Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
What is Chassidism?
muman613:
Here is a good discussion of how the position of some Chassidic groups changed after the establishment of the state:
http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/shoah/09a-shoah.htm
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D. Building up Eretz Yisrael and the Rebbe's attitude towards the State
The following are various aspects of the activities and leadership of the Rebbe of Sanz-Klausenburg that testify to his positive attitude towards the State:
a. The choice of Eretz Yisrael as the center for his Chassidic court: The activity of the Rebbe of Sanz-Klausenburg after the Holocaust proves that he viewed the establishment of his Chassidut in Eretz Yisrael as a central objective of his role as leader and rehabilitator of the ruins. Unquestionably, this reflected more than just a realistic assessment of the conditions in Eretz Yisrael as being conducive to the establishment of his court; after all, he was well acquainted with – and even brought to fruition – the American alternative, which continues to exist. The decision to make the center of his Chassidut in Eretz Yisrael was made at a time when the foundations of his court in the US were already stable. His announcement, upon leaving the DP camps in Germany for New York – "I am going to Eretz Yisrael via America"[17] – was meant in the practical and literal sense.
b. Activity on behalf of all Jews, not only the Chassidic community: The extensive, "all-inclusive" scope of the establishment of his court and its institutions proves that his intention was to integrate into the reality of Eretz Yisrael as it was and to contribute towards it – whether through institutions for Torah, charity, or volunteering, or through establishing a hospital in Netanya (Laniado) to serve all Israelis, and not only the Chassidic community.
c. The choice of the Netanya coast as the location for the center of his Chassidut: in continuation of point b., the choice of Netanya, and specifically the sea shore, was important. The choice of this large, secular city and a location on the coast rather than an existing ultra-orthodox center such as Benei Berak or Jerusalem proves that the Rebbe did not perceive his settling in Israel as "Jewish exile within Eretz Yisrael,"[18] but rather as a permanent settling with a self-awareness of belonging to the State and to the general population, despite its secular character.[19]
d. Dialogue with the leaders of the State: The Rebbe of Sanz-Klausenburg maintained ongoing dialogue with the leaders of the State and its institutions, and he had expectations of them both on the practical level (such as approving the establishment of the hospital or the Chassidic center) and in the cultural, spiritual realm. There were times when he was sorely disappointed, and even left the country as a result.[20] However, those very expectations show that he did not relate to the State as a merely material or economic framework, but rather as an entity with inherent significance. In this context, we should also take note of the harsh attacks that he suffered from his conservative-minded Chassidic opponents as a result of this attitude. In 5721, an ultra-orthodox newspaper published a picture of his meeting with David Ben-Gurion, and stated that the meeting had centered on the establishment of a State-religious educational network for Sanz. The picture was accompanied by harsh words against the Rebbe: he is referred to as a "Johnny Come Lately" (he had arrived in the country a year previously), and accused of attempting to create "shaatnez" between two "opposing forces" – Chassidism and Zionism.[21]
All of the above shows that the Rebbe, for the most part, maintained a positive dialogue with the State and its institutions, and that he viewed settlement in the land in the national sense as a true value, and not just as a personal commandment, as many of the founding fathers of Chassidut in previous generations had maintained. In our next lecture, we will examine the ideological basis for this view.
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Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on March 14, 2011, 07:58:05 PM ---Muman,
How many of these Chassidic branches are pro-Zionist? I know Satmar is against Zionism and heard that the Lubavitcher movement is formerly anti-Zionist but the Rebbe Menachem Mendel Sneershen changed it to a Zionist movement?
Are Ger, Belz, Breslov, Vizhnitz, Seret-Vizhnitz, Nadvorna, and Toldos Aharon, Zionist?
What about that Neturei Karta group? Are they Chassidim too?
CZ
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Naturei karta are actually not chassidic, but they do dress like chassidim and wear the same hair style. Why, I don't know.
Many of those other sects are indeed anti-zionist, or non-zionist. But Breslov is quite zionist.
Christian Zionist:
--- Quote from: muman613 on March 14, 2011, 08:37:15 PM ---Remember that all Chassidus believes that Jews should be in Israel. The problem they have is with the secular state of Israel. Some of us here are beginning to get very unhappy with the current state of the state of Israel also. What is needed is for a strong Jew who knows what it means to be Jewish to get control in Israel. Until then the religious Jews in the state will continue to be used as cannon fodder by the secular israelis.
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But the existence of the nation of Israel is the first step...
If all Chassidim believe that all Jews should be in Israel, why they did not show up in large numbers to block the expulsion of Jews from Gaza and other places? I have serious doubts over their loyalty to the Torah and their lack of action when the government expelled Jews from the restored territories.
In the Tanak even that evil King Ahab who destroyed the ancient Judaism in the northern kingdom wanted to retake Ramoth-Gilead from the Syrians.
1 King 22:3
And the king of Israel said to his servants, “Do you know that Ramoth-gilead belongs to us, and we keep quiet and do not take it out of the hand of the king of Syria?”
muman613:
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on March 18, 2011, 08:09:18 PM ---But the existence of the nation of Israel is the first step...
If all Chassidim believe that all Jews should be in Israel, why they did not show up in large numbers to block the expulsion of Jews from Gaza and other places? I have serious doubts over their loyalty to the Torah and their lack of action when the government expelled Jews from the restored territories.
In the Tanach even that evil King Ahab who destroyed the ancient Judaism in the northern kingdom wanted to retake Ramoth-Gilead from the Syrians.
1 King 22:3
And the king of Israel said to his servants, “Do you know that Ramoth-gilead belongs to us, and we keep quiet and do not take it out of the hand of the king of Syria?”
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Its very presumptuous of you to tell Jews how to observe Commandments, isn't it... You are not Jewish and you know nothing about what it means to obey the 613 commandments. You have boldly condemned a complete strain of Judaism without even knowing what you are saying. I strongly disagree with you and I know many very Zionistic Chassids.
PS: If I were to suggest how Christians should behave concerning their religion I would be chastised by so many here.
Also why do you quote one of the most evil kings in Israel. Ahab and Jezebel established Idol worship in the land. He was a wicked man whose entire family was destroyed because of his wicked designs...
--- Quote ---King Ahab of Israel: Son of King Omri. Reigned from 740-720 BCE. Influenced by his nefarious Zidonite wife Jezebel, Ahab encouraged idol worship in his domain and persecuted the true prophets of G-d. Disregarding Joshua’s ban, he rebuilt the city of Jericho, for which he was admonished by Elijah the prophet and punished with a three-year drought. King Ben-Hadad of Aram twice attacked Israel, with an army much stronger than the Israelites’, yet Ahab miraculously defeated Ben-Hadad and forced him to return the Israelite territory which his father had conquered. When Ben-Hadad refused to give back the city of Ramoth-Gilead, Ahab joined forces with King Jehoshaphat of Judah to force the Aramites’ compliance. Ahab was killed in battle and succeeded by his son, Ahaziah. For his many sins and his cooperation with his wife’s depraved schemes, his entire household was ultimately destroyed, as Elijah prophesied.
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muman613:
Just for your reference, here is a portion of the Amidah prayer which all Orthodox strains of Judaism recite, as formulated by the Men of the Great Assembly ( http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/591,539/Who-were-the-Anshei-Knesset-Hagedolah-Men-of-the-Great-Assembly.html ) , the Gedolim who put together our prayer books...
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/867674/jewish/Translation.htm
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May Your mercies be aroused, L-rd our G‑d, upon the righteous, upon the pious, upon the elders of Your people, the House of Israel, upon the remnant of their sages, upon the righteous proselytes and upon us. Grant ample reward to all who truly trust in Your Name, and place our lot among them; may we never be disgraced, for we have put our trust in You. Blessed are You L-rd, the support and security of the righteous.
Return in mercy to Jerusalem Your city and dwell therein as You have promised; speedily establish therein the throne of David Your servant, and rebuild it, soon in our days, as an everlasting edifice. Blessed are You L-rd, who rebuilds Jerusalem. Speedily cause the scion of David Your servant to flourish, and increase his power by Your salvation, for we hope for Your salvation all day. Blessed are You L-rd, who causes the power of salvation to flourish.
Hear our voice, L-rd our G‑d; merciful Father, have compassion upon us and accept our prayers in mercy and favor, for You are G‑d who hears prayers and supplications; do not turn us away empty-handed from You, our King, for You hear the prayer of everyone. Blessed are You L-rd, who hears prayer.
Look with favor, L-rd our G‑d, on Your people Israel and pay heed to their prayer; restore the service to Your Sanctuary and accept with love and favor Israel's fire-offerings and prayer; and may the service of Your people Israel always find favor.
May our eyes behold Your return to Zion in mercy. Blessed are You L-rd, who restores His Divine Presence to Zion.
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