Author Topic: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots  (Read 1212 times)

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Offline muman613

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New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« on: March 01, 2011, 09:02:11 PM »
I am only repeating what I read from IsraelNationalNews. I don't know either way but this article seems to suggest that this is more than a rumor...

If Gadaffi does have Jewish roots that doesn't change a thing. He surely is an Apikoris and a wicked murderer and should be put to death. I do not feel any Ahavat Yisroel for this piece of human garbage..




http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/142593

'Qaddafi is Jewish and I'm His Cousin'
Adar 26, 5771, 02 March 11 02:17
by Elad Benari and Yoni Kempinski


(Israelnationalnews.com) There have been rumors in the past about Libyan leader Moammar Qaddafi's Jewish roots, and now it seems to be confirmed. Israel National News TV met with Gita Boaron, who claims that the Libyan dictator is indeed Jewish and that she is a distant cousin.

"Qaddafi’s grandmother is my grandmother’s sister," explained Boaron. "His grandmother is my father’s grandmother. She was Jewish, became Muslim and married the town sheikh. She had children and he’s her grandson so he’s considered Jewish because his mother was born to a Jewish mother. So it means he’s Jewish.”

Boaron, who heard the story about Qaddafi's Jewish roots from her mother as she was growing up, said that her family has never even considered getting closer to Qaddafi, since "There’s no place like Israel," as she put it.

She noted that it is only recently that Qaddafi has really become anti-Jewish.

"He always loved the Jews and didn’t do anything bad to them," she said. "The moment he started to speak against the Jews, I said: ‘Just wait. He’ll get what’s coming to him.’ Two weeks later the protests started there.”

Boaron noted the historically good connections that Qaddafi had with the Jewish people. "They say he had connections with the Jews. His son is going to marry a Jewish woman, maybe he already married her. It was in the media, that his son married a Jewish woman from Italy or France."

She described the current situation in the Arab world as "chaos. One eats the other. May they eat one another and not us."
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 09:39:17 PM »
I agree 100% with you but I do question the accuracy of this claim. Wasn't there a claim about Achmadinajad in Iran about him being Jewish then a week later it turned out to be false
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 09:48:02 PM »
I am only repeating what I read from IsraelNationalNews. I don't know either way but this article seems to suggest that this is more than a rumor...

If Gadaffi does have Jewish roots that doesn't change a thing. He surely is an Apikoris and a wicked murderer and should be put to death. I do not feel any Ahavat Yisroel for this piece of human garbage..



"Apikorus" wouldn't really be the word to describe him.

It's good if he's Jewish because then the Arab world's nazi antisemitism will shine through again in their protest movement against him.   It is important that that gets exposed to people who don't know about it.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 10:09:10 PM »
"Apikorus" wouldn't really be the word to describe him.

It's good if he's Jewish because then the Arab world's nazi antisemitism will shine through again in their protest movement against him.   It is important that that gets exposed to people who don't know about it.

I was stretching the word... Basically I meant that he doesn't believe in the Jewish faith... I have no idea what he really believes except for the reports I read which say he believes that he is a prophet, or even a G-d... That would bring him very near to being an apikorus.

http://www.frumtoronto.com/Blogger.asp?BlogCategoryID=67&ShowEntryID=31

Quote


SEFER CHOFETZ CHAIM — Laws of Loshon Hora 8:7

The Chofetz Chaim writes that it is permitted, and at times even a mitzvah, to speak loshon hora about an apikoros. The Chofetz Chaim defines apikoros as someone “who denies the Torah or the prophecies of Israel, either the written Torah or the Oral Torah, even if he says that he believes in the entire Torah except for one verse or one law which is derived from the Torah through the principles transmitted at Sinai.”

In our day, it is difficult to relate to this halachah. This is because the typical non-observant Jew today is a far different personality from the nonobservant Jew of Europe a century or two ago. There was a time in the not-too-distant past when the vast majority of Jews were observant of every point of halachah. The winds of change, which were first felt in Germany some two centuries ago, led to the so-called “Enlightenment,” from which later developed Reform Judaism, Jewish Socialism and Communism, and other movements which sought to uproot authentic observance of Judaism. It was in this heretical climate that many, including young men and women who had been raised in observant homes, were swept up by the awful momentum of the time and abandoned the ways of their forebears.

It is a mitzvah to speak derogatorily of an apikoros to publicize his wickedness so that the innocent will know to keep their distance from him and not fall prey to his influence. However, as we have mentioned previously, the average non-observant Jew in our day has the status of a tinok shenishbah (a child who was captured by gentiles) and it is forbidden to speak loshon hora about him.

The Chofetz Chaim stresses that we cannot assume that someone is an apikoros based on hearsay. We can consider someone an apikoros if we personally heard him make heretical statements, or if there are consistent reports throughout the community that the person’s statements and behavior place him in this category.

In concluding this segment, the Chofetz Chaim expresses his concern that baalei loshon hora (habitual gossipers) will use this halachah to label innocent people as “heretics,” thereby claming that blatant loshon hora is a mitzvah! These sinners may feel justified in spreading negative information about anyone whom they please and claim that this was sanctioned by the Chofetz Chaim himself!
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http://www.oztorah.com/2007/04/an-apikoros-ask-the-rabbi/

Quote
Q. What is an apikoros?

A. It means “unbeliever”. Using this epithet is an insult only if you intend it to be such. But though an apikoros is missing out on the inspiration that comes from being a believer, no-one can be forced to believe, and you cannot argue them into belief.

Homiletically, the word derives from pakar, “to break forth”, and hence it is someone who rebels against traditional religion; an associated word, hefker, means free or abandoned. Historically, the name is from the Greek philosopher Epicurus (341-270 BCE), who believed that with the correct philosophy of life a person could reach “quietude of mind and steadfast faith”. Associated with his name is the view that though the universe is eternal and infinite, nothing is created out of nothing and nothing passes into nothing. The soul is destructible; pleasure is the beginning and end of the good life. The existence of God or the gods is not denied, but God (or the gods) do not control the world or feel concern for man. (See Josephus, Antiquities 10:11:7; cf. Maimonides, Guide for the Perplexed 3:17).

Judaism found this problematical. It preferred seriousness and moral strictness to pleasure and indulgence. It believed not only that God was the Creator but that His Providence continued to rule the creation. It could not accept that God had abandoned His world and left it hefker, ownerless. It developed a firm doctrine of the two worlds – this world and the World to Come. It applied the term apikoros to anyone who rejected these basic Jewish doctrines and warned that the apikoros had no share in the World to Come (Mishnah Sanh. 10:1).

In due course it extended the meaning of the term very widely to anyone who did not show respect to the sages. Me’iri (13th cent.)
defines an apikoros as one who despises a learned person and his learning and thus denies the things he should believe in (commentary to Sanh. 90a).

To Maimonides (Hilchot T’shuvah, chapter 3), an apikoros rejects prophecy and the prophetic status of Moses, and denies that God knows the deeds of human beings. The Shulchan Aruch adds that the apikoros not only lacks belief but transgresses the law on purpose, e.g. by eating forbidden food or wearing sha’atnez, a prohibited mixture of textiles (CH.M. 425:5).

There is a distinction between an apikoros and an am ha’aretz, an ignoramus. An unbeliever who is also an ignoramus is a major problem, because he does not know what it is that he does not believe in. Hence when the Mishnah says that one must know what to answer an apikoros (Avot 2:14), it may be saying that he must not be allowed to remain uninformed.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 10:16:22 PM »
I was stretching the word... Basically I meant that he doesn't believe in the Jewish faith... I have no idea what he really believes except for the reports I read which say he believes that he is a prophet, or even a G-d... That would bring him very near to being an apikorus.

I really don't know what you're getting at.   

Really believes what?  What are you talking about?

An Apikoris is a learned Jew who understands the intricacies of Judaism and rejects belief in God and observance of halacha and denies the principles of Judaism.    It really has no relation to some sand shvartza who was raised as a muslim, no matter what strange thoughts he has or doesn't have.

This evil butcher should get what's coming to him no matter what his background is.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 12:21:15 AM »
I really don't know what you're getting at.  

Really believes what?  What are you talking about?

An Apikoris is a learned Jew who understands the intricacies of Judaism and rejects belief in G-d and observance of halacha and denies the principles of Judaism.    It really has no relation to some sand shvartza who was raised as a muslim, no matter what strange thoughts he has or doesn't have.

This evil butcher should get what's coming to him no matter what his background is.

Your definition is only one definition, and not the classically accepted one.. At least according to my understanding...

http://www.jewishideas.org/articles/david-mamet-return-native

Quote
The Apikoros

In his glossary at the very end of this book, Mamet defines the term apikoros, derived from the name of the Greek philosopher Epicurus, "as a heretic learned in Judaism but rejects it." Truthfully, however, one is moved to remind Mamet that his definition of this term is entirely different from the one used in classic Jewish sources, with which he may be only marginally acquainted. For the definition found in the Talmud and summarized definitively by Maimonides, among others, in his Book of Repentance 3:8, reads as follows: an Apikoros is anyone who "denies the concept of prophecy, which reaches from G-d to the heart of man, or, anyone who denies the prophetic powers of Moses; or anyone who denies G-d's knowledge of man's actions, deeds, or works." Obviously, then, one need not be a "learned person" to be called an Apikoros: It is enough that he dismisses any of the fundamental principles of the Torah.

Honestly, I use the word Apikoris in place of heretic...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 03:47:33 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8353216/Dictators-and-their-sons-Col-Gaddafis-billionaire-children.html

Dictators and their sons: Col Gaddafi's billionaire children

Even as their father proclaimed he was building a classless state built on socialist and Islamic principles, Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi's and his children built vast fortunes in sectors from hostels to oil.

Britain has announced that the assets of the dictator and his family have been frozen, and the Treasury has created a special unit to trace the multi-billion pound assets they are thought to have squirrelled away in investments in the city. For years, though, that fortune helped the Gaddafi family win friends and influence across the world.

Saif al-Islam, the suave, western-educated second son of the Libyan dictator, was the best known of the sons.

Seen as the natural successor to his father before the wave of protests across the north African nation, the 38 year old Saif al-Islam presented himself as a reformer. He was welcomed in the West as the acceptable face of the regime, and claims the Duke of York, Peter Mandelson and Tony Blair among his "good friends".

In 1995, he received his degree in architecture and engineering at Tripoli's al-Fateh University, and then went on to obtain a management degree from the International Business School in Vienna before gaining a doctorate at Britain's London School of Economics (LSE).

Presenting himself as a humanitarian ambassador through the charitable body he set up in 1997, the young Gaddafi – whose name means the sword of Islam in Arabic – was at the heart of the complex negotiations over the Bulgarian nurses and Palestinian doctor freed by Libya in July 2007.

His foundation also negotiated the release of Western hostages held by a group of Islamist extremists in the Philippines in 2000 – who had earlier been funded by his father. He is said to have personally negotiated the financial compensation paid by Libya to the families of victims killed in the Lockerbie plane bombing in 1988 and the 1989 bombing of a French airliner.

The shaven headed bachelor, who keeps lions as pets, enjoys sea fishing and has a number of falcons with which he hunts, pledged a £1.5 million through his foundation to his alma mater, the LSE, a donation that in the light of recent events has caused no end of embarrassment to the university.

Saif al-Islam was a regular at London's top night spots. He and his brothers reportedly paid over £600,000 a pop to get Mariah Carey, Beyoncé and Usher to sing at their birthday parties.

It is reported that Saif al-Islam owns an £10 million mansion in Hampstead, North London – complete with suede-lined cinema room and swimming pool. The house was bought in 2009 by a holding company registered in the British Virgin Islands.

According to US diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks, the Gaddafi children routinely benefited from the Libya's wealth. One cable written by Chris Stevens, a US diplomat in Libya, said it had "become common practice" for government funds to be used to promote companies controlled by Gaddafi's children. He also indicated that their companies have all benefited from "considerable government financing and political backing."

Gaddafi's fifth eldest son, Hannibal, also developed a reputation for things unconnected to his business acumen. In 2001, he attacked three Italian policemen with a fire extinguisher. In September 2004, he was briefly detained in Paris after driving a Porsche at high speed in the wrong direction and through red lights down the Champs-Elysees while intoxicated.

A year later his model wife, Aline Skaf, filed an assault suit against him. And on July 15, 2008, Hannibal and his wife were held for two days and charged with assaulting two maids in a hotel in Geneva, Switzerland. Gaddafi retaliated by arresting Swiss nationals in Libya and suspended oil deliveries to Switzerland.

Rumours have long abounded that state funds were used to further the career of Col Gaddafi's footballing son, Saadi, who despite his limited talent once played for Perugia in the Italian football league. The 37-year old, third son of Gaddafi was planning a new city styled on Vegas in the west of Libya.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 09:06:46 PM »
Your definition is only one definition, and not the classically accepted one.. At least according to my understanding...

http://www.jewishideas.org/articles/david-mamet-return-native

Honestly, I use the word Apikoris in place of heretic...



lol, what?


Ask any rabbi, an apikorus is a person with great knowledge of Judaism.   An am haaretz, for example, cannot be called an apikorus.

But qadafi cannot even qualify as an am haaretz

Offline muman613

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 09:11:36 PM »
lol, what?


Ask any rabbi, an apikorus is a person with great knowledge of Judaism.   An am haaretz, for example, cannot be called an apikorus.

I have only found vague mention of this 'knowledge of Judaism' concerning Apikorsim...

This Halacha discussion does a good job of explaining the different 'heretics' who have no part in the world to come...

http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?ClipDate=9/16/2007

I am not arguing but I will post what 'wikipedia' says concerning Rambams word on Apikoris..

Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apikoris
Views of Maimonides

In summarizing the Talmudic statements concerning heretics in Sanh. 90-103, Maimonides ("Yad," Teshubah, iii. 6-8) says:

"The following have no share in the world to come, but are cut off, and perish, and receive their punishment for all time for their great sin: the minim, the apiḳoresim, they that deny the belief in the Torah, they that deny the belief in resurrection of the dead and in the coming of the Redeemer, the apostates, they that lead many to sin, they that turn away from the ways of the [Jewish] community... Five are called 'minim': (1) he who says there is no God and the world has no guide; (2) he who says the world has more than one guide; (3) he who ascribes to the Lord of the Universe a body and a figure; (4) he who says that God was not alone and Creator of all things at the world's beginning; (5) he who worships some star or constellation as an intermediating power between himself and the Lord of the World.

"The following three classes are called 'apiḳoresim': (1) he who says there was no prophecy nor was there any wisdom that came from God and which was attained by the heart of man; (2) he who denies the prophetic power of Moses our master; (3) he who says that God has no knowledge concerning the doings of men.

"The following three are called 'koferim ba-Torah': (1) he who says the Torah is not from God: he is a kofer even if he says a single verse or letter thereof was said by Moses of his own accord; (2) he who denies the traditional interpretation of the Torah and opposes those authorities who declare it to be tradition, as did Zadok and Boethus; and (3) he who says, as do the Nazarenes and the Mohammedans, that the Lord has given a new dispensation instead of the old, and that he has abolished the Law, though it was originally divine."

It is noteworthy, however, that Abraham ben David, in his critical notes, objects to Maimonides characterizing as heretics all those who attribute corporeality to God; and he insinuates that the Kabbalists are not heretics. Similarly, Biblical critics who doubt or deny the Mosaic origin of every portion of the Pentateuch, would protest against this Maimonidean (or Talmudic; see Sanh. 99a) conception of heresy (some ascribe a similar view to Ibn Ezra based on his commentary to Deut. i. 2).
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 09:15:23 PM »
Mamet actually is a pretty smart guy, I don't think he would just make stuff up, so something tells me the reviewers don't have their facts straight.  But I have honestly never heard of a Muslim being called an apikorus (whether he's technically Jewish or not but has no idea that he is).  It's so ludicrous.   It's like calling a watermelon a moron.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 09:18:16 PM »
Mamet actually is a pretty smart guy, I don't think he would just make stuff up, so something tells me the reviewers don't have their facts straight.  But I have honestly never heard of a Muslim being called an apikorus (whether he's technically Jewish or not but has no idea that he is).  It's so ludicrous.   It's like calling a watermelon a moron.

I am the one who used that term to describe him. Whether it is Halachically correct is another matter. I am attempting to explain why I see the term Apikoris as a general term for a person who denies Jewish beliefs... I concede that I may not be 100% accurate in this term..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 09:21:36 PM »
I am the one who used that term to describe him. Whether it is Halachically correct is another matter. I am attempting to explain why I see the term Apikoris as a general term for a person who denies Jewish beliefs... I concede that I may not be 100% accurate in this term..



But how can someone who has no background in Jewish beliefs, has no idea what they are, has no relation to them, considers himself a non-Jew and was raised as one, possibly be one who "denies Jewish beliefs?"

Offline muman613

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 09:33:28 PM »
But how can someone who has no background in Jewish beliefs, has no idea what they are, has no relation to them, considers himself a non-Jew and was raised as one, possibly be one who "denies Jewish beliefs?"

It is a good question... As I said, I do not assert that my use of the term was Kosher... Good point..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 09:35:47 PM »
I basically view qaddafi as a terrorist.

Offline muman613

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Re: New Report : Gadaffis Jewish roots
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 09:39:45 PM »
I basically view qaddafi as a terrorist.

So do I... I don't believe he has any Jewish neshamah..

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14