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What is Chassidism?

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Christian Zionist:

--- Quote from: muman613 on March 20, 2011, 01:26:18 AM ---Its very presumptuous of you to tell Jews how to observe Commandments, isn't it... You are not Jewish and you know nothing about what it means to obey the 613 commandments. You have boldly condemned a complete strain of Judaism without even knowing what you are saying. I strongly disagree with you and I know many very Zionistic Chassids.

PS: If I were to suggest how Christians should behave concerning their religion I would be chastised by so many here.

Also why do you quote one of the most evil kings in Israel. Ahab and Jezebel established Idol worship in the land. He was a wicked man whose entire family was destroyed because of his wicked designs...


--- End quote ---


It is not about telling Jews how to observe the 613 commandments. That is not my responsibility to tell members of another religion how to observe their religion.   It is about Zionism.  My question is about the lack of action from the Chassidim to prevent withdrawal from the restored territories.

The reason I brought Ahab was, inspite of his wickedness he still wanted to retake the terriories from Syria.  He was a Zionist, at least having a nationalistic spirit.   What we see today is totally different.  In modern Israel Leftists who practice wickedness and even many in the
ultra orthodox community are not concerned about reclaiming the lost territories.  I am not commending Ahab but wondering even such a wicked person like Ahab was unwilling to give up territories to Israel's enemies, how much more should be expected out of G-d fearing Ultra Orthodox community.

The Torah gives the foundation of Zionism and the rest of the Tanak deals with Israel as a nation, a spiritual entity.  In the Christian community I cannot call a Christian who does not believe in Zionism as loyal to the Bible.

muman613:

--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on March 21, 2011, 12:04:30 AM ---
It is not about telling Jews how to observe the 613 commandments. That is not my responsibility to tell members of another religion how to observe their religion.   It is about Zionism.  My question is about the lack of action from the Chassidim to prevent withdrawal from the restored territories.

The reason I brought Ahab was, inspite of his wickedness he still wanted to retake the terriories from Syria.  He was a Zionist, at least having a nationalistic spirit.   What we see today is totally different.  In modern Israel Leftists who practice wickedness and even many in the
ultra orthodox community are not concerned about reclaiming the lost territories.  I am not commending Ahab but wondering even such a wicked person like Ahab was unwilling to give up territories to Israel's enemies, how much more should be expected out of G-d fearing Ultra Orthodox community.

The Torah gives the foundation of Zionism and the rest of the Tanach deals with Israel as a nation, a spiritual entity.  In the Christian community I cannot call a Christian who does not believe in Zionism as loyal to the Bible.

--- End quote ---

You realize that my complaint against your post was primary because you do not really understand Chassidus, and as a result you broadly paint all with the same brush as the NK which, as KWRBT pointed out, is not a Chassidic branch of Judaism. Even the most non-Zionist Chassidic group would never conspire with enemies of the Jewish people. As I said all Chassidus envisions the entire Jewish nation in Zion.

I would also like to bring up the issue of the three oaths, which I talked about in a previous thread in this section when I discussed the topic of Judea and Samaria with a special Rabbi at a Shabbaton I attended recently. The Talmud records these three oaths which Israel, Hashem, and the nations agreed to after the second and current exile... The primary stumbling block to several non-Zionistic Jews is these three oaths. The Rabbi whom I was talking to explained that the nations have violated their oath and therefore the entire agreement is anulled. But this is only the opinion of some Rabbis, and I am not sure if it is the mainstream Orthodox viewpoint.

See :  http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,53734.msg498492.html#msg498492

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