and teach the history and laws of the religion. Some think that this synagogue was painted in order to compete with the many other religions practiced in Dura Europos; the new (and considerably smaller) Christian church (Dura-Europos church) appears to have opened shortly before the surviving paintings were begun in the synagogue. The large-scale pictorial art in the synagogue came as a surprise to scholars, although they already suspected that there was a tradition of Jewish narrative religious art at this period, which had all been lost, leaving only traces in later Christian art. The discovery of the synagogue helps to dispel narrow interpretations of Judaism's historical prohibition of visual images.







depiction of Abraham




« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 11:10:03 PM by White Israelite »

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2010, 10:46:27 PM »
One would assume the Israelites were forbidden from creating impressions of themselves? 

Assume based on what?

Maybe you are confusing with Islam?  Judaism does not forbid depicting humans in drawings or paintings or 'visual images.'

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2010, 10:48:35 PM »
Also, I don't understand - one of the pictures they show in your link is a depiction of the new testament.  So how is that Jewish or used to measure acceptability in Jewish custom?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2010, 10:49:22 PM »
Assume based on what?

Maybe you are confusing with Islam?  Judaism does not forbid depicting humans in drawings or paintings or 'visual images.'

I think he means that some Jews today do not believe in depicting human images.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2010, 10:50:35 PM »
Assume based on what?

Maybe you are confusing with Islam?  Judaism does not forbid depicting humans in drawings or paintings or 'visual images.'

I think he means that some Jews today do not believe in depicting human images.

But what Jews are these?    It's not in Jewish law.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2010, 10:52:49 PM »
But what Jews are these?    It's not in Jewish law.
I can't speak for their motivations. Why do some Jews believe that you must grow a beard no matter what, and others (like Chaim) believe you can shave so long as it is with an electric razor?

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 10:53:08 PM »
Also, I don't understand - one of the pictures they show in your link is a depiction of the new testament.  So how is that Jewish or used to measure acceptability in Jewish custom?

Which one? I copied from wikipedia and it stated it was a synagogue but I didn't check all the pictures.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 10:53:50 PM »
Was referring to "graven images". Muman made a post about it a while ago.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2010, 10:54:30 PM »
Also, I don't understand - one of the pictures they show in your link is a depiction of the new testament.  So how is that Jewish or used to measure acceptability in Jewish custom?

Which one? I copied from wikipedia and it stated it was a synagogue but I didn't check all the pictures.

On your link at the top of your post, click on the picture in the bottom row, 3rd from the left.  It's some kind of healing scene.  They give a caption description.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 10:55:51 PM »
Was referring to "graven images". Muman made a post about it a while ago.

Oh, I see.   Graven images refer to sculptures or statues (figurines, etc).  Not paintings.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 10:58:27 PM »
Oh, I see.   Graven images refer to sculptures or statues (figurines, etc).  Not paintings.
Is any kind of sculpture or statue or figurine forbidden in Judaism under all circumstances or is it an issue of any debate? Christians have always interpreted "graven image" as an item intended for worship but I don't know how Jews view that verse themselves.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 11:01:05 PM »
Oh, I see.   Graven images refer to sculptures or statues (figurines, etc).  Not paintings.
Is any kind of sculpture or statue or figurine forbidden in Judaism under all circumstances or is it an issue of any debate? Christians have always interpreted "graven image" as an item intended for worship but I don't know how Jews view that verse themselves.

We are forbidden from making statues of humans under any circumstances.   It is also forbidden to own a complete one of a human.   As for other types of sculpture or statues (of objects), from what I remember it's not a problem as long as its not made for purpose of worship.  I hope my memory isn't failing me...

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 11:04:29 PM »
We are forbidden from making statues of humans under any circumstances.   It is also forbidden to own a complete one of a human.   As for other types of sculpture or statues (of objects), from what I remember it's not a problem as long as its not made for purpose of worship.  I hope my memory isn't failing me...
Thanks for the clarifications.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2010, 11:10:23 PM »
Also, I don't understand - one of the pictures they show in your link is a depiction of the new testament.  So how is that Jewish or used to measure acceptability in Jewish custom?

Which one? I copied from wikipedia and it stated it was a synagogue but I didn't check all the pictures.

On your link at the top of your post, click on the picture in the bottom row, 3rd from the left.  It's some kind of healing scene.  They give a caption description.

I removed the link.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2010, 11:14:45 PM »
Also, I don't understand - one of the pictures they show in your link is a depiction of the new testament.  So how is that Jewish or used to measure acceptability in Jewish custom?

Which one? I copied from wikipedia and it stated it was a synagogue but I didn't check all the pictures.

On your link at the top of your post, click on the picture in the bottom row, 3rd from the left.  It's some kind of healing scene.  They give a caption description.

I removed the link.

Hey, I'm not so sensitive about that, I'm just saying it's hard to tell whether this place was a synagogue, a church, a synagogue that became a church.... And therefore what do the murals really represent?   At what point were they made and by whom?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2010, 11:29:12 PM »
Hey, I'm not so sensitive about that, I'm just saying it's hard to tell whether this place was a synagogue, a church, a synagogue that became a church.... And therefore what do the murals really represent?   At what point were they made and by whom?
That raises another question for me: what would Judaism today call an ancient synagogue that became a church, before there was a word for church, back when Christianity was still "just" a sect of Judaism? Were they considered heretics yet, or just wayward, or what?

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 01:09:18 AM »
Hey, I'm not so sensitive about that, I'm just saying it's hard to tell whether this place was a synagogue, a church, a synagogue that became a church.... And therefore what do the murals really represent?   At what point were they made and by whom?
That raises another question for me: what would Judaism today call an ancient synagogue that became a church, before there was a word for church, back when Christianity was still "just" a sect of Judaism? Were they considered heretics yet, or just wayward, or what?

It was never a "sect" of Judaism, it was a breakoff movement, and yes they were viewed as heretics.  What they call a building like that, I don't know.   I'm sure there are a lot of possibilities....

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2010, 07:18:45 AM »
Thank you for posting this.  I love the depiction.  It greets me everytime I use my iPhone.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2010, 12:34:13 PM »
Thank you for posting this.  I love the depiction.  It greets me everytime I use my iPhone.

I'm sure the afrocentrists are trying to claim they are black lol. They resemble Sephardic Jews in the pictures.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2010, 01:20:35 PM »
Thank you for posting this.  I love the depiction.  It greets me everytime I use my iPhone.

I'm sure the afrocentrists are trying to claim they are black lol. They resemble Sephardic Jews in the pictures.

Good point, I did notice that and had to chuckle.  But I guess the white man by 300 CE had already stolen black history!    ::)

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Ancient synagogue in Syria depicting Israelites in art?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2010, 01:26:05 PM »
Regardless if the art came from Jewish or Christian sources, the photos seem to define the people of the region and I think that is the evidence needed to show what the original people looked like in the region. What an impressive find, I hope that more art will be uncovered soon, I hear Medina is full of hidden items as it used to be a Jewish kingdom but the Arabs have control of everything.