Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
does the Tanakh explicitly talk about drugs?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 05:09:42 PM ---
There is a big difference between doing something wrong because of negligence (unintentionally) and doing it deliberately. The fact that no person is perfect means that he will inevitably do wrong, even if he struggles hard to do only good and not to do anything bad.
--- End quote ---
Yeah.
But the difference in Jewish thought may not be the same as what you are thinking.
From what I understand, "Deliberate" sin as it is referred to in the Torah makes a distinction between sinning due to negligence, (which can include falling to temptation) vs. sinning deliberately in order to make an affront to God. If someone does a sin because the temptation is too great, that's not making an affront against God. If chas veshalom someone says, I know this is forbidden by God, but I'm doing this to stick it to God and disobey his commands, that is what refers to deliberate sin.
--- Quote ---However, there are also people that say "no man is perfect" as a justification for something bad they are about to do.
--- End quote ---
Um, perhaps, but I don't say that, and that's not ok to do.
--- Quote --- And if offerings were needed for unintentional breaking of commandments, then what to say about deliberately doing something wrong?
--- End quote ---
It's quite clear that doing a deliberate sin is worse than doing an negligent sin. You almost imply like I'm disputing that, but we have that distinction in Jewish law, so I don't know what you're getting at.
--- Quote ---So this would mean that if it is indeed prohibited to harm yourself, then it is also strictly prohibited to eat unhealthy foods and drink unhealthy drinks, because you harm yourself by using them.
--- End quote ---
Um yeah, ok, but just like you understood there is a difference in degree in sin, so too there is a difference in degree in the concept of "unhealthy." You simply cannot equate taking a poison to having a donut. Sorry.
And while a person is supposed to eat healthy, that does not mean they can't have a snack every once in a while if the vast majority of their diet is healthier foods! So I think we disagree quite strongly on some of the definitions here.
But in general, yes, it is sinful to be unhealthy and part of being unhealthy is carelessly eating unhealthy foods.
Again, if a person disregards their health, they are sinning. If a person generally tries to maintain healthy habits, I do NOT think having a glass of pepsi once in a while is a sin especially when this person is careful that they are only having this infrequently because they know its not the healthiest drink.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 05:21:02 PM ---Maybe this will help clarify your seeming confusion about my comments.
I understand what you mean, but the problem is that nothing is exact. Should a man just decide for himself what is ok and what is sin, and expect to be judged by G-d according to his own beliefs?
--- End quote ---
But the knowledge about health is not exact! The whole concept is not something exact. There are healthier foods, and there are unhealthier foods. There are very nutritious foods, and there are really damaging foods with no nutritional value. And there are all sorts of degrees in between. And there are foods that if you have them once or twice or every once in a while, they won't appreciably damage your health, but if you have them every day and in large quantities then they will seriously damage your health.
So what does all of this mean? It means that yes indeed, a person is required to use his brain and his common sense (and maybe even get a nutritionist if they really care about this and don't know enough about it), and a person has to try his best to be healthy (and it's based on KNOWLEDGE, not beliefs). If you are not trying, you are sinning. If you are trying and making efforts to be healthy, that does NOT mean that you must always have the most pristine perfect food at every sitting or else you commit a sin if you don't. I really don't think that can be disputed. (So thus, I do not accept some of your premise).
(There is also no set definition on what is the perfect food - if there even exists such a thing - or what is the best diet - God put us in a complicated world and he expects us to try our best and develop our knowledge of Him and of what is good and bad and how to live according to his words).
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 05:23:19 PM ---doesn't the alcohol kill neurons? that's what I've heard.
--- End quote ---
Doesn't taking a shower kill skin cells?
.... Oops.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Zenith on February 23, 2011, 05:09:42 PM ---
Leaving out the fact that I don't believe that the laws are abrogated because nobody can fulfill them without fail, I don't understand what you blame that missionary of.
--- End quote ---
Oh, now you're defending missionaries?
::) ::) ::) ::)
--- Quote --- I mean, even if the myriads of traditional Jews DID keep all the laws at certain times/moments, the fact that they failed other times proves wrong the saying that "It is possible to keep all the commandments one is obligated in", because "It is possible to keep all the commandments one is obligated in" means, without failing.
--- End quote ---
NO, It DOESN'T MEAN WITHOUT EVER FAILING. That is your mistake and that is one of the missionary's distortions.
The missionaries tried to tell the Jews that even though God said "Do this," they missionaries have determined it's impossible to 'do this' every time without fail (and it's also impossible to do all of them - that's a separate complaint), therefore what God said about "doing this" is no longer in affect, since they decided that we can't possibly do it and you Jews can't possibly have allegiance to his laws because the laws were made impossible to keep. You silly Jews just haven't realized for thousands of years that trying to keep them is not what God intended when he told you to keep them!
This whole warped notion is not even worth addressing. God gave commandments to MAN. God knows that man is not perfect and God does not expect that man will be perfect. God still obligates us to try. But the missionaries want to tell us that God didn't realize who He was giving commandments to, but now the missionaries figured out what a human is and they are telling God about what a human is, and they are canceling God's law.
--- Quote ---this would mean that we must eat only natural foods.
--- End quote ---
What is a "natural food?"
And no, I do not agree.
Zenith:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on February 23, 2011, 10:10:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zenith ---Well, there should be something concrete to know if a particular thing is good or is evil.
--- End quote ---
We do have something concrete, it's called the halacha. But you don't follow the halacha, so what do you want from us?
--- End quote ---
then answer my insisted concrete question, according to your halacha:
--- Quote from: Zenith ---If chemical ingredients of foods are unhealthy, do people sin against G-d if they eat them, knowing that they are unhealthy?
--- End quote ---
I've heard pretty often that the foods that contain chemical ingredients (well, almost all foods on the market) are unhealthy, and that one should rather eat natural foods only (without chemical ingredients like preservatives, colorants, etc.)
Also, your answer does not answer all questions (regarding concrete things). If you say "you should not drink too much pepsi", you can never tell when you've sinned and when you haven't. Or, how much exactly should you drink at most in a certain period of time? If you specify a quantity, most surely you will hear other one saying a different quantity, and so on. If you have twenty people that drink pepsi, the first 0.5 liters per month, the second more than the first, the third more than the second, etc., the last 1 liter per day, which are those who sin and which are those who don't?
--- Quote ---It's amazing how fast you switch your arguments in these discussions on the forum. First you complained to me, that I can't say that having pepsi is unhealthy and therefore damaging and wrong/sinful because no one can resist pepsi and how can G-d punish someone for having a pepsi, it's just one drink. Now all of a sudden you are saying that there has to be a concrete rule either way, either it's allowed or it's not. But if it's not allowed, then you're back to your previous argument. How can G-d forbid us to drink pepsi? You need to make up your mind if you really want to have a serious discussion or if you just want to promote something.
--- End quote ---
The thing is in this way: from the verses in Deuteronomy you have given, I can see that only through a forced interpretation you can get to understand a "taking care of your physical health" commandment. But, as you strongly believe otherwise, I was trying to see your logic in these matters, because there are some logical things that are bugging me with this theory, which is present probably in all religions (I know it's present in christianity). Then, I did not complain to you that you "can't say that having pepsi is unhealthy and therefore damaging and wrong/sinful because no one can resist pepsi and how can G-d punish someone for having a pepsi, it's just one drink." That's because, whether you believe or it or not, it doesn't make it be so, so there's no point in complaining to you, because, if it is sin, it remains sin, but if it is not sin, it will not become one, no matter who believes what. So I'm not complaining it to you.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: Zenith ---I suppose that idol worship is an exception to it.
--- End quote ---
It is of course, and Muman never said otherwise. Jews are required to give up their lives rather than worship an idol, engage in forbidden relations, or murder someone. Saving one's life takes precedence over all other mitzvot besides those 3.
--- End quote ---
Ok, thanks. Just wanned to make sure.
--- Quote from: KWRBT ---You do know that people with diabetes still eat food right?
If having a cookie makes their condition worse and puts them in a serious danger, then yes they are doing something sinful. Any time someone puts his life in danger for no good reason it is indeed a sinful behavior! But I don't have diabetes and I don't know about the 'cookie' you are imagining so I don't know the exact situation. What's so hard to understand that harming yourself is bad?
--- End quote ---
Yes, people with diabetes still eat food, but they are forbidden to eat and drink things with sugar, because it affects their health, as far as I remember. And cookies, or at least ordinary cookies do contain sugar.
--- Quote ---Yes, G-d wants us to be healthy, not just the health food store, the local gym, and the consumer protection agency. G-d also wants us to be healthy.
--- End quote ---
Of course G-d wants us to be healthy, as He wants our welfare (psychically, socially, to have the things we need, like warmth, where to sleep, etc.). But, as far as I know, if you don't do gym, if you don't have friends, or you do but too few, if you do not have comfort, etc. you do not sin against G-d, even though He wants people like you, to have them (so you can say that G-d wants your welfare).
--- Quote from: KWRBT ---
--- Quote from: Zenith ---about harming yourself... I really have doubts that G-d condemns a diabetes man for eating a cookie (i.e. he's had relish for cookies), though he is forbidden to. And if Pepsi would do some kind of harm, it's hard for me to believe that G-d would condemn a man for drinking Pepsi.
--- End quote ---
First you said the idea that "G-d condemns a man for drinking Pepsi" is something you can't believe. What exactly do you mean by G-d condemning a man?
--- End quote ---
by "condemning a man" I mean that thing with the balance good deeds vs. bad deeds at judgement (I hope I remembered it right that you believe it so. Don't remember exactly from where I've read it). So, the thing I meant was that, if a man drinks pepsi knowing that it is unhealthy, it is hard for me to believe that the drinking of pepsi would be added on the balance of "evil deeds", so that a man may suffer the afterlife punishment, because he drank pepsi.
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: Zenith ---doesn't the alcohol kill neurons? that's what I've heard.
--- End quote ---
Doesn't taking a shower kill skin cells?
.... Oops.
--- End quote ---
As far as I know, the neurons that die do not grow back. And this is seen mostly on alcoholic people, because their memory and thinking capability is lower. On the other hand, I'm sure that skin cells do grow back (i.e. you do not remain with few skin cells because you took a lot of baths in your lifetime).
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version