Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Ovadiya Yosef: "Fires in Israel because of Sabbath Profanation"
muman613:
My observation is this.... Whether you like the Rabbi or not... Did he speak the truth?
I looked in Talmud Masechet Shabbat for the portion he discusses. I found it
Shabbat Masechet 119b
http://halakhah.com/shabbath/shabbath_119.html#PARTb
I will quote the relevant section and the surrounding context below:
--- Quote ---R. Joshua b. Levi said: He who responds, 'Amen, May His great Name be blessed,' with all his might, his decreed sentence12 is torn up, as it is said, When retribution was annulled13 in Israel, For that the people offered themselves willingly, Bless ye the Lord:14 why when retribution was annulled'? Because they blessed the Lord. R. Hiyya b. Abba said in R. Johanan's name: Even if he has a taint of idolatry, he is forgiven: it is written here, 'when retribution was annulled [bifroa' pera'oth]'; whilst elsewhere it is written, And Moses saw that the people were broken loose [parua']; for Aaron had let them loose.15
Resh Lakish said: He who responds 'Amen' with all his might, has the gates of Paradise opened for him, as it is written, Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth truth [shomer emunim] may enter in:16 read not 'shomer emunim' but 'she'omrim amen' [that say, amen]. What does 'amen' mean? — Said R. Hanina: God, faithful King.17
Rab Judah son of R. Samuel said in Rab's name: An [outbreak of] fire occurs only in a place where there is desecration of the Sabbath, for it is said, But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day and not to bear a burden … then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.18 What does 'and it shall not be quenched' mean? — Said R. Nahman b. Isaac: At the time when no people are available to quench it.
Abaye said: Jerusalem was destroyed only because the Sabbath was desecrated therein, as it is said, and they have hid their eyes from My sabbaths, therefore I am profaned among them.19
--- End quote ---
It seems that the Rabbi was correct in saying that fire comes when the Sabbath is desecrated. I do not profess to know the ways that Hashem works, but I do believe that the Chazal and the Rabbis of the Talmud knew what they were talking about...
IsraeliGovtAreKapos:
--- Quote from: Lisa on December 04, 2010, 08:19:36 PM ---Well then why not say, they have to hunt down and kill the Arabs that did this?
--- End quote ---
Where's the contradiction?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Ron Ben Michael on December 05, 2010, 12:55:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on December 04, 2010, 09:45:30 PM ---
--- Quote from: It's Just Mo on December 04, 2010, 06:32:57 PM ---I hear what he's saying. Everything comes from Hashem.
--- End quote ---
But this happened also to a religious kibbutz!
--- End quote ---
to Communist Capitalists? ::)
--- End quote ---
Oh so all kibbutznikim are evil even if they have are chozer b'teshuvah. ron it seems like you label every single group as evil except yourself!
Moreover, it's besides the point. The only relevant point here is if they are shomer shabbat or not. There certainly do exist shomer shabbat kibbutznikim. And A7 described this place as religious kibbutz. They wouldn't call it that if they weren't shomer shabbat. So this wacked out "THEORY" is clearly WRONG since the fire also happened to people who DO NOT desecrate shabbat.
of course we also know that druze are not obligated in shabbat laws, but that brings us to the obvious problem with this so-called Theory - we know the ACTUAL reason this started, because of terrorist druze who set the freaking fires!
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
btw, guess which minister was in charge of Israel's firefighting services and resources?
Wait for it...
Yup, you guessed it -
Minister of Interior ELI YISHAI lead politician of $ha$
Could there possibly have been an agenda behind this so-called theory? Oh gee, I just don't know...
mord:
This isn't Yishai fault he asked for more money for fire fighting but they only gave him a pittance.In any event this problem goes back 20 yrs
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