Ask JTF is ready, baruch Hashem (03/07/11)

[ProJewGreekChristian]

You ask if I've been out in the real world then proceed to laud blacks. You obviously can't read or discern the meaning of sentences if you think I said or believe that we should HATE anybody because of their complexion. It's the personal identification with evil they associate therewith; not all do this, but more than 90%. We should be vigilant in how we deal with someone from a particular people when 90+% of that people is made up of extremely wicked people, people which have declared war on the White West. Basically, they have the burden of proof. Do I think we should hate pastor manning because he's black? Of course not, and  only a dumb moron would interpret I'm saying we should. I don't hate dark-skinned Jews (LOL) nor do I see them in any way shape or form similar to blacks. (why are you identifying yourself with an enemy of the Jewish people?) even Arabs, despite the majority being evil, do not elicit the same feelings that the brothas do.

YOU obviously have never really been around blacks. Perhaps a few here and there (as you profess one brought you back to Judaism) but surely they don't represent MAINSTREAM black culture.

[muman613]

You ask if I've been out in the real world then proceed to laud blacks. You obviously can't read or discern the meaning of sentences if you think I said or believe that we should HATE anybody because of their complexion. It's the personal identification with evil they associate therewith; not all do this, but more than 90%. We should be vigilant in how we deal with someone from a particular people when 90+% of that people is made up of extremely wicked people, people which have declared war on the White West. Basically, they have the burden of proof. Do I think we should hate pastor manning because he's black? Of course not, and  only a dumb moron would interpret I'm saying we should. I don't hate dark-skinned Jews (LOL) nor do I see them in any way shape or form similar to blacks. (why are you identifying yourself with an enemy of the Jewish people?) even Arabs, despite the majority being evil, do not elicit the same feelings that the brothas do.

YOU obviously have never really been around blacks. Perhaps a few here and there (as you profess one brought you back to Judaism) but surely they don't represent MAINSTREAM black culture.

You are such a noob. I have experienced the entire gamut of African Americans... You are not in a position to tell me how they are, I have very much experience. My nose was broken by the black gang Venice Shoreline Crips in the 80s. I have lived with some of the most dispicable blacks you can imagine.

But the problem is that you are looking to categorize people based on their skin color and not on their actions. That is racism plain and simple. It is not Jewish and I don't know if it is a christian thing, but we believe that Hashem created everything and everyone. All mankind is created in the image of Hashem, and it is freewill which decides whether a person is righteous or wicked, not the color of their eyes or their hair or even their skin...

I don't want to argue with you but I think you need to get out and experience life a little more before making sweeping statements like you do. So you think Pastor Manning is the only good black person? That is a little naive, in my opinion...

I will defend the righteous against the wicked, no matter what color they are... What is important is in the heart and mind of man.

Of  course when in a 'bad neighborhood' one must use 'street smarts' to avoid ugly situations. I have been in some of the ugliest situations and yet I live to talk about it. But I also have known some extremely shady whites who steal and commit sexual immorality. Actually I have known more white people who are criminals than blacks, but that is because most people I know are whites.

PJGC, please tell us what blacks have done to you to make you hate them so much?

PS: I live in a majority black city.... And I have no problem with them... I get respect from them...

[cjd]

You are such a noob. I have experienced the entire gamut of African Americans... You are not in a position to tell me how they are, I have very much experience. My nose was broken by the black gang Venice Shoreline Crips in the 80s. I have lived with some of the most dispicable blacks you can imagine.

But the problem is that you are looking to categorize people based on their skin color and not on their actions. That is racism plain and simple. It is not Jewish and I don't know if it is a christian thing, but we believe that Hashem created everything and everyone. All mankind is created in the image of Hashem, and it is freewill which decides whether a person is righteous or wicked, not the color of their eyes or their hair or even their skin...

I don't want to argue with you but I think you need to get out and experience life a little more before making sweeping statements like you do. So you think Pastor Manning is the only good black person? That is a little naive, in my opinion...

I will defend the righteous against the wicked, no matter what color they are... What is important is in the heart and mind of man.

Of  course when in a 'bad neighborhood' one must use 'street smarts' to avoid ugly situations. I have been in some of the ugliest situations and yet I live to talk about it. But I also have known some extremely shady whites who steal and commit sexual immorality. Actually I have known more white people who are criminals than blacks, but that is because most people I know are whites.

PJGC, please tell us what blacks have done to you to make you hate them so much?

PS: I live in a majority black city.... And I have no problem with them... I get respect from them...

William Kunstler lives again ! By the way what's a "noob"

[nessuno]

Stop insulting the noobs!  We need more noobs on the forum.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Do you mean there should be no use of profiling security screening at airports like Israel does ? I treat someone who was born an Arab with suspicion because I have a good reason to be suspicious. Although I don't know him, I know the people he belongs to. You have a group of enemies and you know how they raise their children and what type of role models they have. And I don't believe in equality for all. If someone is a Nazi he has no rights as far as I am concerned. No rights, no respect, in fact I won't even recognize his humanity.

But all that you said is justified because arabs are a direct national enemy population.   On the other hand I don't think there is a comparison with blacks nor do I think it would be sensible or justified for one to refer to blacks as an enemy population! 

[ProJewGreekChristian]

You are such a noob. I have experienced the entire gamut of African Americans... You are not in a position to tell me how they are, I have very much experience. My nose was broken by the black gang Venice Shoreline Crips in the 80s. I have lived with some of the most dispicable blacks you can imagine.

[...]

 I have been in some of the ugliest situations and yet I live to talk about it.

[...]

PS: I live in a majority black city.... And I have no problem with them... I get respect from them...

lol... my goodness... I have nothing to prove... If you really need me to list specific incidents regarding what black people have done to my person or property, you obviously don't get it.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Muman I think where you and pjgc are disagreeing is that you both agree the popular "black culture" is something insidious and harmful to society.  I agree with u muman that every black person cannot be blamed for it, held accountable for all that or assumed to adhere to it and behave in an evil way.   Pjgc is saying that a large majority of black people do, though.   I honestly don't think that's true.   It IS true that a huge majority of violent crimes are committed by blacks, but those blacks are still a small portion of all black people.   So yeah maybe blacks on average do have more criminals or violent delinquents than whites, ok, its still not really fair to assume they are all like that.

[muman613]

Muman I think where you and pjgc are disagreeing is that you both agree the popular "black culture" is something insidious and harmful to society.  I agree with u muman that every black person cannot be blamed for it, held accountable for all that or assumed to adhere to it and behave in an evil way.   Pjgc is saying that a large majority of black people do, though.   I honestly don't think that's true.   It IS true that a huge majority of violent crimes are committed by blacks, but those blacks are still a small portion of all black people.   So yeah maybe blacks on average do have more criminals or violent delinquents than whites, ok, its still not really fair to assume they are all like that.

I agree with you... I have always stood against evil black culture and have been attacked as being 'racist' because I proclaimed in the 90s that I hated Gangsta Rap {and most all Rap music}. I also despise the immorality which exists in this culture {the disregard of marriage and family}.

But I am also aware that not all black people are 'into' that stuff. I know that there are exceptions. So while it is important to always stand against evil, against that which causes otherwise good people to go down the wrong path, we also need to remember that this is not due to hatred spawned by racism. I do look for redeeming qualities in every man and woman and would not live up to my goals if I would reject people based on their outer qualities.

Look at this UseNet group which I used to contribute to in the 90s {alt.rap.gdead}... I used to use the NIC Arnold Lane and here is a conversation where I stood up against rap music..

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.gdead/browse_thread/thread/6e5d390e24e9bbf4/e6be30630365e1ba?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=arnold+lane+gangsta+rap#e6be30630365e1ba

Arnold Lane  Feb 6 1995, 3:35 pm

=======================================================
Rap Music and the American Culture Dump
=======================================================

Let me start by saying that I have never been a fan of rap
'music'. I find nothing musical about it, either gangsta rap or
whatever kinda pop-rap trash is out there. I look for musical
things in the music I listen to. I hear music in the songs the
Dead play. I hear music in the songs Rush plays. I hear music in
the songs Phish plays. I hear absolutely nothing but a Drum
machine and someone shouting supposed lyrics to a beat. Now I
understand that people are entitled to like anything they want.
What I am concerned about is the psychological impact of the more
popular rap genres. Gansta Rap is one of the biggest rap fields
to be in. "Cop Killer" is an excellent example. I believe in
responsible art and responsible presentation of ideas. I am
against too much violence on TV, in the music, and in the mind.
Our media is blasting us with graphic violence images. Our
elementary school aged kids are exposed to it in the school
system. We are 'white' and middle class, yet the media portrayal
of "Gangsta" cool has made it into our girls. It is a sad thing
when Peace is forgotten and violence is taught by .02 MTV media
tools. Maybe RAP isn't the problem... But is sure as hell ain't
the cure...

--

Arnold Lane        Feb 18 1995, 2:18 am

Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Arnold Lane <[email protected]>
Date: 17 Feb 1995 20:10:57 GMT
Local: Fri, Feb 17 1995 12:10 pm
Subject: Re: alt.rap-gdead

George wrote:
>It's a shame you weren't older in the 50's , so you can get
>hysterical about that Elvis guy, playing that black music and
>shaking his hips, inciting white girls from nice families to
>become promiscous.

George,

Again you are trying to make it a racial issue here. I am not
racist and have nothing against 'black music' or inter-racial
couples. You incorrectly assume that this is the issue. As a
matter of fact I have several Blues and Jazz albums by great
black musicians. They are the real MUSICIANS where Rappers are
usually not too talented musically.

Sure, music does not make you do things you wouldnt ordinarily
do.... But a person is influenced by what he surrounds himself
with. We are influenced by the MEDIA powers that be. Look at the
OJ case and you can understand that in todays day and age the
MEDIA does influence peoples behaviour. Your denial of that
causes you to miss my point. It is nothing against
'young-black-men'... It is a point about trying to prevent the
spread of violent ideas, ideas which just foster gang
relationships. And yes, street gang violence has risen in the
last 10 years. The statistics prove it... Maybe it is rap?

--
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**> Arnold Lane                    | "Reach out your cup,       |
**> [email protected]       |  if your cup is empty..."  |
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Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Arnold Lane <[email protected]>
Date: 8 Feb 1995 00:48:46 GMT
Local: Tues, Feb 7 1995 4:48 pm
Subject: Re: alt.rap-dead

Brian Tiffany Wrote :

>Instead of talking about problems minorities face,
>Instead of allowing them a creative outlet for their anger and
>frustration, Instead of looking at problems that exist in our
>society, let's just sweep them under this here rug.

Brian,

1st off... I really think your assumption that I am racist is a
bit off-base. I am not, nor have I ever been racist. It offends
me that you might make such an accusation without even knowing me
or even reading what I am saying. I said nothing about Blacks or
Whites.. I said that I am a middle class white living in LA. I
made no judgement on culture or lifestyle. I have a problem with
things which enrage and move people to violence. VIOLENCE is the
problem, not the color of the skin. VIOLENCE is perpetrated
through the media. It is PERPETRATED by the MC-COP KILLERS out
there. It is perpetrated by the MTV Bastards {BTW I have never
had MTV on my TV {Beavis and Butthead SUCK!}} who are concerned
with CENSORING the word JOINT from Tom Pettys video but
accepting the display of weapons and sexist cliche's without
thinking twice. Brian, I think you have a completely incorrect
opinion about me. I think Globally and will not tolerate racism,
sexism, or anti-semitism. Bluntly... Think again...

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
**> Michael Uman                   | "Reach out your cup,       |
**> [email protected]       |  if your cup is empty..."  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------

PS: Please forgive me for stating that I had nothing against inter-racial couples. This was posted in 1995, a LONG LONG LONG time before I did my Teshuva... I did Teshuva in 2003,  8 years after posting this....

[nessuno]

What is the problem with 'inter-racial' couples?
I thought you have no problem with interracial couples.
Could you explain what you mean?

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

Muman, why are you insulting one of our members in your posts? This member is entitled to his opinion - which I happen to agree with. He is correct in stating that the vast majority of blacks are part of an evil culture which is viciously anti-Jewish. After all the Jews did for these creatures, they have the gall to hate the Jews with a Nazi-like hatred.

*When the black Hitler Jesse Jackson ran for president in 1984 and 1988, he got 94% of the black vote.

*When the other black Hitler Al Sharpton ran for mayor of New York in 1997, he got 93% of the black vote.

*One million black Nazis went to Louis Farakhan's Nazi rally in 1995 which was co-sponsored by every major black organization and black politician in America. One of the black Nazis attending this Nazi rally was Barack Hussein Osama who received 98% of the black vote in 2008.

When a nation or people turn against the Jews, we are commanded to hate them. Are there are black exceptions to the rule such as Pastor Manning? Of course. But if people are members of an enemy nation, the burden of proof is on them to show that they are different from their evil brothers and sisters. Otherwise they are to be regarded as the enemy. There is collective punishment in Torah Judaism, and there is collective guilt. Those who are not evil must clearly distinguish themselves from the evildoers.

[ProJewGreekChristian]

But if people are members of an enemy nation, the burden of proof is on them to show that they are different from their evil brothers and sisters. Otherwise they are to be regarded as the enemy. There is collective punishment in Torah Judaism, and there is collective guilt. Those who are not evil must clearly distinguish themselves from the evildoers.

It's no coincidence that sounds familiar to what I was saying earlier. You've had a profound influence on my thinking Chaim.

We should be vigilant in how we deal with someone from a particular people when 90+% of that people is made up of extremely wicked people, people which have declared war on the White West. Basically, they have the burden of proof. Do I think we should hate pastor manning because he's black? Of course not

[muman613]

בס''ד

Muman, why are you insulting one of our members in your posts? This member is entitled to his opinion - which I happen to agree with. He is correct in stating that the vast majority of blacks are part of an evil culture which is viciously anti-Jewish. After all the Jews did for these creatures, they have the gall to hate the Jews with a Nazi-like hatred.

*When the black Hitler Jesse Jackson ran for president in 1984 and 1988, he got 94% of the black vote.

*When the other black Hitler Al Sharpton ran for mayor of New York in 1997, he got 93% of the black vote.

*One million black Nazis went to Louis Farakhan's Nazi rally in 1995 which was co-sponsored by every major black organization and black politician in America. One of the black Nazis attending this Nazi rally was Barack Hussein Osama who received 98% of the black vote in 2008.

When a nation or people turn against the Jews, we are commanded to hate them. Are there are black exceptions to the rule such as Pastor Manning? Of course. But if people are members of an enemy nation, the burden of proof is on them to show that they are different from their evil brothers and sisters. Otherwise they are to be regarded as the enemy. There is collective punishment in Torah Judaism, and there is collective guilt. Those who are not evil must clearly distinguish themselves from the evildoers.

Chaim,

I don't think you understand what I said, and I have repeated it several times. There is a difference between the black culture and the black individual. I have heard you say this very thing yourself, so I don't quite understand why you are making a deal out of this.

It is racist to judge people based on the color of their skin. If you are saying that you are racist that is something new to me and I will have to re-assess the goal of JTF. I have been told several times that JTF is NOT a racist organization, yet here you are saying that it is.

Could you please clarify what the JTF position is on this.

Also, since when has the black nation been deemed an enemy of the Jewish people? I have never read this anywhere, nor have I heard any Talmudic or Rabbinic decree that this is the case. Certainly we know that Edomite and Ishmaelite nations are our enemies... But I have never heard, except when you just said this here, that the Kushites are our enemies.

Simply because Jesse Jackson is an antisemite and Farrakhan is an antisemite does not make them all antisemites. It is not rational to exhibit irrational hatred and hate an entire people based on the bad deeds of a minority of the population. In all cases you mentioned about Sharpton, Jackson, etc.... I am already aware of these enemies, but this does not make all blacks enemies of the Jewish people. To believe what you are saying would be insanity because there are many good blacks who are also pro-Israel.

If you think what I am saying is too far from JTFs goals, ie. I must hate blacks because you say so, then I think that JTF is going off-message.

PS: You know that I hate with a passion all the enemies of the Jewish people. I would give my life in order to protect a Jew from a Jew-hater any day..

PPS: PJC.... Please supply a citation which verifies this 90% figure which you throw around so liberally.

[muman613]

And as always I am not trying to create problems. I am truly concerned that sometimes we are expending energy on irrational hatred when we already have plenty of enemies which are actively working against us...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

בס''ד

Muman, why are you insulting one of our members in your posts? This member is entitled to his opinion - which I happen to agree with. He is correct in stating that the vast majority of blacks are part of an evil culture which is viciously anti-Jewish. After all the Jews did for these creatures, they have the gall to hate the Jews with a Nazi-like hatred.

*When the black Hitler Jesse Jackson ran for president in 1984 and 1988, he got 94% of the black vote.

*When the other black Hitler Al Sharpton ran for mayor of New York in 1997, he got 93% of the black vote.

*One million black Nazis went to Louis Farakhan's Nazi rally in 1995 which was co-sponsored by every major black organization and black politician in America. One of the black Nazis attending this Nazi rally was Barack Hussein Osama who received 98% of the black vote in 2008.

When a nation or people turn against the Jews, we are commanded to hate them. Are there are black exceptions to the rule such as Pastor Manning? Of course. But if people are members of an enemy nation, the burden of proof is on them to show that they are different from their evil brothers and sisters. Otherwise they are to be regarded as the enemy. There is collective punishment in Torah Judaism, and there is collective guilt. Those who are not evil must clearly distinguish themselves from the evildoers.

Points well taken.

[Secularbeliever]

בס''ד

Muman, why are you insulting one of our members in your posts? This member is entitled to his opinion - which I happen to agree with. He is correct in stating that the vast majority of blacks are part of an evil culture which is viciously anti-Jewish. After all the Jews did for these creatures, they have the gall to hate the Jews with a Nazi-like hatred.

*When the black Hitler Jesse Jackson ran for president in 1984 and 1988, he got 94% of the black vote.

*When the other black Hitler Al Sharpton ran for mayor of New York in 1997, he got 93% of the black vote.

*One million black Nazis went to Louis Farakhan's Nazi rally in 1995 which was co-sponsored by every major black organization and black politician in America. One of the black Nazis attending this Nazi rally was Barack Hussein Osama who received 98% of the black vote in 2008.

When a nation or people turn against the Jews, we are commanded to hate them. Are there are black exceptions to the rule such as Pastor Manning? Of course. But if people are members of an enemy nation, the burden of proof is on them to show that they are different from their evil brothers and sisters. Otherwise they are to be regarded as the enemy. There is collective punishment in Torah Judaism, and there is collective guilt. Those who are not evil must clearly distinguish themselves from the evildoers.

I had an interesting discussion with a non Jewish white friend recently.  We were driving and almost got hit by a Black guy driving crazily.  He started to say that he was not racist but what is it with these people.  I think there is a conflict for those of us who want to judge people as individuals but don't want to be blind as to what various people are.  Even Jessie Jackson, in a rare moment of honesty, admitted that if he is walking alone at night and hears people walking behind him, he breathes a sigh of relief when he sees that it is white people walking behind him.  I once left my office at work at a bank and saw a Black guy jumping over the teller's desk.  I knew we were being robbed.  If it had been a White guy, I might have taken an additional few seconds to draw that conclusion.  The reality in our area was that the Bank robbers were Black.  There is no point in pretending otherwise in order to prove you are not racist.

My criticism of some of the racial discussion here, is that there seems to be a delight in finding Black miscreants and almost enjoying the misery and self degradation of Black people.  I still believe that people deserve to be judged as individuals, that to always assume the worst about any Black person is wrong, to always attribute every wrong thingdone by a Black person to his race is wrong, but to recognize that Black culture is in many ways degraded, that even middle class Blacks are addicted to victimization at a time when Black people who avoid teen pregnancies, drugs, Black on Black violence, graduate from high school and college can do as well as anyone else.  It is a balancing act with no easy answer.

[muman613]

I had an interesting discussion with a non Jewish white friend recently.  We were driving and almost got hit by a Black guy driving crazily.  He started to say that he was not racist but what is it with these people.  I think there is a conflict for those of us who want to judge people as individuals but don't want to be blind as to what various people are.  Even Jessie Jackson, in a rare moment of honesty, admitted that if he is walking alone at night and hears people walking behind him, he breathes a sigh of relief when he sees that it is white people walking behind him.  I once left my office at work at a bank and saw a Black guy jumping over the teller's desk.  I knew we were being robbed.  If it had been a White guy, I might have taken an additional few seconds to draw that conclusion.  The reality in our area was that the Bank robbers were Black.  There is no point in pretending otherwise in order to prove you are not racist.

My criticism of some of the racial discussion here, is that there seems to be a delight in finding Black miscreants and almost enjoying the misery and self degradation of Black people.  I still believe that people deserve to be judged as individuals, that to always assume the worst about any Black person is wrong, to always attribute every wrong thingdone by a Black person to his race is wrong, but to recognize that Black culture is in many ways degraded, that even middle class Blacks are addicted to victimization at a time when Black people who avoid teen pregnancies, drugs, Black on Black violence, graduate from high school and college can do as well as anyone else.  It is a balancing act with no easy answer.

Very good points which I agree with.

[cjd]

And as always I am not trying to create problems. I am truly concerned that sometimes we are expending energy on irrational hatred when we already have plenty of enemies which are actively working against us...

How about this for some irrational hatred...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Heights_riot

[muman613]

How about this for some irrational hatred...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Heights_riot

Yes, that event is well known... That was horrible. But I hope you are not saying that because of the action of this mob that every black was guilty of carrying out that riot. I remember that day and will never let Sharpton and Jackson off the hook for their involvement. Jackson & Sharpton are two very obvious anti-semitic black leaders...

Conflicting community viewpoints

After the death of Gavin Cato, members of the black community believed that the decision to remove Lifsh from the scene first was racially motivated. They also maintained that this was one example of a perceived system of preferential treatment afforded to Jews in Crown Heights.[6] The preferential treatment was reported to include biased actions by law enforcement and allocations of government resources amongst others. Furthermore, many members of the black community were concerned about the expansion of Jews moving into the neighborhood, believing the latter were buying all of the property.[14]

Members of the Jewish community did not share this view. Many believed that allegations of favoritism made by blacks were not supported by facts; a number of studies disproved the allegations, including one study conducted specifically in response to this allegation.[5] It was widely believed in the Jewish community that these allegations were an attempt to mask blatant anti-Semitism committed against Jews during the riot. As examples, they point to anti-Semitic statements made by protesters throughout the rioting, and comments made at Gavin Cato’s funeral. In his eulogy at the funeral, the Rev. Al Sharpton made comments about "diamond dealers" and commented "it's an accident to allow an apartheid ambulance service in the middle of Crown Heights."[15] In addition, a banner displayed at the funeral read "Hitler did not do the job".[5]

Edward Shapiro, a historian at Brandeis University, later called the riot "the most serious anti-Semitic incident in American history".[3]

[cjd]

I had an interesting discussion with a non Jewish white friend recently.  We were driving and almost got hit by a Black guy driving crazily.  He started to say that he was not racist but what is it with these people.  I think there is a conflict for those of us who want to judge people as individuals but don't want to be blind as to what various people are.  Even Jessie Jackson, in a rare moment of honesty, admitted that if he is walking alone at night and hears people walking behind him, he breathes a sigh of relief when he sees that it is white people walking behind him.  I once left my office at work at a bank and saw a Black guy jumping over the teller's desk.  I knew we were being robbed.  If it had been a White guy, I might have taken an additional few seconds to draw that conclusion.  The reality in our area was that the Bank robbers were Black.  There is no point in pretending otherwise in order to prove you are not racist.

My criticism of some of the racial discussion here, is that there seems to be a delight in finding Black miscreants and almost enjoying the misery and self degradation of Black people.  I still believe that people deserve to be judged as individuals, that to always assume the worst about any Black person is wrong, to always attribute every wrong thingdone by a Black person to his race is wrong, but to recognize that Black culture is in many ways degraded, that even middle class Blacks are addicted to victimization at a time when Black people who avoid teen pregnancies, drugs, Black on Black violence, graduate from high school and college can do as well as anyone else.  It is a balancing act with no easy answer.

What is there to delight in?? Anyone with half a brain can see that black culture and filthy radical liberals are rapidly destroying todays American society... Blacks today have every advantage and should really be improving instead of going further down the tubes... The worse part of the picture is this pitiful minority is taking the rest of the country along with them... Sadly the vast majority of black youth today is in a regressive state... Despite every advantage for the most part they insist on living like jungle animals...Anyone that has  sympathy for this really deserves what they will ultimately get when animals like this call the shots... The picture today in Washington with the shvartza President really puts things into prospective... 

[Secularbeliever]

What is there to delight in?? Anyone with half a brain can see that black culture and filthy radical liberals are rapidly destroying todays American society... Blacks today have every advantage and should really be improving instead of going further down the tubes... The worse part of the picture is this pitiful minority is taking the rest of the country along with them... Sadly the vast majority of black youth today is in a regressive state... Despite every advantage for the most part they insist on living like jungle animals...Anyone that has  sympathy for this really deserves what they will ultimately get when animals like this call the shots... The picture today in Washington with the shvartza President really puts things into prospective...  <

I disagree with you that Blacks have advantages.  They have had years of being told that they don't have to work, don't have to take responsibility for their actions, they cannot compete honestly in school or in any brain oriented work.  That might sound like an advantage but it is a way to degrade people.  Walter Williams, in his biography noted that his father abandoned his family.  He lived in a largely Black housing project, and was the only one living without a father in his home.  How many White subdivisions can say that? 

The liberal, welfare culture has degraded and dehumanized Black people.  This is an explanation not an excuse, they still have to pay for crimes they commit, and need to take responsibility for their actions.  However, the fact is that the liberal welfare culture is seeping into the White community also.

[cjd]

Posted by: Secularbeliever
I disagree with you that Blacks have advantages.  They have had years of being told that they don't have to work, don't have to take responsibility for their actions, they cannot compete honestly in school or in any brain oriented work.  That might sound like an advantage but it is a way to degrade people.  Walter Williams, in his biography noted that his father abandoned his family.  He lived in a largely Black housing project, and was the only one living without a father in his home.  How many White subdivisions can say that?

I have followed Walter Williams over the years and found him to have a reasonable slant on the issue of race... I don't know if he still does it but years ago if  a white person sent him a self addressed stamped envelope he would send them back a certificate suitable for framing absolving them of white guilt... Williams feels as I do that it's high time blacks start pulling themselves up by their own boot strings and make a way for themselves just as all the other minorities did when they came to this country...50 or 60 years ago blacks may have been trapped in a welfare culture but there is no reason to be trapped in it today... I know Chaim does not hold with this position but personally speaking my experience with blacks over the years causes me to believe the majority of them are unable and unfit to coexist in harmony with other races... They are clearly a subspecies.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

My reply to Muman's latest comments:

Please supply a citation which verifies this 90% figure which you throw around so liberally.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEFD9173AF930A25755C0A96E948260

A quote from the article:

In 1988, Mr. Jackson won a larger share of a bigger black vote. He got 92 percent of all ballots cast by blacks this year.

Chaim,

I don't think you understand what I said, and I have repeated it several times. There is a difference between the black culture and the black individual. I have heard you say this very thing yourself, so I don't quite understand why you are making a deal out of this.

I am making a deal out of this? You are the one who came into this thread insulting and belittling one of our members as you so often do on this forum. You are the one who started this.

It is racist to judge people based on the color of their skin. If you are saying that you are racist that is something new to me and I will have to re-assess the goal of JTF. I have been told several times that JTF is NOT a racist organization, yet here you are saying that it is.

Either you are deliberately distorting what I wrote or you need a reading comprehension course.

Also, since when has the black nation been deemed an enemy of the Jewish people? I have never read this anywhere, nor have I heard any Talmudic or Rabbinic decree that this is the case. Certainly we know that Edomite and Ishmaelite nations are our enemies... But I have never heard, except when you just said this here, that the Kushites are our enemies.

Any people that hates the Jews is an enemy. American blacks have been seething with Nazi hatred toward the Jews for 50 years already.

Simply because Jesse Jackson is an antisemite and Farrakhan is an antisemite does not make them all antisemites. It is not rational to exhibit irrational hatred and hate an entire people based on the bad deeds of a minority of the population. In all cases you mentioned about Sharpton, Jackson, etc.... I am already aware of these enemies, but this does not make all blacks enemies of the Jewish people. To believe what you are saying would be insanity because there are many good blacks who are also pro-Israel.

Jackson and Farrakhan represent only a "minority" of blacks? 92% of the blacks voted to make Jackson president of the United States - that's a minority? How blind can you be?

What I am saying is "insanity"? You claim that "many good blacks...are also pro-Israel". No pro-Israel or decent black could get elected dog catcher in any black district. The entire Black Congressional Caucus has a "sacred covenant" with Louis Farrakhan and they attend his Nazi rallies. These Black Congressmen are all reelected with over 90% of the black vote every two years. When a decent black like Roy Innis runs in a black district, he cannot get even 5% of the black vote.

Muman, you have insulted people on this forum and started unnecessary conflicts so many times that we have all lost count.

You have defended the worst traitors in the OU even after it was pointed out that these vile criminals betrayed the Jewish hero Jonathan Pollard and ran full-page ads in the New York Nazi Times endorsing the Oslo suicide agreements that led to the surrender of Israel's sacred land and that led to the murder of 1800 Jews.

You are welcome to continue posting your views on this forum even though many of them are contrary to JTF's principles. You do not have to agree with JTF to be active on this forum.

But a moderator is a representative of this movement. You clearly do not agree with many of our fundamental positions. You refer to my views as "insanity". Therefore I am removing the moderator title.

[muman613]

Chaim,

Please respond to my PM...

[danny100]

Here is the NY times link to the incident with Rumsfeld and William Boykin.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/17/world/rumsfeld-praises-army-general-who-ridicules-islam-as-satan.html
I believe that Rumsfeld was the person in the Bush Administration especially on Israel.

BTW I accidentally wrote that Florida is the 3rd biggest state which is wrong but it's still the 4th most populous state in the USA which is still very important, And I hope Macro Rubio can restore things in that state.

Allen West is another righteous black politician in Florida who is very Pro-Israel.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It's about damn time.

Anyhow, I agree that JTF needs to be a respectable movement that is taken seriously. I really enjoyed and will continue to enjoy the African/Arab Action Stories but if Chaim and Shlomo think it's time to tone them down then I will completely support them. We have to condemn evil black and Arab culture (to which almost 100% of blacks and Arabs belong) but emphasize that blacks and Arabs still have free will and are capable of choosing righteousness.