The Ongoing Debates with Imerica

[Imerica]

I wasn't tallking about the word "[censored]" or the word "coon" or the word "ape", I'd never use such words to describe black people, and I'd hope no one else would, I was referring to the word schvartza.

The word schvartza is actually the Yiddish word for N'ger. I've actually seen it when I quoted someone who called me a schvartza. When I clicked on QUOTE and it went to the text page, '[censored]'ger' was actually the word used. When  you click onto the forum again, its translated as schvartza.

No, it is the Yiddish word for "black man" and I've never seen it translated as "n*gger."  It comes from the word schvartz, which is Yiddish for "black" (as in the color).  Check your facts before you say things, Erica.

Just to test...

schvartza.....

I did this for a reason. When I typed out the N word, once it got back to the discussion it had turned into schvartza. When I went back to see if the N word was representative of Schvartza, the word "schvartza" was in place of the N word I typed. THAT'S where I got the assumption that Schvartza meant N, in Yiddish. I know what I'm talking about.

Go ahead. See for yourself. Type out the word "ni&&er" (the real spelling), then click on post and see what word pops up on the discussion board in its place.

Imerica we all know that. You're not telling us something new. Read ftf's post above. This is a censoring mechanism on this forum. But to assume from that that's what "shvartze" means is not very wise. Better try a yiddish dictionary and look up the word "black". See what you get.

Again... I said, "WOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.." Then, I added "That's one to grow on."...which means that I know Jack Crap but I'm willing to learn more. Could you PLEASE read my responses before trying to make me look like I don't admit when I'm wrong? Thanks.

Oh. Sorry. I didn't see you're post there at the bottom, I guess. But yes, you can learn a great deal on this forum and I hope you will keep an open mind.

I will and I am.

[ftf]

Sorry I'm used to people being sarcastic on a regular basis and expecting you to realise that they are being sarcastic, so I guess I've tarted seeing sarcasm when it isn't there...

[Imerica]

Sorry I'm used to people being sarcastic on a regular basis and expecting you to realise that they are being sarcastic, so I guess I've tarted seeing sarcasm when it isn't there...

It happens, ftf.

[Dissenter]

But yes, you can learn a great deal on this forum and I hope you will keep an open mind.

I will and I am.

Except when we talk about Martin Lucifer King.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

Concerns about his doctoral dissertation at Boston University led to a formal inquiry by university officials, which concluded that approximately a third of it had been plagiarized from a paper written by an earlier graduate student, but it was decided not to revoke his degree, as the paper still "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."

Imerica also "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."

[Imerica]

But yes, you can learn a great deal on this forum and I hope you will keep an open mind.

I will and I am.

Except when we talk about Martin Lucifer King.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

Concerns about his doctoral dissertation at Boston University led to a formal inquiry by university officials, which concluded that approximately a third of it had been plagiarized from a paper written by an earlier graduate student, but it was decided not to revoke his degree, as the paper still "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."

Imerica also "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."

Lets just call it a draw, Dissenter. You're convinced that every black person you meet is out to get you and I'm convinced that Martin Luther King, Jr. wasn't a communist.

[Lubab]

Imerica: "Lets just call it a draw, Dissenter. You're convinced that every black person you meet is out to get you and I'm convinced that Martin Luther King, Jr. wasn't a communist."

Notice how she exaggerates Dissenter's position ("every black...is out to get you") but not her own ("MLK wasn't a communist"). Is this an honest way to debate?

[Imerica]

Imerica: "Lets just call it a draw, Dissenter. You're convinced that every black person you meet is out to get you and I'm convinced that Martin Luther King, Jr. wasn't a communist."

Notice how she exaggerates Dissenter's position ("every black...is out to get you") but not her own ("MLK wasn't a communist"). Is this an honest way to debate?

You want a honest debate... I'll retract that bit of sarcasm and add this. Dissenter, you're against the black culture and don't think anything else is good about it besides the music...and I'm convinced that MLK wasn't a communist.

[Lubab]

Let's not get side-tracked with side issues.

Try to argue the point, instead of arguing with the person. JTF says: collectively the blacks' behavior in this country has sunk the quality of life in this country and eventually if not stopped will eventually sink the country altogether (see my original post). JTF says programs and outreach projects and affirmative action have been tried for years and on the whole they have failed to solve these problems and they have only gotten worse. More drastic measures are required. Now what do you say?

[Allen-T]

Let's not get side-tracked with side issues.

Try to argue the point, instead of arguing with the person. JTF says: collectively the blacks' behavior in this country has sunk the quality of life in this country and eventually if not stopped will eventually sink the country altogether (see my original post). JTF says programs and outreach projects and affirmative action have been tried for years and on the whole they have failed to solve these problems and they have only gotten worse. More drastic measures are required. Now what do you say?

That's why I love JTF. Reason,truth,solutions. 

[Imerica]

Let's not get side-tracked with side issues.

Try to argue the point, instead of arguing with the person. JTF says: collectively the blacks' behavior in this country has sunk the quality of life in this country and eventually if not stopped will eventually sink the country altogether (see my original post). JTF says programs and outreach projects and affirmative action have been tried for years and on the whole they have failed to solve these problems and they have only gotten worse. More drastic measures are required. Now what do you say?

"Collectively the blacks behavior in this country has sunk the quality of life in this country..." Now, if I'm not mistaken, COLLECTIVELY means EVERYONE. Now it comes out. Now EVERY black is the reason why the the country's quality of life has gone down?

[Lubab]

Yes you are mistaken.

col·lec·tive     
1.   formed by collection.
2.   forming a whole; combined: the collective assets of a corporation and its subsidiaries.
3.   of or characteristic of a group of individuals taken together: the collective wishes of the membership.
4.   organized according to the principles of collectivism: a collective farm.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

That means that you take the blacks' behavior as a whole. The good the bad the ugly and you look at what it's all done to the quality of life in this country ON THE WHOLE. And you're response is....

Shall we call a truce?

[Daniel]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

I agree that it is good to be compassionate and guide the misguided in the right direction.  But to what limit are we supposed to show mercy and to whom?

My point was not to show mercy. My point was is that we should take on the attitude of trying to help and serve instead of trying to demonize.

[Dr. Dan]

[/quote]

My point was not to show mercy. My point was is that we should take on the attitude of trying to help and serve instead of trying to demonize.
[/quote]

Maybe i should reword the word "mercy" to "being compassionate"
Jews have tried to help the very same people who are helping, but to no avail. 

[Daniel]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

Boy you are barking up the wrong tree with this line of thinking. Are you looking for a medal for working with the under privileged you will get it in about 6 or 7 years when you get tenure in the school system and make about 100 g's a year. You speak of how the people in the South Bronx don't have health care when in in fact the might have better health care through social services then many people who work and have to pay for their insurance. I always envy the City School teachers who get full medical coverage at no cost. What do they care that everyone else's premiums go up each year to absorb all the dead wood in the health care system that has to be treated. Its people like you always looking for excuses  and expecting others to pay the freight for all this trash and dead wood waiting for programs and handouts that are the problem. If minorities were expected to sink or swim you would be surprised how many would become very industrious. The way you crying liberals made them all they do is look for the next meal ticket.

I'm not looking for any medals and this isn't about me. This is about the way all of you are demonizing blacks and deeming them to be evil. I'm just pointing out that I see firsthand that they are not evil. Why are you so envious of the health care coverage public school teachers get? We don't get our health care coverage for no cost. We get that by working in the system! You make this out like it's some free prize or handout being given away to us! I suppose anybody else who gets healthcare coverage through their job should also be envied for getting free healthcare coverage. If we teachers are so darned spoiled, then why is there still such a massive shortage of teachers? If we have it so good, why aren't so many more people flocking toward the field? In fact, the opposite is happening. There is such a large turnover of teachers. It's very easy to criticize from the outside when you have absolutely no idea what it's like to work in the field. I'm not looking for any medals. But now it seems like you're not just criticizing blacks, but public school teachers as well. And all of this is somehow supposed to help us fulfill our Zionist objectives!

[Daniel]

My point was not to show mercy. My point was is that we should take on the attitude of trying to help and serve instead of trying to demonize.
[/quote]

Maybe i should reword the word "mercy" to "being compassionate"
Jews have tried to help the very same people who are helping, but to no avail. 
[/quote]

I can't completely agree with that since I've seen firsthand that we have succeeded with a good number of our students. So if you don't want to show mercy or be compassionate, that's fine. It's a free country and it's your choice. But what's the point in going out of our way to demonize them? What are we going to accomplish for ourselves other than make it look like we Zionists really are racists?

[Daniel]

Let's not get side-tracked with side issues.

Try to argue the point, instead of arguing with the person. JTF says: collectively the blacks' behavior in this country has sunk the quality of life in this country and eventually if not stopped will eventually sink the country altogether (see my original post). JTF says programs and outreach projects and affirmative action have been tried for years and on the whole they have failed to solve these problems and they have only gotten worse. More drastic measures are required. Now what do you say?

"Collectively the blacks behavior in this country has sunk the quality of life in this country..." Now, if I'm not mistaken, COLLECTIVELY means EVERYONE. Now it comes out. Now EVERY black is the reason why the the country's quality of life has gone down?

Hey, everyone needs a scapegoat, right? 

[Daniel]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

This isn't just rhetoric, Daniel. Before the civil rights movement whitey had the sense to keep savages under control by force. It was a terrible mistake giving them freedom. This is a fact. They were better socialised when whitey kept them under wraps, when they knew a lynching awaited when they stepped out of line. Today they expect the white to be lynched who dares suggest they are less than wonderful. Daniel, everything that can be done for blacks has been done, they don't want civilisation. If a JTF minded government were ever established here in America, at the very least blacks would be brought under control if not deported back to the motherland. Better to work for a possible but improbable paradise than a completely insane notion that anything more can be done to help them. They don't want it. They hate whitey, let them have what they want most, A-F-R-I-C-A. And before Umerica chimes in with "I ain't from Africa", Most blacks should be shipped to Africa soley based on their anti-white feelings. They hate the white brains and talent that built this country, they hate the white brains and talent that used to maintain this country, so go where there is nothing but schvartzas. It's common sense. It's the natural response to the schvartzas biggest gripe.

And just what will be the litmus test to differentiate the anti-white blacks from the Alan Keyes blacks?

[Daniel]

What's the big deal about the word schvartza? It's just the yiddish for black.

That's true. However the connotation and the context is being used as an ethnic slur.

The word "Jew" by itself is not bad. But if someone were to use Jew as a verb like, "He jewed me down to the lowest possible price", then I think some of us would have a little problem with it?

I just love those schvartze and honkey pinstripe colors of the NY Yankees. See, that context doesn't seem quite as bad 

Anyway, enough of me being silly 

[Daniel]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

This isn't just rhetoric, Daniel. Before the civil rights movement whitey had the sense to keep savages under control by force. It was a terrible mistake giving them freedom. This is a fact. They were better socialised when whitey kept them under wraps, when they knew a lynching awaited when they stepped out of line. Today they expect the white to be lynched who dares suggest they are less than wonderful. Daniel, everything that can be done for blacks has been done, they don't want civilisation. If a JTF minded government were ever established here in America, at the very least blacks would be brought under control if not deported back to the motherland. Better to work for a possible but improbable paradise than a completely insane notion that anything more can be done to help them. They don't want it. They hate whitey, let them have what they want most, A-F-R-I-C-A. And before Umerica chimes in with "I ain't from Africa", Most blacks should be shipped to Africa soley based on their anti-white feelings. They hate the white brains and talent that built this country, they hate the white brains and talent that used to maintain this country, so go where there is nothing but schvartzas. It's common sense. It's the natural response to the schvartzas biggest gripe.

Allen, you're just hateful. You hate when people show love. You hate when people say there are other ways to fight the evils of society.  You hate just because it feels empowering. And I just LOVE the way you twist my words into ebonics. That just goes to show how ignorant YOU are. I've never said AIN'T here. And about the Africa thing, again.. stop assuming that every black person wants to go back to Africa. And for the sake of argument, I'm NOT from Africa. I've never lived there. I never visited Africa...but probably will when my children are older. I don't want to live there though and that's what people in the real world would call a 'personal preference'.

However, since we're on the subject of who built this country, please deny that the slaves who were brought here from Africa had anything to do with the industrial development of America. All the cotton, tobacco, and indigo that was planted and picked...but not before the fields were tilled, hoed, fertilized, and sweated over.

What's interesting is that the main reason why the whites imported the the Africans as slaves is because the white Americans didn't know how to harvest their crops well enough and they needed the Africans who knew much better how to harvest the crops. Ah, but Chaim and everyone else would never admit or even recognize this now, would they? That would completely contradict the presumption that the black slaves were lazy! Oh no! The world would might stop spinning and the universe would explode!

Hey, Erica, while we're at it, the only challenge I give to you is to come back to the Ask JTF forum and continue asking and challenging Chaim. We certainly could use the variety of opinions and the challenging debates! Oh, and if you really wanted to be smart alecky, you could add it a little "mmm hmmm" as well 

But all kidding aside, have the rest of you noticed how Erica never said "mmm hmmm" or used any other type of language that even remotely resembles Ebonics?

[ftf]

Daniel, your wrong there, they knew how to harvest their crops, it was more a case of being able to get more done for less moeny by using slaves, and the fact that the heat of the sun doesn't effect blacks as badly as whites. Nothing to do with knowledge.

[Daniel]

Daniel, your wrong there, they knew how to harvest their crops, it was more a case of being able to get more done for less moeny by using slaves, and the fact that the heat of the sun doesn't effect blacks as badly as whites. Nothing to do with knowledge.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. But even for the reasons that you state, aren't those just disgusting reasons to kidnap people from their native countries, tear their families apart, and force them to work as slaves?

[ftf]

I'm not saying that slavery was good, it was disgraceful. Though I would like to point out that the whites didn't start the slave trade, the chieftan's of african tribes offered   the prisoners they'd taken from other tribes as a trade item, whites did not go and kidnap the people in the first place. So the entire blame cannot be laid at the feet of the whites.

[Daniel]

I'm not saying that slavery was good, it was disgraceful. Though I would like to point out that the whites didn't start the slave trade, the chieftan's of african tribes offered   the prisoners they'd taken from other tribes as a trade item, whites did not go and kidnap the people in the first place. So the entire blame cannot be laid at the feet of the whites.

I agree with you on this. But this just makes me wonder that if we cannot blame the whites in entirety, why is it that we can so easily blame blacks and arabs in entirety? Why not just judge people as individuals across the board? I know this might be going off on a tangent a bit, but just something that comes to mind now.

[ftf]

We should blame the whites for participating in the slave trade, I was just pointing out that it isn't 100% their fault, the black chieftans were also at fault.

Some people around here blame all blacks and all arabs for certain things, I do not, and I agree with you Daniel that it is wrong to do so. A large number of blacks and a large number of arabs are a problem, and we therefore need to be on gaurd against them, but we must make sure that we don't demonise all blacks and arabs, because they aren't all bad.

[Hail Columbia]

I'm not saying that slavery was good, it was disgraceful. Though I would like to point out that the whites didn't start the slave trade, the chieftan's of african tribes offered   the prisoners they'd taken from other tribes as a trade item, whites did not go and kidnap the people in the first place. So the entire blame cannot be laid at the feet of the whites.

http://www.dixieoutfitters.com/heritage/cw49.shtml

Myth number two: The White man captured slaves in the African jungles. From Alan Taylor’s American Colonies (Viking, 2001), we read:

Popular myth has it that the Europeans obtained their slaves by attacking and seizing Africans. In fact, the shippers almost always bought their slaves from African middlemen, generally the leading merchants and chiefs of the coastal kingdoms. Determined to profit from the trade, the African traders and chiefs did not tolerate Europeans who foolishly bypassed them to seize slaves on their own initiative. And during the eighteenth century the Africans had the power to defeat Europeans who failed to cooperate. Contrary to the stereotype of shrewd Europeans cheating weak and gullible natives, the European traders had to pay premium, and rising, prices to African chiefs and traders, who drove a hard bargain.

The Europeans exploited and expanded the slavery long practiced by Africans. Some slaves were starving children sold by their impoverished parents. Others were debtors or criminals sentenced to slavery. But most were taken in wars between kingdoms or simply kidnapped by armed gangs.

The African raiders marched their captives to the coast in long lines know as coffles: dozens of people yoked together by the neck with leather thongs to prevent escape. Some marches to the coast exceeded five hundred miles and six months. About a quarter of the captives died along the way from some combination of disease, hunger, exhaustion, beatings, and suicide.

Upon reaching the coast, the captors herded their captives into walled pens called barracoons. Stripped naked, the slaves were closely examined by European traders, who wanted only reasonably healthy and young people, preferably male.