Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

Is a righteous gentile saved?

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Lubab:

--- Quote from: jdl4ever on June 13, 2007, 07:30:05 PM ---Well, that's not the hell in my branch of Judaism.  The Talmud lists the punishments of certain evil people in hell and it describes actual punishments like boiling inside something and stuff like that.  Lubab, do you know which tractate this was in?

--- End quote ---

JDL4ever,

I'll try to get you sources when I have time. But you are correct that the Talmud lists certain types of punishments in physical terms becasue this is all people can understand. However,  the Talmud also states that those punishments are allegorical. Heaven and hell are spiritual "places" not physical ones. In truth the spiritual pain is much worse than physical pain and the spiritual pleasure much greater than physical pleasure-so this is not to minimize it. .But in the first kind of after-life, the one where the soul is separated from the body-the body stays here-so there cannot be hell in the physical sense that most ppl. understand it to be.

JDL4ever: read the rest of the post and you'll see what I mean.

jdl4ever:
That was a very good answer Lubab, as the Rambam says that the Torah speaks allegorically in the language that people understand.  ;D My only problem is that you don't know exactly what hell is like and you are saying things that suggest that you do know what it is like and you are inadvertently minimizing it while in fact it would be best to keep it as the Talmud describes it even if it is allegorical. 

Lubab:

--- Quote from: jdl4ever on June 13, 2007, 07:47:03 PM ---That was a good answer Lubab, as the Rambam says that the Torah speaks allegorically in the language that people understand.  My only problem is that you don't know exactly what hell is like and you are saying things that suggest that you do know what it is like and you are inadvertently minimizing it while in fact it would be best to keep it as the Talmud describes it even if it is allegorical. 

--- End quote ---

I said it's a direct perception of G-dliness, I didn't know anyone would think that's implying I know exactly what it's like. I'm flattered though  ;).

By the way the indirect quote from the Talmud is: "In the next world there is no eating and no drinking, the righteous sit with 'crowns' on their heads and take pleasure from the splendor of the Shechina" (revelation of G-d).

Lubab:
I should add that the Torah does give some examples of ways we could have a glimpse into what the next world is like. It says Torah learning is "Mein Olam Haba" a glimpse of the world to come. And it also says that Shabbos is also compared to the next world in our prayers we say after we eat. Physical suffering is like 1/60 (I beleive) of what we call hell.

(NOTE: not true for gentiles, gentiles are not allowed to keep the sabbath).

SanDiegoShana:
A related question I have as a Christian- I often wonder if G-d had one requirement for Gentiles in the book of Moses, why a different set of rules now, if G-d is unchanging, as we believe He is....are any of the promises to Abraham promises to the Gentiles?  What about the law to tithe and the promises to fill the barns, applicable to Gentiles? 

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