Ovadiya Yosef: "Fires in Israel because of Sabbath Profanation"

[wonga66]

As usual, Ovadiya Yosef, the arch fanner of flames, and of whom we Kahanists are no fans ourselves, drives the Moderdox and secularists spare with his Theoditic pronouncements, although sometimes he may have a point (Kahanist IL MK Michael ben Ari says that no Theodicy is involved: the fires are a result of pure human terroristic Ishamelitic free-will malace):



http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=197988
    Ovadia Yosef: Fires only happen where Shabbat is desecrated    
Shas Council of Torah Sages Head Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said on Saturday night that the devastating Carmel fire was a result of insufficient Shabbat observance in the area.

“Fires only happen in a place where Shabbat is desecrated,” he quoted from the Babylonian Talmud Shabbat tractate in his weekly sermon. “Homes were ruined," he continued, "entire neighborhoods wiped out, and it is not arbitrary. It is all divine providence.”

“We must repent, keep Shabbat appropriately. When the People of Israel repent, G-d safeguards them with a wall of fire,” but not of the incinerating type, Yosef added.

[wonga66]

And meanwhile the Muslims have their own Theoditic explanation: "It's Allah punishing Israel for occupying Allah-given Palestinian Lands"!http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=197963

[White Israelite]

Could you have at least found a better picture? ...............

[Lisa]

Doesn't ROY have anything to say about the fact that it was caused by A-RABS?

[The One and Only Mo]

I hear what he's saying. Everything comes from Hashem.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Doesn't ROY have anything to say about the fact that it was caused by A-RABS?

Too hard to write Rav Ovadiya Yosef? What is this belittling of a Rabbi?

In Judaism, everything comes from Hashem, both good and bad (everything is for good, eventually), the quesetion is for what purpose and for what sin did we get this punishment. I don't think it's the desecration of the Shabbat. I agree with Chaim on this issue.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

You're a truly disgusting sub-human.

[wonga66]

What are you implying by the skull on your avatar having peyos above Islamic scimitars, Ronald?

[Lisa]

Well then why not say, they have to hunt down and kill the Arabs that did this?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Too hard to write Rav Ovadiya Yosef? What is this belittling of a Rabbi?

In Judaism, everything comes from Hashem, both good and bad (everything is for good, eventually), the quesetion is for what purpose and for what sin did we get this punishment. I don't think it's the desecration of the Shabbat. I agree with Chaim on this issue.

Ron, it's just an abbreviation. The reason why most JTFers are concerned about Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is because his halacha always seems to agree with what the Israeli government wants to do, and often seems to concide with major federal funding of Shas schools and institutions. It is not cursing or attacking him to ask why that is.

The view that you just stated is very similar to the Christian doctrine of Calvinism; are you sure that that is the position of all Torah Judaism? I believe that there are many different theories of the action of G-d's will in Judaism.

[Lisa]

You know, this is what I was asking Chaim about on one of my Ask JTF questions. 

If it's all G-d's will, then what is the point of fighting back against these murderous Arab cockroaches, since you would be fighting Hashem's will? 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I hear what he's saying. Everything comes from Hashem.

But this happened also to a religious kibbutz!   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Did the rabbi forget that a religious kibbutz was hit by this fire?

Or did his handlers hide that information from him like the crooks that they are always trying to promote themselves and their agenda?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I hear what he's saying. Everything comes from Hashem.

But this happened also to a religious kibbutz!   

to Communist Capitalists? 

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

What are you implying by the skull on your avatar having peyos above Islamic scimitars, Ronald?

See, you can't read Hebrew 

[muman613]

My observation is this.... Whether you like the Rabbi or not... Did he speak the truth?

I looked in Talmud Masechet Shabbat for the portion he discusses. I found it

Shabbat Masechet 119b

http://halakhah.com/shabbath/shabbath_119.html#PARTb

I will quote the relevant section and the surrounding context below:

R. Joshua b. Levi said: He who responds, 'Amen, May His great Name be blessed,' with all his might, his decreed sentence12  is torn up, as it is said, When retribution was annulled13  in Israel, For that the people offered themselves willingly, Bless ye the Lord:14  why when retribution was annulled'? Because they blessed the Lord. R. Hiyya b. Abba said in R. Johanan's name: Even if he has a taint of idolatry, he is forgiven: it is written here, 'when retribution was annulled [bifroa' pera'oth]'; whilst elsewhere it is written, And Moses saw that the people were broken loose [parua']; for Aaron had let them loose.15

Resh Lakish said: He who responds 'Amen' with all his might, has the gates of Paradise opened for him, as it is written, Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth truth [shomer emunim] may enter in:16  read not 'shomer emunim' but 'she'omrim amen' [that say, amen]. What does 'amen' mean? — Said R. Hanina: God, faithful King.17

Rab Judah son of R. Samuel said in Rab's name: An [outbreak of] fire occurs only in a place where there is desecration of the Sabbath, for it is said, But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day and not to bear a burden … then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.18  What does 'and it shall not be quenched' mean? — Said R. Nahman b. Isaac: At the time when no people are available to quench it.

Abaye said: Jerusalem was destroyed only because the Sabbath was desecrated therein, as it is said, and they have hid their eyes from My sabbaths, therefore I am profaned among them.19

It seems that the Rabbi was correct in saying that fire comes when the Sabbath is desecrated. I do not profess to know the ways that Hashem works, but I do believe that the Chazal and the Rabbis of the Talmud knew what they were talking about...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Well then why not say, they have to hunt down and kill the Arabs that did this?

Where's the contradiction?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I hear what he's saying. Everything comes from Hashem.

But this happened also to a religious kibbutz!   

to Communist Capitalists? 

Oh so all kibbutznikim are evil even if they have are chozer b'teshuvah.  ron it seems like you label every single group as evil except yourself!

Moreover, it's besides the point.   The only relevant point here is if they are shomer shabbat or not.   There certainly do exist shomer shabbat kibbutznikim.   And  A7 described this place as religious kibbutz.  They wouldn't call it that if they weren't shomer shabbat.   So this wacked out "THEORY" is clearly WRONG since the fire also happened to people who DO NOT desecrate shabbat.

of course we also know that druze are not obligated in shabbat laws, but that brings us to the obvious problem with this so-called Theory - we know the ACTUAL reason this started, because of terrorist druze who set the freaking fires!   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

btw, guess which minister was in charge of Israel's firefighting services and resources?   

Wait for it...

Yup, you guessed it -
Minister of Interior ELI YISHAI lead politician of $ha$




Could there possibly have been an agenda behind this so-called theory?   Oh gee, I just don't know...

[mord]

This isn't Yishai fault he asked for more money for  fire fighting but they only gave him a pittance.In any event this problem goes back 20 yrs

[wonga66]

What are you implying by the skull on your avatar having peyos above Islamic scimitars, Ronald?

See, you can't read Hebrew 

Of course I can read Hebrew, "Hill Top Youth" -luvva.

But what does your ominous Totenkopf avatar actually mean?



The Death's Head symbology is generally used by murderous goyim, like pirates, the SS and the Light Brigade, & is very unheimish, Ronald!

[The One and Only Mo]

I hear what he's saying. Everything comes from Hashem.

But this happened also to a religious kibbutz!   

to Communist Capitalists? 

Oh so all kibbutznikim are evil even if they have are chozer b'teshuvah.  ron it seems like you label every single group as evil except yourself!

Moreover, it's besides the point.   The only relevant point here is if they are shomer shabbat or not.   There certainly do exist shomer shabbat kibbutznikim.   And  A7 described this place as religious kibbutz.  They wouldn't call it that if they weren't shomer shabbat.   So this wacked out "THEORY" is clearly WRONG since the fire also happened to people who DO NOT desecrate shabbat.

of course we also know that druze are not obligated in shabbat laws, but that brings us to the obvious problem with this so-called Theory - we know the ACTUAL reason this started, because of terrorist druze who set the freaking fires!   

We will never know the reason... Only Hashem knows....EVERYTHING comes from Hashem....There is no sense in trying to figure out the reason for this.....

[edu]

My biggest problem with the viewpoint that blames the current Israeli fire on Sabbath desecration is that one should only look for supernatural explanations, when no logical natural explanation, exists that can easily explain the tragedy.
In this case, when we have evil Gentiles in the land of Israel, who the Torah commands us to expel and they are actively involved in arson and terrorism on a continuing basis while the government of Israel including Rabbi Ovadia Yosef usually ignores this biblical commandment; it is no wonder, that from time to time, these evil Gentiles will succeed in causing great damage.
And I should add that not only Gentiles who actively commit terror are considered evil, but also those that are merely happy about the Terror that others commit against Jews, or support theft, idol worship, immorality, attacks against Judaism etc.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I hear what he's saying. Everything comes from Hashem.

But this happened also to a religious kibbutz!   

to Communist Capitalists? 

Oh so all kibbutznikim are evil even if they have are chozer b'teshuvah.  ron it seems like you label every single group as evil except yourself!

Moreover, it's besides the point.   The only relevant point here is if they are shomer shabbat or not.   There certainly do exist shomer shabbat kibbutznikim.   And  A7 described this place as religious kibbutz.  They wouldn't call it that if they weren't shomer shabbat.   So this wacked out "THEORY" is clearly WRONG since the fire also happened to people who DO NOT desecrate shabbat.

of course we also know that druze are not obligated in shabbat laws, but that brings us to the obvious problem with this so-called Theory - we know the ACTUAL reason this started, because of terrorist druze who set the freaking fires!   

We will never know the reason... Only Hashem knows....EVERYTHING comes from Hashem....There is no sense in trying to figure out the reason for this.....

When terrorists light a fire and try to burn down the country, how is there any question as to the reason it happened?

It's not like some easterly wind came and started a fire.

Terrorists tried to burn the country down.   That is the reason.   Where is the mystery here?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

My biggest problem with the viewpoint that blames the current Israeli fire on Sabbath desecration is that one should only look for supernatural explanations, when no logical natural explanation, exists that can easily explain the tragedy.
In this case, when we have evil Gentiles in the land of Israel, who the Torah commands us to expel and they are actively involved in arson and terrorism on a continuing basis while the government of Israel including Rabbi Ovadia Yosef usually ignores this biblical commandment; it is no wonder, that from time to time, these evil Gentiles will succeed in causing great damage.
And I should add that not only Gentiles who actively commit terror are considered evil, but also those that are merely happy about the Terror that others commit against Jews, or support theft, idol worship, immorality, attacks against Judaism etc.

Agree.  Good point.