Author Topic: An update about the JDL France  (Read 3943 times)

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Offline Yaakov Mendel

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An update about the JDL France
« on: March 11, 2011, 06:55:42 AM »
Not long ago, a thread was started about the JDL France: are they real Kahanists ?

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,52693.0.html

As I happen to live in France right now, and there is a substantial Jewish community there (around 800,000 Jews), I said I would get in touch with them and try to gauge whether they are reliable and whether we might think of starting some sort of alliance with them.
I have been posting extensively on their forum for the last month (in French, of course), publicizing JTF and Chaim's struggle and spreading JTF's message.
My posts have drawn a lot of reactions.
On the upside, the forum's administrator, Amnon Cohen, who is apparently the man in charge there, seems to have no connection with Shelley Rubin, and he responded positively to me, suggesting we should meet. I still don't know him very well, but so far, he seems to me to be a good man with good principles.
On the downside, the posts I wrote, which accurately reflect those - numerous - views of Chaim with which I completely agree, have drawn some very negative, sometimes hysterical, responses from some regular members of this forum. It looks like a sizeable proportion of their members are violently anti-religious. Some of them literally hate Judaism. You know me, I'm not exactly the most religious person in JTF although I do love Judaism and my fellow religious Jews, well, guess what, I was called "ultra-orthodox" and harshly insulted for that ! To give you an example of how far their hatred and their craziness go, I had to remind them that, according to the Halacha, a Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish or who went through a halachic conversion process. I said that they were free to have their own opinion of the rule, but that's the rule, and nobody is allowed to change it on his own initiative. They called me a Nazi and a Judenrat for saying this !! They said that anyone who says he feels Jewish is a Jew !
There are also a number of dhimmis out there who cannot stand hearing the basic truths about Islam that I remind them. They say that I incite hate and violence just because I explain to them why Muslims cannot be trusted.
To what extent these people are representative of the movement's views is hard to say, but they have been very active fighting me. The administrator, Amnon Cohen, rarely intervened to define the movement's "official" position on the issues I brought up, but on the few occasions he did, he turned out to be - carefully - supportive of me.
For the moment, I am wary of going to their meetings because I received threats for what I said. But I am definitely creating a stir by posting a lot and starting heated debates.
One good outcome is that I know for sure I am positively influencing some members there with JTF's message.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 07:24:00 AM by Yaakov Mendel »

Offline mord

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2011, 07:28:12 AM »
Not long ago, a thread was started about the JDL France: are they real Kahanists ?

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,52693.0.html

As I happen to live in France right now, and there is a substantial Jewish community there (around 800,000 Jews), I said I would get in touch with them and try to gauge whether they are reliable and whether we might think of starting some sort of alliance with them.
I have been posting extensively on their forum for the last month (in French, of course), publicizing JTF and Chaim's struggle and spreading JTF's message.
My posts have drawn a lot of reactions.
On the upside, the forum's administrator, Amnon Cohen, who is apparently the man in charge there, seems to have no connection with Shelley Rubin, and he responded positively to me, suggesting we should meet. I still don't know him very well, but so far, he seems to me to be a good man with good principles.
On the downside, the posts I wrote, which accurately reflect those - numerous - views of Chaim with which I completely agree, have drawn some very negative, sometimes hysterical, responses from some regular members of this forum. It looks like a sizeable proportion of their members are violently anti-religious. Some of them literally hate Judaism. You know me, I'm not exactly the most religious person in JTF although I do love Judaism and my fellow religious Jews, well, guess what, I was called "ultra-orthodox" and harshly insulted for that ! To give you an example of how far their hatred and their craziness go, I had to remind them that, according to the Halacha, a Jew is someone whose mother is Jewish or who went through a halachic conversion process. I said that they were free to have their own opinion of the rule, but that's the rule, and nobody is allowed to change it on his own initiative. They called me a Nazi and a Judenrat for saying this !! They said that anyone who says he feels Jewish is a Jew !
There are also a number of dhimmis out there who cannot stand hearing the basic truths about Islam that I remind them. They say that I incite hate and violence just because I explain to them why Muslims cannot be trusted.
To what extent these people are representative of the movement's views is hard to say, but they have been very active fighting me. The administrator, Amnon Cohen, rarely intervened to define the movement's "official" position on the issues I brought up, but on the few occasions he did, he turned out to be - carefully - supportive of me.
For the moment, I am wary of going to their meetings because I received threats for what I said. But I am definitely creating a stir by posting a lot and starting heated debates.
One good outcome is that I know for sure I am positively influencing some members there with JTF's message.
That sounds good for a start.Is that a forum or message board because some of the harsh criticisms you received may be from people who visit the board but are not active members
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2011, 07:52:29 AM »
That sounds good for a start.Is that a forum or message board because some of the harsh criticisms you received may be from people who visit the board but are not active members

It is a forum. By the way, going to their forum makes you realize how good Shlomo is, because theirs is much less attractive and convenient. In particular, it often takes many hours before your post appears on site. Obviously they don't have very skilled people running their forum.
The people who insulted me (and even threatened me) do seem to be regular active members.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2011, 07:58:03 AM »
I can't believe there is so much ignorance regarding Judaism in an organization that suppose to be Jewish. Are you sure the posters who hate Judaism and curse you think of themselves as part of "JDL France" ? Couldn't they be just forum posters ?

Offline mord

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2011, 08:09:10 AM »
MAYBE THIS IS THE REASON                             http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-daughter-as-de-demonizer-1.335743






Quote
Actually, Le Pen has already managed to forge ties with the Kahanists in France, members of the Jewish Defense League, who consider the leaders of the community “traitors who deserve to die.”
  Not that i disagree that most Jewish 'Leaders' are traitors
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 08:15:02 AM by mord »
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2011, 08:12:38 AM »
I can't believe there is so much ignorance regarding Judaism in an organization that suppose to be Jewish. Are you sure the posters who hate Judaism and curse you think of themselves as part of "JDL France" ? Couldn't they be just forum posters ?

Good question. You know what, I am going to ask directly Amnon Cohen and I'll tell you when he has answered me.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2011, 08:31:58 AM »
MAYBE THIS IS THE REASON                             http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-daughter-as-de-demonizer-1.335743



They seem rather divided about Marine Le Pen (the pig's daughter). Some of them refuse to listen to her. Others have a quite positive opinion of her because she is the only one to stand up against Muslim immigration among French politicians and because on other issues she is more right-wing than the others. But nobody seems to delude themselves into thinking that she might take courageous pro-Israel positions as Geert Wilders or Mike Huckabee did.
My take on this is that she is less bad than her father but she is certainly not a friend of Israel. At least she doesn't seem to share the pro-Arab Nazi views of her father. She wants to remain neutral on this subject. Her main concern is not to arouse tensions between communities in France.
That said, I do side with JDL France when they say they regard the official leaders of the Jewish community in France as traitors. They are indeed very bad, no better than JStreet. To give you an example, they condemned Israel during the "flotilla" incident and they invited and shook hands with Mahmud Abbas. But they refuse to talk to Marine Le Pen, although she has made gestures of good will and good intention toward the Jewish community several times, especially when she condemned her father's numerous Nazi remarks, and she has never said anything supportive of the Fakestinians as far as I know.

Offline mord

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2011, 08:42:22 AM »
They seem rather divided about Marine Le Pen (the pig's daughter). Some of them refuse to listen to her. Others have a quite positive opinion of her because she is the only one to stand up against Muslim immigration among French politicians and because on other issues she is more right-wing than the others. But nobody seems to delude themselves into thinking that she might take courageous pro-Israel positions as Geert Wilders or Mike Huckabee did.
My take on this is that she is less bad than her father but she is certainly not a friend of Israel. At least she doesn't seem to share the pro-Arab Nazi views of her father. She wants to remain neutral on this subject. Her main concern is not to arouse tensions between communities in France.
That said, I do side with JDL France when they say they regard the official leaders of the Jewish community in France as traitors. They are indeed very bad, no better than JStreet. To give you an example, they condemned Israel during the "flotilla" incident and they invited and shook hands with Mahmud Abbas. But they refuse to talk to Marine Le Pen, although she has made gestures of good will and good intention toward the Jewish community several times, especially when she condemned her father's numerous Nazi remarks, and she has never said anything supportive of the Fakestinians as far as I know.

Well most 'Jewish Leaders' are traitors.They are not elected all they are Miilionaires who elect each other
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Aces High

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2011, 09:40:51 AM »
You're a great writer!  if you decide to go to one of these meetings, you shouldn't go alone.   I would take someone with me- just in case things get out of hand.  I doubt it would- but you never know because you did receive some threats. 

I had a problem with a thief car  mechanic once, and I went down to the shop with my brother, (we didn't  go down looking for a fight),   but if one broke out,  it wouldn't be everyone against me.  Anyway, nothing happened when we went down.

Other than that, if you decide not to go, I don't think it's any big loss.

Offline cjd

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2011, 10:08:39 AM »
You're a great writer!  if you decide to go to one of these meetings, you shouldn't go alone.   I would take someone with me- just in case things get out of hand.  I doubt it would- but you never know because you did receive some threats. 

I had a problem with a thief car  mechanic once, and I went down to the shop with my brother, (we didn't  go down looking for a fight),   but if one broke out,  it wouldn't be everyone against me.  Anyway, nothing happened when we went down.

Other than that, if you decide not to go, I don't think it's any big loss.
From the sound of things I think more could be accomplished there by just debating them through the forum website then risking dangerous a personal encounter... At some point if you see there are some people that see things as you do it might be worth dropping in to meet with them.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Aces High

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 10:43:14 AM »
From the sound of things I think more could be accomplished there by just debating them through the forum website then risking dangerous a personal encounter... At some point if you see there are some people that see things as you do it might be worth dropping in to meet with them.

CJD is right.   It's not worth risking a dangerous personal encounter.

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2011, 10:46:21 AM »
It's not worth an encounter if they don't like you anyway.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2011, 03:10:15 PM »
I can't believe there is so much ignorance regarding Judaism in an organization that suppose to be Jewish. Are you sure the posters who hate Judaism and curse you think of themselves as part of "JDL France" ? Couldn't they be just forum posters ?

A.Cohen answered me : they are not activists, they are not affiliated with JDL France and do not represent the movement's position, they are just forum posters. He also said that he felt "close" to JTF's message and reiterated his wish to meet me. I fail to see on what reasonable grounds this could be a trap, the people who threatened me won't be there if he tells the truth, so I guess I'll go and meet him to know more about this organization.
Of course, I'll keep you posted - if I come back alive from the encounter  ;D. Thank you all for your advice. Also, if you have questions or suggestions, please let me know.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2011, 03:15:55 PM »
You're a great writer! 

Thank you, I appreciate. I try to do my best to disseminate the great JTF's ideas that I believe in. The credit essentially goes to Chaim, to all the great JTF posters, and, of course, to our beloved R. Meir Kahane who is always an inspiration.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2011, 03:43:04 PM »
you're a great guy, Yaacov..send them here to this forum...
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2011, 04:16:42 PM »
you're a great guy, Yaacov..send them here to this forum...

Thank you Dr Dan. Drawing them to JTF is certainly my primary purpose. Even if some of them may not write English well enough to become regular posters here, they can still listen to Ask JTF and watch Chaim's videos.

Offline mord

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2011, 04:19:22 PM »
I don't see anything risky in meeting with the leader in some restaurant
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Zelhar

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2011, 04:49:35 PM »
Yaakov do you think Schweingang/Rubin JDL are in contact with Amnon Cohen or posting in the French JDL forum ?

Offline mord

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 04:53:44 PM »
Yaakov do you think Schweingang/Rubin JDL are in contact with Amnon Cohen or posting in the French JDL forum ?
I think they might because before they closed up their forum to unregistered users they used to post complimentary vids of JDL France.It's not JDL Frances fault that they took their vids of youtube
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2011, 05:05:50 PM »
I don't see anything risky in meeting with the leader in some restaurant

True...if it's really the leader I've been talking to. I know I sound paranoid, but it's because I have received threats.
But I watched many spy movies so I have my plan : I will tell him to meet me in a public garden and ask him to wear a distinctive feature; I won't be there when he arrives, instead I will send a friend of mine; he will look around and make sure everything looks normal; I will be nearby waiting for my friend to tell me if I can show up.
What a clever dude I am... 8;) :laugh:

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2011, 05:13:46 PM »
Yaakov do you think Schweingang/Rubin JDL are in contact with Amnon Cohen or posting in the French JDL forum ?

I don't know if they are in contact with Amnon Cohen but I am almost certain they do not post in the French JDL forum, I see only Frenchies out there.
But if Weigang shows up, of course I'll whack him - her I should say, right away... :nuke:

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2011, 05:23:36 PM »
I don't know if they are in contact with Amnon Cohen but I am almost certain they do not post in the French JDL forum, I see only Frenchies out there.
But if Weigang shows up, of course I'll whack him - her I should say, right away... :nuke:

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Offline mord

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2011, 05:32:07 PM »
I don't know if they are in contact with Amnon Cohen but I am almost certain they do not post in the French JDL forum, I see only Frenchies out there.
But if Weigang shows up, of course I'll whack him - her I should say, right away... :nuke:
Well i always carry a Glock or 357 legally
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2011, 06:00:50 PM »
 I myself don't understand the idea of continuing to develop the settlements. I consider it a political mistake and would like to make it clear in this context that we must have the right to criticize the policy of the State of Israel - just as we are allowed to criticize any sovereign country - without it being considered anti-Semitism. After all, the National Front has always been Zionistic and always defended Israel's right to exist." <<

She lost me there.  Is she  just another politician who wants Israel to commit sucide but we are supposed to get excuted because she does not openly curse us.
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: An update about the JDL France
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2011, 09:24:13 AM »

Here is a new update to tell you that it's been getting much worse on their forum for the last two weeks...

You have no idea of the violence of the verbal attacks I have been exposed to. They literally hate Judaism with a passion. One of them called me a « fascist » who should be sent to jail just because I said that conversion processes to Judaism should be in accordance with the Halacha. They do not hesitate to say that Judaism makes them want to « puke » but when I criticize Islam…they are outraged ! This is simply unbelievable on a forum that is supposed to be in defence of Jews. Another one assumed for whatever reason that I was a sephardic Jew and starting saying disgusting things about the Sephardic community. Really appalling…
Moreover, they are incredibly dishonest liars, they blatantly twist my words all the time and claim I said things that I never said, and they contradict each other.
There was only one person who supported me, while there were a dozen of them hysterically opposed to me. I can tell you that I fought them back like a lion and I am proud I have done everything I can to represent JTF in the best possible manner. 

There are no moderators on this site but there is an administrator who monitors the forum on a daily basis. What worries me is that he has never stepped in to condemn and put an end to all the violent antisemitic remarks. How can he let his forum be filled with such Nazi garbage if he claims to defend the Jewish people ? He did not utter a word when they said that Judaism is nothing but a bunch of crap, that Jews lie, manipulate and whine all the time, and all kinds of other similar things… So, for the moment, I am quite sceptical about the prospects of developing fruitful ties between JTF and this organization. And I have strong reservations about going to one of their meetings after what I have witnessed for the last two weeks.