Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
does the Tanakh explicitly talk about drugs?
Zenith:
--- Quote from: muman613 ---Things are no longer 'Black and White' and now we can only see things in 'Shades of grey'.
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You know, there are still things that must be regarded as "black and white". You know, in the Tanakh we see punishments for different sins, and offerings for sins (even unintentional sins). That makes me believe that the law issues must be "black or white". That is, if the Temple had not been destroyed, and if the Jews in Israel had been in peace, etc. should there be an offering for a breaking of the law not to harm yourself because a Jew ate an unhealthy food or not? Should there be an offering given because he's smoke or because he has sat among smokers while they were smoking, or not?
That is my point with "which exactly is it?". If it is still wrong to view the eating of unhealthy foods as either ok or sin, perhaps you now understand my view better and you can give additional explanations.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 05:40:43 PM ---You know, there are still things that must be regarded as "black and white". You know, in the Tanakh we see punishments for different sins, and offerings for sins (even unintentional sins). That makes me believe that the law issues must be "black or white". That is, if the Temple had not been destroyed, and if the Jews in Israel had been in peace, etc. should there be an offering for a breaking of the law not to harm yourself because a Jew ate an unhealthy food or not? Should there be an offering given because he's smoke or because he has sat among smokers while they were smoking, or not?
That is my point with "which exactly is it?". If it is still wrong to view the eating of unhealthy foods as either ok or sin, perhaps you now understand my view better and you can give additional explanations.
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Everything is judged and awarded merit or given punishment. The calculations are beyond the understanding of mankind. But we do know, through Torah, what is right and what is wrong.
A man should endeavor to do only good, but because there are challenges in life, he often goes astray. But there is the concept of Teshuva, which is known as repentence.... Every sin before G-d can only be forgiven by G-d, and every sin against man can only be forgiven by men. We go through this every year during the ten days of repentence between Rosh Hashanna and Yom Kippur {The day of atonement}.
I see no problem with the concept that a person does wrong, realizes that he is doing wrong, and modifies his behavior. We call this Mussar...
http://www.mussarinstitute.org/wisdom-way.htm
--- Quote ---WHAT IS MUSSAR?
Mussar is a path of contemplative practices and exercises that have evolved over the past thousand years to help an individual soul to pinpoint and then to break through the barriers that surround and obstruct the flow of inner light in our lives. Mussar is a treasury of techniques and understandings that offers immensely valuable guidance for the journey of our lives.
The Orthodox Jewish community spawned Mussar to help people overcome the inner obstacles that hinder them from living up to the laws and commandments—the mitzvot—that form the code of life. That community tends to see Mussar as inseparable from its own beliefs and practices, but the human reality Mussar addresses is actually universal, and the gifts it offers can be used by all people.
GOALS OF MUSSAR PRACTICE
The goal of Mussar practice is to release the light of holiness that lives within the soul. The roots of all of our thoughts and actions can be traced to the depths of the soul, beyond the reach of the light of consciousness, and so the methods Mussar provides include meditations, guided contemplations, exercises and chants that are all intended to penetrate down to the darkness of the subconscious, to bring about change right at the root of our nature.
From its origins in the 10th century, Mussar was a practice of the solitary seeker, until in the 19th century it became the basis for a popular social/spiritual movement originating in Lithuania, inspired by the leadership of Rabbi Israel Salanter.
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Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 03:31:08 PM ---Well, there should be something concrete to know if a particular thing is good or is evil.
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We do have something concrete, it's called the halacha. But you don't follow the halacha, so what do you want from us?
It's amazing how fast you switch your arguments in these discussions on the forum. First you complained to me, that I can't say that having pepsi is unhealthy and therefore damaging and wrong/sinful because no one can resist pepsi and how can God punish someone for having a pepsi, it's just one drink. Now all of a sudden you are saying that there has to be a concrete rule either way, either it's allowed or it's not. But if it's not allowed, then you're back to your previous argument. How can God forbid us to drink pepsi? You need to make up your mind if you really want to have a serious discussion or if you just want to promote something.
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I suppose that idol worship is an exception to it.
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It is of course, and Muman never said otherwise. Jews are required to give up their lives rather than worship an idol, engage in forbidden relations, or murder someone. Saving one's life takes precedence over all other mitzvot besides those 3.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 05:09:42 PM ---Quote from: Zenith
About harming yourself... I really have doubts that G-d condemns a diabetes man for eating a cookie (i.e. he's had relish for cookies), though he is forbidden to. And if Pepsi would do some kind of harm, it's hard for me to believe that G-d would condemn a man for drinking Pepsi.
quote from KWRBT: I really have no idea what you are talking about.
Quote from Zenith: I don't understand what is unclear to you.
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LOL, want to go around in circles much?
Of course everyone always thinks what they say is clear, but I'm informing you that I have no idea what you're talking about or how it relates to anything I said, so that leaves it up to you to make it clear or let it go. It sounds like maybe you are arguing with someone else, or someone else's argument. In that case, I really can't speak for someone else! I can only speak for my own thoughts and opinions.
--- Quote ---I don't understand what is unclear to you. It was about the idea that harming yourself is a sin against G-d. So literally, this would mean that a diabetes man would sin against G-d if he ate a cookie,
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You do know that people with diabetes still eat food right?
If having a cookie makes their condition worse and puts them in a serious danger, then yes they are doing something sinful. Any time someone puts his life in danger for no good reason it is indeed a sinful behavior! But I don't have diabetes and I don't know about the 'cookie' you are imagining so I don't know the exact situation. What's so hard to understand that harming yourself is bad? Yes, God wants us to be healthy, not just the health food store, the local gym, and the consumer protection agency. God also wants us to be healthy.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
Zenith, here is what you said:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 05:09:42 PM ---
about harming yourself... I really have doubts that G-d condemns a diabetes man for eating a cookie (i.e. he's had relish for cookies), though he is forbidden to. And if Pepsi would do some kind of harm, it's hard for me to believe that G-d would condemn a man for drinking Pepsi.
--- End quote ---
With this explanation:
--- Quote --- It was about the idea that harming yourself is a sin against G-d. So literally, this would mean that a diabetes man would sin against G-d if he ate a cookie, and if indeed Pepsi is unhealthy, anyone who drinks Pepsi knowing that it is unhealthy sins against G-d.
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Do you notice that you changed language completely?
First you said the idea that "God condemns a man for drinking Pepsi" is something you can't believe. What exactly do you mean by God condemning a man?
Then in the second formulation, you said that someone knowingly doing something unhealthy is sinning. Yeah, that's pretty much correct. But having a little pepsi is NOT the same as having a poison or a drug. I made that clear in a previous comment. So it's not the same degree! And there is a big difference between once in a while having a soda vs. completely disregarding one's health and the fact that it's not healthy, and having it all the time as a result of that attitude. The latter is certainly sinful. The former, no I don't think so. Having a drink or an unhealthy food every once in a while does not kill you or even sabotage your health. Having them all the time does.
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