The Ongoing Debates with Imerica

[Imerica]

I'm not saying slavery wasn't bad, it was terrible, despicable, evil, an utter disgrace.

I'm not saying that New World slavery was a good thing which happened to blacks.

I'm saying that it was the best thing which happened to blacks, in the whole benighted history of their race.

Here's something which I posted on another thread. Please don't feel "burned" by it, Imerica.

After visiting Africa and seeing at first hand its wretchedness and violence, Muhammed Ali, a.k.a. Cassius Clay, expressed his gratitude that "my great granddaddy caught that ship."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,976426,00.html

But you don't have to visit Africa. Just watch Blood Diamond, The Last King of Scotland and G-d Sleeps in Rwanda, all excellent movies. Despite a whiff of political correctness, Blood Diamond is particularly good.

CNN recently reported on religious fanatic hophead cannibal girl child soldiers fighting and f***ing for the so-called Army of G-d in Uganda.

And they're the ones on our side!

  FYI, I've seen The Last King of Scotland... Amin was an evil man who deserved much worse than his death. And though I haven't seen "Sleeps in Rwanda" I have seen "Hotel Rwanda". But what I'd like to say to you is that you shouldn't assume that everyone in Africa is a cannibal. That's terribly inacurate. And the 'fighting and f***ing for the army of G_d Uganda' are you speaking are you speaking of rapes? If so, how are they on YOUR side?

[Imerica]

I'm not saying slavery wasn't bad, it was terrible, despicable, evil, an utter disgrace.

I'm not saying that New World slavery was a good thing which happened to blacks.

I'm saying that it was the best thing which happened to blacks, in the whole benighted history of their race.

And about this quote ^^  How exactly was slavery the best thing that's ever happened to blacks in the history of our race? Will you ellaborate, because I find that disturbing. Perhaps if Africans came here of their own free will all those years ago and there was no such thing as slavery, racism, or hatred, we'd have assimilated into the perfect society. However because of the slave trade, not only were the freedoms of those blacks put on auction, along with their bodies and pride, but their entire being was sold. Because of slavery, no matter how much we strive to be a great race (those who are trying) we'll always be thought of as monkeys, coons and the like.

[Imerica]

I'm not saying slavery wasn't bad, it was terrible, despicable, evil, an utter disgrace.

I'm not saying that New World slavery was a good thing which happened to blacks.

I'm saying that it was the best thing which happened to blacks, in the whole benighted history of their race.

And about this quote ^^  How exactly was slavery the best thing that's ever happened to blacks in the history of our race? Will you ellaborate, because I find that disturbing. Perhaps if Africans came here of their own free will all those years ago and there was no such thing as slavery, racism, or hatred, we'd have assimilated into the perfect society. However because of the slave trade, not only were the freedoms of those blacks put on auction, along with their bodies and pride, but their entire being was sold. Because of slavery, no matter how much we strive to be a great race (those who are trying) we'll always be thought of as monkeys, coons and the like.

Are you not going to answer, Dissenter?

[ItalianZionist]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefited from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

[genteelgentile]

Not enough people try...

[ItalianZionist]

I'm not saying slavery wasn't bad, it was terrible, despicable, evil, an utter disgrace.

I'm not saying that New World slavery was a good thing which happened to blacks.

I'm saying that it was the best thing which happened to blacks, in the whole benighted history of their race.

And about this quote ^^  How exactly was slavery the best thing that's ever happened to blacks in the history of our race? Will you ellaborate, because I find that disturbing. Perhaps if Africans came here of their own free will all those years ago and there was no such thing as slavery, racism, or hatred, we'd have assimilated into the perfect society. However because of the slave trade, not only were the freedoms of those blacks put on auction, along with their bodies and pride, but their entire being was sold. Because of slavery, no matter how much we strive to be a great race (those who are trying) we'll always be thought of as monkeys, coons and the like.

Are you not going to answer, Dissenter?

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefited from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

[Imerica]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

[ItalianZionist]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

Let's get real Imerica. These people from West Africa didn't even know how to build a ship. How were they going to come to the New World? They prefered to stay in AFrica..That's understandable. It was their home and of course they did not want to be slaves..BUT YOU and the present blacks have benefited from this by living in the US TODAY. Had it not been for slavery you would most likely live in West Africa today. Would you prefer that?

Also the standard of living of the Jews' descendents did not increase due to the Holocaust..

[Imerica]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

Let's get real Imerica. These people from West Africa didn't even know how to build a ship. How were they going to come to the New World? They prefered to stay in AFrica..That's understandable. It was their home and of course they did not want to be slaves..BUT YOU and the present blacks have benefited from this by living in the US TODAY. Had it not been for slavery you would most likely live in West Africa today. Would you prefer that?

Also the standard of living of the Jews' descendents did not increase due to the Holocaust..

Excuse me but what I'm saying is that since the boat was there...why didn't they run to it and volunteer their services to the white man rather than be put into cages like lions and chained together.

Second, what? I've actually had it said to me once that I should be grateful to the white man for my freedom and that slavery was enacted because now I'm a free woman. I see nothing at all encouraging about that argument. I don't know what its like to live in West Africa.  Who knows what West Africa would be like if it hadn't been invaded by slave ships back in the 1500's. Who knows? For all we know, because of the slave trade, the quality of life went down there in Africa.

For the record though, I would have been  happy to live anywhere where my children weren't stripped from me, or my husband separated from me so that I could pick cotton for some lazy plantation owner. I'll offer this also. Slave women were raped a lot... I was raped also, not by a white man but I suffered the same mental distress. So in retrospect, freedom from slavery and the civil rights movement benefitted blacks. Slavery in itself saved us from nothing.

[Imerica]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

Let's get real Imerica. These people from West Africa didn't even know how to build a ship. How were they going to come to the New World? They prefered to stay in AFrica..That's understandable. It was their home and of course they did not want to be slaves..BUT YOU and the present blacks have benefited from this by living in the US TODAY. Had it not been for slavery you would most likely live in West Africa today. Would you prefer that?

Also the standard of living of the Jews' descendents did not increase due to the Holocaust..

And for the last statement ^^^ my question was whether it was okay for someone to come to you and say " You Jews should be happy that the holocaust even happened! " ?

[ItalianZionist]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

Let's get real Imerica. These people from West Africa didn't even know how to build a ship. How were they going to come to the New World? They prefered to stay in AFrica..That's understandable. It was their home and of course they did not want to be slaves..BUT YOU and the present blacks have benefited from this by living in the US TODAY. Had it not been for slavery you would most likely live in West Africa today. Would you prefer that?

Also the standard of living of the Jews' descendents did not increase due to the Holocaust..

Excuse me but what I'm saying is that since the boat was there...why didn't they run to it and volunteer their services to the white man rather than be put into cages like lions and chained together.

Second, what? I've actually had it said to me once that I should be grateful to the white man for my freedom and that slavery was enacted because now I'm a free woman. I see nothing at all encouraging about that argument. I don't know what its like to live in West Africa.  Who knows what West Africa would be like if it hadn't been invaded by slave ships back in the 1500's. Who knows? For all we know, because of the slave trade, the quality of life went down there in Africa.

For the record though, I would have been  happy to live anywhere where my children weren't stripped from me, or my husband separated from me so that I could pick cotton for some lazy plantation owner. I'll offer this also. Slave women were raped a lot... I was raped also, not by a white man but I suffered the same mental distress. So in retrospect, freedom from slavery and the civil rights movement benefitted blacks. Slavery in itself saved us from nothing.

Again I agree, FOR YOUR ANCESTORS, slavery was a tragedy, but not for you. Due to slavery you are now living in a higher quality of life than you wouyld have in Africa.

Let's face facts Imerica, the quality of life in West Africa was dismal compared to Europe BEFORE THE SLAVE TRADE as well as AFTER The SLAVE TRADE. So you can't say that slavery prevented the Africans from being advanced.

[ItalianZionist]

You're right the jews shouldn't be happy about the Holocaust, just as you should not be happy about your ancestor's suffering. But more AfroAmericans should realize that they did increase their standard of living by coming here and stop acting as if they are suffering just as badly as their ancestors did.

[Imerica]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

Let's get real Imerica. These people from West Africa didn't even know how to build a ship. How were they going to come to the New World? They prefered to stay in AFrica..That's understandable. It was their home and of course they did not want to be slaves..BUT YOU and the present blacks have benefited from this by living in the US TODAY. Had it not been for slavery you would most likely live in West Africa today. Would you prefer that?

Also the standard of living of the Jews' descendents did not increase due to the Holocaust..

Excuse me but what I'm saying is that since the boat was there...why didn't they run to it and volunteer their services to the white man rather than be put into cages like lions and chained together.

Second, what? I've actually had it said to me once that I should be grateful to the white man for my freedom and that slavery was enacted because now I'm a free woman. I see nothing at all encouraging about that argument. I don't know what its like to live in West Africa.  Who knows what West Africa would be like if it hadn't been invaded by slave ships back in the 1500's. Who knows? For all we know, because of the slave trade, the quality of life went down there in Africa.

For the record though, I would have been  happy to live anywhere where my children weren't stripped from me, or my husband separated from me so that I could pick cotton for some lazy plantation owner. I'll offer this also. Slave women were raped a lot... I was raped also, not by a white man but I suffered the same mental distress. So in retrospect, freedom from slavery and the civil rights movement benefitted blacks. Slavery in itself saved us from nothing.

Again I agree, FOR YOUR ANCESTORS, slavery was a tragedy, but not for you. Due to slavery you are now living in a higher quality of life than you wouyld have in Africa.

Let's face facts Imerica, the quality of life in West Africa was dismal compared to Europe BEFORE THE SLAVE TRADE as well as AFTER The SLAVE TRADE. So you can't say that slavery prevented the Africans from being advanced.

And I'll offer the same argument, if West Africa was so terrible why didn't the slaves run towards the ships? Why did they need to be taken like they were? Also, NO slavery didn't benefit me at all... the freedom from slavery and the civil rights movement DID! I was born free. If slavery was still on, I'd be in bondage with the rest of the blacks in bondage. Because they were freed, 400 years after the fact (wow took long enough) I was born free.

[Imerica]

You're right the jews shouldn't be happy about the Holocaust, just as you should not be happy about your ancestor's suffering. But more AfroAmericans should realize that they did increase their standard of living by coming here and stop acting as if they are suffering just as badly as their ancestors did.

I agree that the slave mentality needs to stop and has needed to be stopped a long time ago... people who were born free shouldn't act like they're still in chains.

[ItalianZionist]

take care Im... great chatting w/ you.

[Imerica]

take care Im... great chatting w/ you.

You also.

[Dissenter]

Are you not going to answer, Dissenter?

I will in a day or two. It's a very big subject and right now I'm busy with some other things, but I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

By the way, I agree with you about those KFC pictures, and the "ask the ape" business. As I've said before, I feel embarrassed for our organization when I see such things, and I wish that we wouldn't attract them or permit them.

As I've said before, the plain truth, like my recent statement, is plenty strong enough. The rest makes us look vulgar and foolish, and it makes you look good.

Which is something we simply can't allow.

[Imerica]

Are you not going to answer, Dissenter?

I will in a day or two. It's a very big subject and right now I'm busy with some other things, but I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

By the way, I agree with you about those KFC pictures, and the "ask the ape" business. As I've said before, I feel embarrassed for our organization when I see such things, and I wish that we wouldn't attract them or permit them.

As I've said before, the plain truth, like my recent statement, is plenty strong enough. The rest makes us look vulgar and foolish, and it makes you look good.

Which is something we simply can't allow.

((Snaps finger)) Damn. Oh well. LOL

[cjd]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

This isn't just rhetoric, Daniel. Before the civil rights movement whitey had the sense to keep savages under control by force. It was a terrible mistake giving them freedom. This is a fact. They were better socialised when whitey kept them under wraps, when they knew a lynching awaited when they stepped out of line. Today they expect the white to be lynched who dares suggest they are less than wonderful. Daniel, everything that can be done for blacks has been done, they don't want civilisation. If a JTF minded government were ever established here in America, at the very least blacks would be brought under control if not deported back to the motherland. Better to work for a possible but improbable paradise than a completely insane notion that anything more can be done to help them. They don't want it. They hate whitey, let them have what they want most, A-F-R-I-C-A. And before Umerica chimes in with "I ain't from Africa", Most blacks should be shipped to Africa soley based on their anti-white feelings. They hate the white brains and talent that built this country, they hate the white brains and talent that used to maintain this country, so go where there is nothing but schvartzas. It's common sense. It's the natural response to the schvartzas biggest gripe.

Allen, you're just hateful. You hate when people show love. You hate when people say there are other ways to fight the evils of society.  You hate just because it feels empowering. And I just LOVE the way you twist my words into ebonics. That just goes to show how ignorant YOU are. I've never said AIN'T here. And about the Africa thing, again.. stop assuming that every black person wants to go back to Africa. And for the sake of argument, I'm NOT from Africa. I've never lived there. I never visited Africa...but probably will when my children are older. I don't want to live there though and that's what people in the real world would call a 'personal preference'.

However, since we're on the subject of who built this country, please deny that the slaves who were brought here from Africa had anything to do with the industrial development of America. All the cotton, tobacco, and indigo that was planted and picked...but not before the fields were tilled, hoed, fertilized, and sweated over.

What's interesting is that the main reason why the whites imported the the Africans as slaves is because the white Americans didn't know how to harvest their crops well enough and they needed the Africans who knew much better how to harvest the crops. Ah, but Chaim and everyone else would never admit or even recognize this now, would they? That would completely contradict the presumption that the black slaves were lazy! Oh no! The world would might stop spinning and the universe would explode!

Hey, Erica, while we're at it, the only challenge I give to you is to come back to the Ask JTF forum and continue asking and challenging Chaim. We certainly could use the variety of opinions and the challenging debates! Oh, and if you really wanted to be smart alecky, you could add it a little "mmm hmmm" as well 

But all kidding aside, have the rest of you noticed how Erica never said "mmm hmmm" or used any other type of language that even remotely resembles Ebonics?

Daniel I only hope you don't teach  history. What type of revisionist cr-p are you trying to get us to believe here Whites imported African slaves because they didn't know how to harvest crops well. Are you serious. Whites imported blacks for one reason and one reason only they wanted people with strong backs and week minds to work the fields. They were the farm equipment of the day so to speak. Plantation owners needed cheap labor to pick their vegetables just like todays farmers. I call what the government is allowing today with the open borders policy legalized slavery just as it was back then. If  Africans back in the day were able to walk to the southern plantations like the Mexicans do today they would have come in the same number on their own. They would have been called undocumented workers instead of slaves. There would have been no need to put them in bondage to get them here.
There is one thing I hate more than a Liberal it is a Liberal who spouts revisionism. If a Liberal can prove his point to me using historical accounts that existed before the PC altering of  history books thats gone on in the past 25 years I will concede the point. But posting something like that and expecting me and other people to believe a statement like that is comical. Why do you Liberals feel that you have to give blacks and other minorities a made up history and not just let them have the documented history they have.
Blacks in Africa were hunters and gatherers they didn't farm they didn't have plantations. What would they have known about harvesting crops. I would like to see some documentation of the great cotton or tobacco plantations they had back on the old sod that gave them all this knowledge. When plantation owners bought a slave years ago it was just like a farmer going to the John Deer dealer today and buying a combine. Slavery was legal slave owners didn't know that 200 years or so in the future they would be looked on with such disdain. They were buying a slave to work the fields and do as directed not as a agricultural adviser.

[Allen-T]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

This isn't just rhetoric, Daniel. Before the civil rights movement whitey had the sense to keep savages under control by force. It was a terrible mistake giving them freedom. This is a fact. They were better socialised when whitey kept them under wraps, when they knew a lynching awaited when they stepped out of line. Today they expect the white to be lynched who dares suggest they are less than wonderful. Daniel, everything that can be done for blacks has been done, they don't want civilisation. If a JTF minded government were ever established here in America, at the very least blacks would be brought under control if not deported back to the motherland. Better to work for a possible but improbable paradise than a completely insane notion that anything more can be done to help them. They don't want it. They hate whitey, let them have what they want most, A-F-R-I-C-A. And before Umerica chimes in with "I ain't from Africa", Most blacks should be shipped to Africa soley based on their anti-white feelings. They hate the white brains and talent that built this country, they hate the white brains and talent that used to maintain this country, so go where there is nothing but schvartzas. It's common sense. It's the natural response to the schvartzas biggest gripe.

Allen, you're just hateful. You hate when people show love. You hate when people say there are other ways to fight the evils of society.  You hate just because it feels empowering. And I just LOVE the way you twist my words into ebonics. That just goes to show how ignorant YOU are. I've never said AIN'T here. And about the Africa thing, again.. stop assuming that every black person wants to go back to Africa. And for the sake of argument, I'm NOT from Africa. I've never lived there. I never visited Africa...but probably will when my children are older. I don't want to live there though and that's what people in the real world would call a 'personal preference'.

However, since we're on the subject of who built this country, please deny that the slaves who were brought here from Africa had anything to do with the industrial development of America. All the cotton, tobacco, and indigo that was planted and picked...but not before the fields were tilled, hoed, fertilized, and sweated over.

What's interesting is that the main reason why the whites imported the the Africans as slaves is because the white Americans didn't know how to harvest their crops well enough and they needed the Africans who knew much better how to harvest the crops. Ah, but Chaim and everyone else would never admit or even recognize this now, would they? That would completely contradict the presumption that the black slaves were lazy! Oh no! The world would might stop spinning and the universe would explode!

Hey, Erica, while we're at it, the only challenge I give to you is to come back to the Ask JTF forum and continue asking and challenging Chaim. We certainly could use the variety of opinions and the challenging debates! Oh, and if you really wanted to be smart alecky, you could add it a little "mmm hmmm" as well 

But all kidding aside, have the rest of you noticed how Erica never said "mmm hmmm" or used any other type of language that even remotely resembles Ebonics?

Daniel I only hope you don't teach  history. What type of revisionist cr-p are you trying to get us to believe here Whites imported African slaves because they didn't know how to harvest crops well. Are you serious. Whites imported blacks for one reason and one reason only they wanted people with strong backs and week minds to work the fields. They were the farm equipment of the day so to speak. Plantation owners needed cheap labor to pick their vegetables just like todays farmers. I call what the government is allowing today with the open borders policy legalized slavery just as it was back then. If  Africans back in the day were able to walk to the southern plantations like the Mexicans do today they would have come in the same number on their own. They would have been called undocumented workers instead of slaves. There would have been no need to put them in bondage to get them here.
There is one thing I hate more than a Liberal it is a Liberal who spouts revisionism. If a Liberal can prove his point to me using historical accounts that existed before the PC altering of  history books thats gone on in the past 25 years I will concede the point. But posting something like that and expecting me and other people to believe a statement like that is comical. Why do you Liberals feel that you have to give blacks and other minorities a made up history and not just let them have the documented history they have.
Blacks in Africa were hunters and gatherers they didn't farm they didn't have plantations. What would they have known about harvesting crops. I would like to see some documentation of the great cotton or tobacco plantations they had back on the old sod that gave them all this knowledge. When plantation owners bought a slave years ago it was just like a farmer going to the John Deer dealer today and buying a combine. Slavery was legal slave owners didn't know that 200 years or so in the future they would be looked on with such disdain. They were buying a slave to work the fields and do as directed not as a agricultural adviser.

We should have picked our own damn cotton.

[cjd]

Exactly!! And now we are going down the same road with the Mexicans. What is that saying.  People who don't know history will repeat the same mistakes of the past.

[Daniel]

Slavery was definitely an injustice to your ANCESTORS not the present blacks. Would you  rather live in a third world country in Africa where the standard of living is dismal. Had your ancestors never come here, you would never be using a cell phone, driving a car and eating 3 square meals a day. The slaves were taken from West Africa, which is a dreadful place to live compared to where you live now. So you have benefitted from slavery, although unfortunately your ancestors did suffer.

Damn... I didn't say it was to us now... but come on, would you be happy if someone said something as equally insulting to you about the holocaust? I've heard from Chaim that he blames those who were killed in the holocaust for "not fighting hard enough" against it. Would you be happy if I came along and said... "OH, the holocaust was THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPEND TO YOUR PEOPLE." ? I'm sure you'd just assume spit in my face for saying some dumb crap like that.  

Those slaves were taken from West Africa, true... but if it was such a terrible place to live, why didn't the prospective laborers voluntarily leave Africa for a new and WONDERFUL life in the New World? Why did they have to be chained up, auctioned off, separated from their children and families, raped, beaten, slaughtered, burned . And then hanged for wanting to be free from bondage? Yes, they toiled, escaped and some educated themselves so that the future blacks wouldn't have to but it doesn't take away from the fact that slavery in any capacity was horrific.

Let's get real Imerica. These people from West Africa didn't even know how to build a ship. How were they going to come to the New World? They prefered to stay in AFrica..That's understandable. It was their home and of course they did not want to be slaves..BUT YOU and the present blacks have benefited from this by living in the US TODAY. Had it not been for slavery you would most likely live in West Africa today. Would you prefer that?

Also the standard of living of the Jews' descendents did not increase due to the Holocaust..

If we didn't have the Holocaust, we might not have the state of Israel today. Does that mean we should be grateful for the Holocaust?

[Daniel]

I work in a middle school in the south Bronx and understand and see firsthand the problems and issues that exist in the community. But instead of taking on an attitude of demonizing and feeling like this is something that needs to be defeated, we do our darnedest to help out as much as we can to raise the sinking ship and plug up the holes as much as possible. It seems like you just want to state how there is a sinking ship with lots of gaping holes and your solution is to just shoot more holes into it to make the ship sink faster in order to "defeat evil." The idea of actually trying to do anything to help out and to serve these communities is morally repugnant and self-hating to you. I'm sorry, but I don't identify and think that way. It's true that there are a lot of problems in these areas. But it's not a simple issue of concluding that these people are evil. There are many other issues and factors that these communities need to face. They don't have the healthcare that the rest of us take for granted. This, in turn, causes a lot more students that need to depend on related healthcare services from the schools, and then the school system many times don't comply with the state mandates. There are many people in the community that are working their hardest just to survive. I can't even begin to understand what it must be like to live in a community like this with these types of issues and problems. So I think that someone who doesn't even work in these communities or these settings can even come close to understanding the issues and what needs to be done. All I know is that taking on a demonizing mentality does absolutely nothing to resolve anything! The only way to make any type of positive differences is to recognize that yes, there are major problems, but that it's important to help out the best we can by coming up with the best solutions possible and to provide the best possible services we can. But who am I? Just some self-hating liberal Jew who is doing a great disservice by working in the public school system in the neediest communities.

This isn't just rhetoric, Daniel. Before the civil rights movement whitey had the sense to keep savages under control by force. It was a terrible mistake giving them freedom. This is a fact. They were better socialised when whitey kept them under wraps, when they knew a lynching awaited when they stepped out of line. Today they expect the white to be lynched who dares suggest they are less than wonderful. Daniel, everything that can be done for blacks has been done, they don't want civilisation. If a JTF minded government were ever established here in America, at the very least blacks would be brought under control if not deported back to the motherland. Better to work for a possible but improbable paradise than a completely insane notion that anything more can be done to help them. They don't want it. They hate whitey, let them have what they want most, A-F-R-I-C-A. And before Umerica chimes in with "I ain't from Africa", Most blacks should be shipped to Africa soley based on their anti-white feelings. They hate the white brains and talent that built this country, they hate the white brains and talent that used to maintain this country, so go where there is nothing but schvartzas. It's common sense. It's the natural response to the schvartzas biggest gripe.

Allen, you're just hateful. You hate when people show love. You hate when people say there are other ways to fight the evils of society.  You hate just because it feels empowering. And I just LOVE the way you twist my words into ebonics. That just goes to show how ignorant YOU are. I've never said AIN'T here. And about the Africa thing, again.. stop assuming that every black person wants to go back to Africa. And for the sake of argument, I'm NOT from Africa. I've never lived there. I never visited Africa...but probably will when my children are older. I don't want to live there though and that's what people in the real world would call a 'personal preference'.

However, since we're on the subject of who built this country, please deny that the slaves who were brought here from Africa had anything to do with the industrial development of America. All the cotton, tobacco, and indigo that was planted and picked...but not before the fields were tilled, hoed, fertilized, and sweated over.

What's interesting is that the main reason why the whites imported the the Africans as slaves is because the white Americans didn't know how to harvest their crops well enough and they needed the Africans who knew much better how to harvest the crops. Ah, but Chaim and everyone else would never admit or even recognize this now, would they? That would completely contradict the presumption that the black slaves were lazy! Oh no! The world would might stop spinning and the universe would explode!

Hey, Erica, while we're at it, the only challenge I give to you is to come back to the Ask JTF forum and continue asking and challenging Chaim. We certainly could use the variety of opinions and the challenging debates! Oh, and if you really wanted to be smart alecky, you could add it a little "mmm hmmm" as well 

But all kidding aside, have the rest of you noticed how Erica never said "mmm hmmm" or used any other type of language that even remotely resembles Ebonics?

Daniel I only hope you don't teach  history. What type of revisionist cr-p are you trying to get us to believe here Whites imported African slaves because they didn't know how to harvest crops well. Are you serious. Whites imported blacks for one reason and one reason only they wanted people with strong backs and week minds to work the fields. They were the farm equipment of the day so to speak. Plantation owners needed cheap labor to pick their vegetables just like todays farmers. I call what the government is allowing today with the open borders policy legalized slavery just as it was back then. If  Africans back in the day were able to walk to the southern plantations like the Mexicans do today they would have come in the same number on their own. They would have been called undocumented workers instead of slaves. There would have been no need to put them in bondage to get them here.
There is one thing I hate more than a Liberal it is a Liberal who spouts revisionism. If a Liberal can prove his point to me using historical accounts that existed before the PC altering of  history books thats gone on in the past 25 years I will concede the point. But posting something like that and expecting me and other people to believe a statement like that is comical. Why do you Liberals feel that you have to give blacks and other minorities a made up history and not just let them have the documented history they have.
Blacks in Africa were hunters and gatherers they didn't farm they didn't have plantations. What would they have known about harvesting crops. I would like to see some documentation of the great cotton or tobacco plantations they had back on the old sod that gave them all this knowledge. When plantation owners bought a slave years ago it was just like a farmer going to the John Deer dealer today and buying a combine. Slavery was legal slave owners didn't know that 200 years or so in the future they would be looked on with such disdain. They were buying a slave to work the fields and do as directed not as a agricultural adviser.

Oh my! The whites kidnapped the blacks as slaves because they wanted, "strong backs and weak minds" Wow! I'm no history teacher (I'm a speech-language teacher), the more liberal teachers are the ones that teach Social Studies. But I dare you to walk into a classroom and teach slavery with this account, stong backs and week minds and that they were the equivelent of lawn tractors. If that is in fact true, that's a very sick mentality that the White man had back then!

[ftf]

The whites didn't kidnap the blacks, they bought themfrom other blacks. In many ways it was an extension of what we see today in the moving of jobs (factories, call centres etc) to india and other such places, it was the ultimate in cheap labour. (note, I am opposed to cheap labour of any form)

[Daniel]

The whites didn't kidnap the blacks, they bought themfrom other blacks. In many ways it was an extension of what we see today in the moving of jobs (factories, call centres etc) to india and other such places, it was the ultimate in cheap labour. (note, I am opposed to cheap labour of any form)

Um, I don't think we can equate the slave trade with outsourcing labor.