how were the jews of old seeing the heaven? (and perhaps earth as well)

[Zenith]

You know, there are people who claim that in the Tanakh it's actually said about a solid sky and heavens (or sky) with pillars, etc. (because metaphors are used, and perhaps there are even matters of translations - for firmament, etc.)

Do you know any source to tell how the jews of old were seeing the heaven/sky? And perhaps the earth as well.

[Eden Ben Yitzchak]

I think there is a good description of it, in the book ''Guide of the perplexed''.

[Zenith]

I've downloaded it, and I've read some things...

however, do you know some titles that you know it's about what I'm interested in? I've found about "the spheres", but I'm having a bit of trouble in finding "sky" (about it's composition, that it is not solid). Otherwise, perhaps I'll have to read all Part II of the book ;))

[Eden Ben Yitzchak]

You know, I'm ashamed to say that I haven't even read this masterpiece. And you know what, I will start readin' it this week! And it's all because of you!! :-) :-) :-)

[muman613]

Here are some good links on Rambams 'Guide for the Perplexed':

http://www.jewishamerica.com/ja/timeline/guideto.cfm

    Today, many scientists believe and assert that something doesn’t exist unless it can be seen, heard, smelled, or touched. While atoms fail this test, their existence can be proven indirectly, by the consequences that they cause.

    This is a belief and these scientists are people of great faith. You see, one can have faith without having a god.

    Had the Rambam lived during the 20th century, he would have probably written a book to prove the existence of the intangible aspects of Judaism using the indirect method. He would have thus demonstrated Judaism’s relevance within science. While we have no Rambam, the Association of Jewish Orthodox Scientists today does a commendable job.

    The Rambam lived during the 12th century, when reality was measured in terms of conformance to the philosophy of Aristotle. According to the Aristotelian approach, something doesn’t exist unless it can be understood. Furthermore, nothing can exist outside the laws of nature that Aristotle defined.

    The Rambam’s "Guide To The Perplexed" presents Judaism’s relevance within an Aristotelian framework. In contrast to mystical Kabbalistic writings, all of the Rambam's works reflect a rational approach to Judaism and thought.

    The Rambam does not commit Judaism to Aristotle. Therefore, Judaism and vast portions of the "Guide To The Perplexed" maintain their integrity in the 20th century, even though the Aristotelian aspects of the Guide are no longer relevant.

    This is in contrast to the Medieval Church which adopted and endorsed the Aristotelian framework. According to Aristotle, the sun revolves around the Earth. Had NASA existed during the Medieval period it would have been declared heretical. Astronauts would have been burned at the stake.
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http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/107784/jewish/Philosopher-and-Mystic.htm

Guide for the Perplexed

In this work, Rambam provides answers to the perennial questions for which the human mind ever searches: the nature and existence of G-d, the purpose of Creation, G-d and His relation to the universe, the meaning of life and human destiny, the origin and underlying reality of evil, free will, Divine Providence and Omniscience, Divine Justice, Revelation, the purpose of the precepts of the Torah, the true way of worshipping G-d, and many others.

In the countries under Islamic cultural influence, such as Egypt where Rambam lived, where Greek philosophy captured the imagination of the intelligentsia, it became popular also in certain Jewish circles. With the growing interest in the works of the ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle, especially in its Arabic garb and formulation, there arose an apparent conflict between the views of secular philosophy and certain statements and ideas expressed in the Torah and Talmudic literature. For instance, how can G-d's absolute in-corporeality and spirituality be reconciled with the anthropomorphic, human descriptions of Him in the Bible.

The philosophically oriented Jews, while firmly committed to the principles and practice of Torah Judaism, were troubled and perplexed by the seeming contradiction between reason and faith. Rambam, in his deep-felt concern for the spiritual well-being of his people, recognized the inherent danger to which such a situation might lead. This danger was especially acute among the less educated in Jewish religious thought among whom Aristotelian philosophy threatened to make serious inroads and who, as a result of the apparent inconsistencies between reason and faith, began to waver in their religious commitment.

Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon, well-versed in the teachings of the ancient and contemporary philosophers, therefore, felt himself compelled to compose a systematic presentation and exposition of the fundamental religious-philosophical principles of Judaism, which would answer the questions which agitated the philosophically oriented intellectuals, remove the doubts of the "perplexed" and enable them to continue to adhere to Torah-true Judaism. "My intention," says the Rambam in the introduction to the Guide for the Perplexed, "is to expound Biblical passages which had been impugned, and to elucidate their hidden and true meaning which when well understood, serve as a means to remove the doubts concerning anything taught in Scripture; and, indeed, many difficulties will disappear when that which I am about to explain is taken into consideration."

The Guide for the Perplexed was originally written in Arabic with Hebrew characters, and titled Dalalat al-Chairin. No sooner had the work been completed than the author was besieged with requests from various centers of Jewish scholarship for copies of his latest work, and for a Hebrew translation for the benefit of those unfamiliar with the language in which it was written. Within a decade after its appearance, two Hebrew renditions were made, one by Rabbi Shmuel ibn Tibbon and the other by Rabbi Yehudah al Charizi.

Ibn Tibbon's rendition has been accepted as the authoritative one because of its faithfulness in conveying the exact meaning of the author in all its nuances. Ibn Tibbon consulted Rambam through correspondence regarding the meaning or wording of all difficult passages. Rambam himself gave the translation his approbation, calling Ibn Tibbon the most able and fit person to discharge this task. The translation by Al Charizi, although superior as far as beauty of language and elegance of style is concerned, was lacking in precision and exactness of meaning. Rabbi Avraham, Rambam's son, expressed dissatisfaction with Al Charizi's translation because of its inaccuracy1.