Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
does the Tanakh explicitly talk about drugs?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 22, 2011, 05:59:47 PM ---I know it is the common sense of man that it is bad to do harm to himself and to kill himself. Though I don't believe that in any circumstance, a man that suicides is to be condemned by G-d afterwards (by being destroyed, going to hell, whatever).
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I agree, and this issue is debated among the great rabbis. There are sources which say you cannot judge such a person, and there are also other sources which examine mitigating circumstances that can exist in a case like that.
--- Quote --- There are people whose lives are too horrible, and I'm sure that we are not much stronger than them to resist more than they do. So "common sense" tells me that we should not regard a man as worth being destroyed (after death) or burnt in hell because we never felt what he felt and never lived what he lived.
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But none of this has anything to do with what I was saying.
I'm not talking about some depressed guy who is abused and beaten, etc. I'm talking about "you and me" a person in a normal (so to speak) situation who wants to know what he should do. It IS common sense not to damage yourself. And even if that verse we looked at is NOT about physical health, I really don't think G-d needed to command it! It's one of those things that doesn't even need to be said - any person should understand implicitly that he has to preserve his health.
(Similarly, there are other commandments like this that are commanded even though they are common sense (ethical commonsense) - for instance, Do not murder. Do not steal. Rambam writes that one can arrive at all of the Noahide laws by deep philosophical thought, even though they are also commanded explicitly, they are the inherent morals that a person - if he is properly refined, educated, and of worthy character - should be able to arrive at through logic and philosophical investigation). I think this one is similar.
--- Quote ---About harming yourself... I really have doubts that G-d condemns a diabetes man for eating a cookie (i.e. he's had relish for cookies), though he is forbidden to. And if Pepsi would do some kind of harm, it's hard for me to believe that G-d would condemn a man for drinking Pepsi.
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I really have no idea what you are talking about.
--- Quote ---And if you support the idea of not doing anything that harms you, how can you prove the drinking of wine (i.e. alcohol) as ok?
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I think you need to read my post again because you are twisting what I said.
Also it sounds as if you imagine the only way we can be COMMANDED (that means obligated) to do something is if a person is perfect and can achieve it every single time always without fail. I don't think any person can be expected to do that, I don't think G-d expects that kind of perfection from people, AND YET, nonetheless, G-d commands the Jewish people and also the Gentile people with obligations which they must enact/perform in all sorts of areas.
If something is difficult G-d would never obligate an IDEAL as a standard we should strive for? I find that line of reasoning specious. In fact, it was an old missionary claim that they used to bash Judaism with. They would say, no person can possibly fulfill all the mitzvoth without fail, therefore (they claimed) they are abrogated because G-d found out that no man can fulfill them. That whole line of reasoning is a joke to any moderately Jewish ear. Especially for those myriads of traditional Jews who DID keep all the laws, observed the shabbat, the customs, etc even while this so-called argument was being spewed. It is possible to keep all the commandments one is obligated in. That doesn't mean a person will be perfect and never fail. But as a whole it is possible and that is precisely why G-d commanded them because He knows man capable of fulfilling them.
--- Quote --- And if the chemical ingredients of foods are unhealthy, does that mean that you are supposed to eat only natural foods? consider also that many cannot afford eating only natural foods.
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I think you are reading into my words something I haven't said.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 22, 2011, 05:25:32 PM ---You know, something sounds odd about your interpretation of Deut. 4.9 (i.e. about health): it's as if G-d sends a man (i.e. a prophet) in a place, and when that man steps out of his house, G-d tells him "take care!". I hope such a situation does sound odd to everybody. And I think the reason for that is that it's man's natural instinct to seek his welfare.
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What?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
And since you quite clearly did not read this from a comment above, I will quote myself again:
--- Quote from: KWRBT --- "The degree to which one damages himself by having one drink of pepsi is rather small - and its also a functional form of nutrition, not just a poision like a drug- so I don't think the idea that any drink of pepsi is a sin against G-d is a correct attitude to take. But if you imbibe tons of it in an overall process of letting yourself become unhealthy and living an unhealthy lifestyle where you have no concerns for such things - then that would be sinful."
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Maybe this will help clarify your seeming confusion about my comments.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Btw, one cup of wine is not unhealthy. The scientific journals say it's healthy to have one glass of red wine per night, in fact.
Where do you get the idea that one drink of wine is unhealthy? Unhealthy to what, exactly?
The liver is built to process a certain amount of alcohol in a certain period of time. It's when you imbibe more than this amount (or even having that small amount to frequently) that you are damaging yourself.
Zenith:
--- Quote from: muman613 on February 22, 2011, 07:13:22 PM ---Zenith,
All the Jewish faith says is to do things in moderation.
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Well, there should be something concrete to know if a particular thing is good or is evil. A religious man is usually trying not to do "bad" things, rather than saying to himself "oh, this is just a little one, so if I do it, it's no big deal." And if you ask a non-smoker, most surely he would agree that smoking is sin, while a smoker would say "smoking is ok, but getting drugs is very dangerous, so bad". Taking into consideration that moderation is very subjective, how do you deal with it?
--- Quote ---And if you believe, as Jews do, in the concept of reward and punishment {though it seems from your comments that you seriously doubt this}, then we are held accountable for every time we did something with the intention of damaging ourselves.
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I do believe in reward and punishment.
--- Quote ---The fact that we are not aware that certain things are killing us is not the point. The point is that if we do something which we know will have damaging consequences then we are commanded not to do it. That does not seem to hard understand to me.
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Then answer me this concrete question: If chemical ingredients of foods are unhealthy, do people sin against God if they eat them, knowing that they are unhealthy?
--- Quote ---PS: Another important concept of the Torah is Pikuei Nefesh {Saving Life}... This concept means that when there is a contradiction between carrying out Jewish law and living, living takes precedence every time. So saving life is the most important Mitzvah of them all...
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I suppose that idol worship is an exception to it.
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