Author Topic: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?  (Read 16870 times)

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Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Is there halakcha on this?  I don't want to rain on anyone's parade who I meet during the day, this is a very happy time of year for a lot of people [none of which I wish to make an enemy out of!].  Before being religious I did not care, now I just wonder what the halakcha is.
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Offline muman613

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 01:01:09 AM »
I do not know of any Halacha concerning it, but I will research it...

Lately, this year, nobody has wished me a Merry Christmas because I obviously dress and act so Jewish. One of my doctors was nice enough to even wish me a Happy Chanukah {he was the ONLY person to wish me anything on the Holidays}.

I am not one to greet others with Holiday wishes so I do not judge others if they don't wish me. In one case the lady at the Oil Change place I go to was saying Merry Christmas to everyone in the room when their car was done... When my time came she wished me a Happy Holiday which I considered very considerate of her.

Generally I think it is OK to acknowledge that it is a special time for Christians. If they are not trying to impress or persuade a Jew to join in any religious observance then I think it is OK to act graciously and greet them.

Today was the Holiday Party at work... And last week they gave everyone the Holiday gift... I did not participate very much, ate only the fruits and salads, but it was nice...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 01:05:08 AM »

http://www.torahinmotion.org/articles_dvarim/bus_ethics/holidayGreetings.htm

CASE STUDIES IN BUSINESS ETHICS
Rabbi Jay Kelman CA
Holiday Greetings


The Gap Inc. (annual sales $14 Billion) has advised its employees to wish customers Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas representing the latest in a trend to "secularize" Christmas. How should Jewish employers, employees and neighbours deal with the holiday season?

The abhorrence of Judaism for idolatry is such that Jewish law prohibits even the mentioning the name of an idol. Monotheism is so central to world order that even non- Jews are proscribed from engaging in idolatrous practices. Thus Jewish law has codified a series of laws that forbid "strengthening the hands of idolaters". Restrictions are placed on commercial activities with those for whom there is reason to fear that said profits will be used for idolatrous practices. And while many authorities assume that for non-Jews Christianity is not to be deemed idolatrous, there is no doubt that a Jew must (as unfortunately so many have over the years) forfeit one's life rather than convert to Christianity.

Our abhorrence of idolatry is manifest only in terms of religious ideology and at times commercial practice. In the area of personal interaction, Jews are obligated to treat all of humanity - notwithstanding any practices that may be repugnant - with dignity, honesty and respect. Thus the Talmud praises Rav Yochanan ben Zachai - the Rabbinic leader who literally saved Judaism during the Roman conquest of Jerusalem - for his practice of eagerly greeting the s of his days. Furthermore Jewish law states that one must feed the hungry, visit the sick and bury the dead of such idolaters. All of humanity is created in the image of G-d and are thus worthy of being treated in a dignified matter regardless of ones' belief system. Furthermore we must avoid any practice that may cause friction with our fellow citizens. And this would include not "celebrating" the festivals with our non-Jewish neighbours. Rav Moshe Isserles in his glosses to the the Shulchan Aruch (standard code of Jewish law written in the 16th century by Rav Yosef Karo, a victim of the Spanish expulsion) rules that if non-Jews are celebrating even a religious festival, Jews must join in the celebrations lest tension be created. It seems obvious that participation in the office holiday party - which today has little if any religious flavour to say the least - is a must for the modern day employee. Similarly the Shulchan Aruch permits (encourages?) the sending of gifts to non Jewish acquaintances during their festival season. Such displays of friendship strengthen the social standing of the Jew vis a vis the non Jew something of great import when living in exile. We are even allowed to wish our non Jewish brethren well as they celebrate their religious festivals. Blessings such as may G-d bless you are specifically mentioned as appropriate, knowing full well that the non-jew interpretation of god certainly differs from ours.

However invoking Merry Christmas may be a different matter, one that is dependant on the meaning and usage of the word Christmas. Halacha permits invoking the names of festivals of other religions provided that the name of a foreign deity is not mentioned. Thus it would be permissible to say happy easter or happy new year. Assuming that Christ is the name of a deity then its mention would proscribed by Jewish law. However the term Christ actually derives from the Greek Christos, meaning anointed one or messiah. Thus strictly speaking it usage should be permitted and perhaps at times even encouraged, such as when interacting with observant Catholics if failure to do so would create conflict.

Of course it is most natural considering the historical interaction between Jews and Christians, that for many Jews saying such words are extremely difficult and painful. A neutral expression such as season's greetings or happy holidays, especially in our multi cultural society would thus be appropriate in most circumstances. Of course there is no reason why Christians should not greet their co-religionists using Merry Christmas.

While acknowledging Christmas vis a vis our neighbours is most appropriate such is not the case when dealing amongst ourselves. In a somewhat cryptic response Rav Moshe Feinstein rules that one should not make a simcha on a non Jewish festival unless it is an obligatory feast such as a brit milah or pidyon haben. May we merit the day "when the earth will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the water covers the sea" (Isiah 11:9).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline White Israelite

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 01:45:14 AM »
I just say happy holidays.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 02:25:43 AM »
I obviously dress and act so Jewish.
What do you mean by this and what makes it obvious? Are you saying you dress and "act" more Jewish than other Jewish forum members? Also, I really don't understand what "acting Jewish" is. How in daily public life do Jews behave differently than Gentiles? The only time that I hear about "Jewish behavior" as distinct from Gentile is when the dead, rotting horse of old anti-Semitic stereotypes gets beaten.

Quote
I am not one to greet others with Holiday wishes
Why not--is there halacha against such? Do you even mean you don't say "Chag Sameach" to other Jews?

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Generally I think it is OK to acknowledge that it is a special time for Christians.

"Generally"? When would it not be?

Offline muman613

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 02:32:40 AM »
I obviously dress and act so Jewish.
What do you mean by this and what makes it obvious? Are you saying you dress and "act" more Jewish than other Jewish forum members? Also, I really don't understand what "acting Jewish" is. How in daily public life do Jews behave differently than Gentiles? The only time that I hear about "Jewish behavior" as distinct from Gentile is when the dead, rotting horse of old anti-Semitic stereotypes gets beaten.

Quote
I am not one to greet others with Holiday wishes
Why not--is there halacha against such? Do you even mean you don't say "Chag Sameach" to other Jews?

Quote
Generally I think it is OK to acknowledge that it is a special time for Christians.

"Generally"? When would it not be?

I am a religious Jew... I wear a Kippah, I wear Tzit-Tzits, I have a beard and I have grown my side-curls long. These are very clear signs of Jewish observance...

This is what I mean that I dress and act Jewish. I keep kosher at work as best I can {and it is very difficult at times}... Because of these things which a religious Jew does I believe that people know to wish me Happy Holiday instead of saying Merry Christmas, which is fine with me.

Regarding saying Chag Samaech I always say it to everyone in my minyan on the Holidays, and also the greeting Good Shabbos and Shabbat Shalom I say on Shabbat... But I do not, during the Christmas season, initiate the greeting, usually I reply to their greeting...

Regarding the question about the Halacha, I believe I just posted a post by a Rabbi which discusses the Halachic reasoning. I believe my practice is within halacha...


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 03:04:21 AM »
Muman, thanks for the info.  It seems a good train of thought.

---

DBF/Muman... as a Jew whose personal dress code includes wearing a kippah, sometimes people in the street do mistake me for the Christian Pope [or a Cardinal], but most of the time people recognize me as a Jew.

"You must keep the arab under your boot or he will be at your throat" -Unknown

"When we tell the Arab, ‘Come, I want to help you and see to your needs,’ he doesn’t look at us like gentlemen. He sees weakness and then the wolf shows what he can do.” - Maimonides

 “I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war.” -Psalms 120:7

"The difference between a Jewish liberal and a Jewish conservative is that when a Jewish liberal walks out of the Holocaust Museum, he feels, "This shows why we need to have more tolerance and multiculturalism." The Jewish conservative feels, "We should have killed a lot more Nazis, and sooner."" - Philip Klein

Offline cjd

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 06:40:30 AM »

http://www.torahinmotion.org/articles_dvarim/bus_ethics/holidayGreetings.htm

CASE STUDIES IN BUSINESS ETHICS
Rabbi Jay Kelman CA
Holiday Greetings


The Gap Inc. (annual sales $14 Billion) has advised its employees to wish customers Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas representing the latest in a trend to "secularize" Christmas. How should Jewish employers, employees and neighbours deal with the holiday season?

The abhorrence of Judaism for idolatry is such that Jewish law prohibits even the mentioning the name of an idol. Monotheism is so central to world order that even non- Jews are proscribed from engaging in idolatrous practices. Thus Jewish law has codified a series of laws that forbid "strengthening the hands of idolaters". Restrictions are placed on commercial activities with those for whom there is reason to fear that said profits will be used for idolatrous practices. And while many authorities assume that for non-Jews Christianity is not to be deemed idolatrous, there is no doubt that a Jew must (as unfortunately so many have over the years) forfeit one's life rather than convert to Christianity.

Our abhorrence of idolatry is manifest only in terms of religious ideology and at times commercial practice. In the area of personal interaction, Jews are obligated to treat all of humanity - notwithstanding any practices that may be repugnant - with dignity, honesty and respect. Thus the Talmud praises Rav Yochanan ben Zachai - the Rabbinic leader who literally saved Judaism during the Roman conquest of Jerusalem - for his practice of eagerly greeting the s of his days. Furthermore Jewish law states that one must feed the hungry, visit the sick and bury the dead of such idolaters. All of humanity is created in the image of G-d and are thus worthy of being treated in a dignified matter regardless of ones' belief system. Furthermore we must avoid any practice that may cause friction with our fellow citizens. And this would include not "celebrating" the festivals with our non-Jewish neighbours. Rav Moshe Isserles in his glosses to the the Shulchan Aruch (standard code of Jewish law written in the 16th century by Rav Yosef Karo, a victim of the Spanish expulsion) rules that if non-Jews are celebrating even a religious festival, Jews must join in the celebrations lest tension be created. It seems obvious that participation in the office holiday party - which today has little if any religious flavour to say the least - is a must for the modern day employee. Similarly the Shulchan Aruch permits (encourages?) the sending of gifts to non Jewish acquaintances during their festival season. Such displays of friendship strengthen the social standing of the Jew vis a vis the non Jew something of great import when living in exile. We are even allowed to wish our non Jewish brethren well as they celebrate their religious festivals. Blessings such as may G-d bless you are specifically mentioned as appropriate, knowing full well that the non-jew interpretation of G-d certainly differs from ours.

However invoking Merry Christmas may be a different matter, one that is dependant on the meaning and usage of the word Christmas. Halacha permits invoking the names of festivals of other religions provided that the name of a foreign deity is not mentioned. Thus it would be permissible to say happy easter or happy new year. Assuming that Christ is the name of a deity then its mention would proscribed by Jewish law. However the term Christ actually derives from the Greek Christos, meaning anointed one or messiah. Thus strictly speaking it usage should be permitted and perhaps at times even encouraged, such as when interacting with observant Catholics if failure to do so would create conflict.

Of course it is most natural considering the historical interaction between Jews and Christians, that for many Jews saying such words are extremely difficult and painful. A neutral expression such as season's greetings or happy holidays, especially in our multi cultural society would thus be appropriate in most circumstances. Of course there is no reason why Christians should not greet their co-religionists using Merry Christmas.

While acknowledging Christmas vis a vis our neighbours is most appropriate such is not the case when dealing amongst ourselves. In a somewhat cryptic response Rav Moshe Feinstein rules that one should not make a simcha on a non Jewish festival unless it is an obligatory feast such as a brit milah or pidyon haben. May we merit the day "when the earth will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the water covers the sea" (Isiah 11:9).
Rabbi  Kelman is a funny man.... I guess this article is intended for Jewish readers only... It seems that the Rabbi feels anything other then what he is selling is nothing more then idol worship.
Quote
The abhorrence of Judaism for idolatry is such that Jewish law prohibits even the mentioning the name of an idol. Monotheism is so central to world order that even non- Jews are proscribed from engaging in idolatrous practices. Thus Jewish law has codified a series of laws that forbid "strengthening the hands of idolaters". Restrictions are placed on commercial activities with those for whom there is reason to fear that said profits will be used for idolatrous practices. And while many authorities assume that for non-Jews Christianity is not to be deemed idolatrous, there is no doubt that a Jew must (as unfortunately so many have over the years) forfeit one's life rather than convert to Christianity.
Like most of this clip and post boilerplate text it over complicates the situation... In the New York I grew up in we did not have this problem... A simple Happy Holidays or a "Have a Happy" was and is still is enough of a holiday greeting...For me what people choose to worship is none of my business... A simple holiday greeting as I described is nothing more then common courtesy... In most cases I allow the people I come in contact with to initiate most holiday greetings...
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Offline cjd

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 06:49:27 AM »
Muman, thanks for the info.  It seems a good train of thought.

---

DBF/Muman... as a Jew whose personal dress code includes wearing a kippah, sometimes people in the street do mistake me for the Christian Pope [or a Cardinal], but most of the time people recognize me as a Jew.


Thank G-d I grew up in good old New York City... Most of us here can tell a Cardinal from a Jew wearing a kippah a half block away :::D  And if the Pope is walking around the streets of New York among the general public that opens an entire new can of worms  ;D...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 07:09:32 AM by cjd »
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Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 07:25:38 AM »
I wish everyone happy kwanzaa
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Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 07:40:59 AM »
I simply answer "Thank you" !

Offline cjd

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 07:42:00 AM »
I wish everyone happy kwanzaa
Now this is an outrage... >:( I hope this is not an attempt to lure me into the black experience.... :::D  Just kidding Dr.Dan... Happy kwanzaa to you too. :laugh:
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Offline Mishmaat

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 08:04:29 AM »

Offline Rubystars

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 08:23:34 AM »
Sometimes when I was a cashier I used to tell Muslims Merry Christmas on purpose. They probably thought I was just being dense, but I got a kick out of it.

Offline takebackourtemple

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 08:25:21 AM »
Sometimes when I was a cashier I used to tell Muslims Merry Christmas on purpose. They probably thought I was just being dense, but I got a kick out of it.
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Offline takebackourtemple

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 08:26:17 AM »
The more serious question is when it is a Jew who has intermarried and no longer practices the faith. That is what I ran into last night.
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Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 09:38:34 AM »
Sometimes when I was a cashier I used to tell Muslims Merry Christmas on purpose. They probably thought I was just being dense, but I got a kick out of it.

Great, making fun of them is healthy !

Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2010, 10:27:13 AM »

Happy ramadan.
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Offline Boyana

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 10:36:37 AM »
Thank you, but I don't celebrate Christmas. Let me wish you the best on your holiday.

Offline syyuge

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2010, 10:44:08 AM »
Muslamics are not supposed to be appalled by the mention or greeting of Christ or Christmas.
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Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 12:17:52 PM »
I lived in a small town for awhile where there was a very small Jewish community.  I worked with a bunch of women most of whom were very religious Christians.  They were not sure whether to invite me to their Christmas Party.  Finally they asked if I would be able to go.  I said sure, but I would not take part in any religious activity if there was any (there was none).  They also asked why Jews did not believe in Jesus.  I tried to explain that Jews have a long history of false Messiahs and that most Jews viewed Jesus as just anothe one.
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Offline New Yorker

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2010, 01:14:48 PM »
I say Merry Christmas back, I wish my gentile friends a Merry Christmas, I hope their holiday is a happy one, you can say that, it doesn't convert you to Christianity to utter the words. For example, if on your birthday I wished you a Happy Birthday, it doesn't mean I am celebrating my birthday.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 02:03:06 PM by New Yorker »
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2010, 02:24:23 PM »
I happen to agree with cjd in that the article in question barely touches upon the actual issue in question.  He brings a lot of (barely) tangentially related information, but the simple question is, what does the halacha say about that particular greeting?    Even when he cites Rabbi Feinstein, it's a halacha which has nothing to do with the question!   

In any case, I think it's preferred not to say "christmas" (and rather to say happy holidays instead) but at the same time there are exceptional circumstances depending on the situation - you should ask your rav.   I once asked a shaila about this but it was slightly different circumstances, so I don't want to apply the psak generally here.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2010, 02:25:50 PM »
The more serious question is when it is a Jew who has intermarried and no longer practices the faith. That is what I ran into last night.

lol, in that case, not only do you say happy hanuka in response but you give them a lecture too!   

Not saying that's the halacha, but I would do that.    I would say "what do you mean merry christmas, you're Jewish!"

Offline muman613

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Re: When someone says "Merry Christmas" to a Jew, what does a Jew say back?
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2010, 02:41:09 PM »
I happen to agree with cjd in that the article in question barely touches upon the actual issue in question.  He brings a lot of (barely) tangentially related information, but the simple question is, what does the halacha say about that particular greeting?    Even when he cites Rabbi Feinstein, it's a halacha which has nothing to do with the question!   

In any case, I think it's preferred not to say "christmas" (and rather to say happy holidays instead) but at the same time there are exceptional circumstances depending on the situation - you should ask your rav.   I once asked a shaila about this but it was slightly different circumstances, so I don't want to apply the psak generally here.

What the Rabbi in the article I posted said makes complete sense to me. The halacha appears to be the same as for Thanksgiving {which is the case I believe that Rabbi Moshe Feinstein was answering}.... Jews in the diaspora should return this Holiday greeting in order to maintain peace between the Jews and the gentiles. That is what I understand the Halacha is..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14