Is a righteous gentile saved?

[Mstislav]

To answer a previous question as well gentiles are stictly forbidden from keeping the Sabbath the way that Jews do. The penalty for doing this is death  .

Death just for that? It is not treason or serious violent crimes against society to keep the Sabbath the same way Jews do. What is the reason for that?

[Lubab]

To answer a previous question as well gentiles are stictly forbidden from keeping the Sabbath the way that Jews do. The penalty for doing this is death  .

Death just for that? It is not treason or serious violent crimes against society to keep the Sabbath the same way Jews do. What is the reason for that?

I think it's because the death penalty comes for things where a person has compeltely corrupted his misison in the world, so his life has gone so wrong that he has to go. The purpose of the Noahide is to WORK and settle the world, making it a good moral and productive place EVERY DAY. To keep the world functioning while the Jews do their job on the Shabbos.

If the gentile is acting like the Jew and resting on Shabbos, while not keeping the world moving during that time then he's totally corrupted his mission in this world, and there's pretty much no more need for him here.

[Shlomo]

I have always wondered about this. But didn't G-d tell Adam to rest on the Sabbath and Adam wasn't a Jew? I need to look that up. Maybe He just rested and didn't tell Adam.

[Lubab]

Yes but that was before the division between Jew and Noahide.

[newman]

Yes but that was before the division between Jew and Noahide.

Does that mean goyim have to work 7 days/week?

[Lubab]

Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.

[newman]

Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.

You mean NO vacation?

No day off for a family to go on a picnic?

[jdl4ever]

I don't think it's healthy to work every single day.

[MarZutra]

I believe that it is only obligatory for Jews to rest on the Sabbath while the gentile can rest whatever day they so desire as, I am given to believe, the Torah's specifities only apply to the Jews and the Gentile -  Noahide - while the rest of the Gentile are to learn HaShem's moral ways/laws from the former.  Perhaps I am wrong but that is how I understand it.

[Lubab]

Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.

You mean NO vacation?

No day off for a family to go on a picnic?

I looked into this further. Jews are like the brain, and gentiles more like the heart which always need to be pumping in order of the body to work.

The brain needs to rest and go back to it's spiritual source and this is like how Jews need Shabbos as a time to sort of detach from the world and only think about G-dly matters. Gentiles should not be doing this any day.

With that said, if a gentile want to take a vacation in order so that he will be able to be rested in order to work better then that is fine!

[newman]

Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.

You mean NO vacation?

No day off for a family to go on a picnic?

I looked into this further. Jews are like the brain, and gentiles more like the heart which always need to be pumping in order of the body to work.

The brain needs to rest and go back to it's spiritual source and this is like how Jews need Shabbos as a time to sort of detach from the world and only think about G-dly matters. Gentiles should not be doing this any day.

With that said, if a gentile want to take a vacation in order so that he will be able to be rested in order to work better then that is fine!

That being said, Lubab.....

"work" in that sense could mean having the weekend off but still gardening, cooking etc?

A gentile can still retire from his job at sixty but still "work" in some other sense like fishing, I suppose.

The prohibition against gentiles observing Shabbos (meaning 'to cease') really referrs to gentiles stopping ALL forms of work in the same manner as Jews, is that not correct?

[Lubab]

Regarding retirement, the Lubavitcher Rebbe was vehemently against the concept. For very good reason.

Maybe I can find his writings on the topic for you.

If gardening and fishing are things that help the world work better and be more productive then I suppose that's work.

One should always, in general, try to do work that you love doing. This way you are always on vacation. 

[newman]

Regarding retirement, the Lubavitcher Rebbe was vehemently against the concept. For very good reason.

Maybe I can find his writings on the topic for you.

If gardening and fishing are things that help the world work better and be more productive then I suppose that's work.

One should always, in general, try to do work that you love doing. This way you are always on vacation. 

The definition of work is tricky.

A man who accumulates $2 million by age 45 and has an independent income of $130,000/ year doesn't need to work. One could argue that his 'work' is 30 minutes/ week checking his porfolio.

Secondly, some of the prohibitions put on gentiles in torah are not contained in the Sheva Mitzvot. (Shabbos observence for example).

Do the Talmudic prohibitions on gentiles only apply in Eretz Yisrael?

[Lubab]

A man who accumulates $2 million by age 45 and has an independent income of $130,000/ year doesn't need to work. One could argue that his 'work' is 30 minutes/ week checking his porfolio.

Is that you Newman?

Anyway, such a person should still find something productive to do with the rest of his time.

Why be content with $130,000/year when you can make millions a year building on those previous successes and with those skills and send Chaim to the Knesset in no time!

Too much time on anyone's hands is not a good thing. You should always be looking to accomplish more so you can change this world for the good. There's no time it's needed for good people to have lots of money. 


The Talmudic prohibitions on gentiles apply everywhere.

[newman]

A man who accumulates $2 million by age 45 and has an independent income of $130,000/ year doesn't need to work. One could argue that his 'work' is 30 minutes/ week checking his porfolio.

Is that you Newman?

I WISH!

[Uziyahu]

The concept of an after-life isn't found in early Yahwism/"Judaism".  It isn't until the Babylonian Captivity, when the Jews become grateful to their Persian liberator, Cyrus the Great (called "Mashiach" in Isaiah), that they start to assimilate Persian Zoroastrian doctrines.

Jewish "immortality" comes through having children.

Abraham died at a ripe old age, contented and satisfied.  He did NOT die still searching for a city whose builder and maker was G-d, as the so-called "New Testament" asserts.

Just like my grandfather, who died at age 100, Abraham was ready to die.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

The concept of an after-life isn't found in early Yahwism/"Judaism".  It isn't until the Babylonian Captivity, when the Jews become grateful to their Persian liberator, Cyrus the Great (called "Mashiach" in Isaiah), that they start to assimilate Persian Zoroastrian doctrines.

Jewish "immortality" comes through having children.

Abraham died at a ripe old age, contented and satisfied.  He did NOT die still searching for a city whose builder and maker was G-d, as the so-called "New Testament" asserts.

Just like my grandfather, who died at age 100, Abraham was ready to die.

Judaism isnt just the written Torah, of course their is an after-life and we belive in it (Religious Jews). Its talked about from the Oral tradition. Anyway look at it logically- why would G-d create beings to just live in this world- most of the time struggling, etc. just to completly desroy them afterwards? 

[Uziyahu]

Oral tradition only talks about it because the concept was assimilated from foreigners, probably to keep Judaism "competitive" with foreign religions.

There is no longer a need for this false advertising, because many people no longer believe in an after-life.

It's a false hope, or at least something that can't be proven.

If there was a reward or hope of after-life, it would have been mentioned in the written Torah (if you don't like that term, which I use to differentiate a clearly DIFFERENT body of literature from the Oral Torah, then call it the Pentateuch, if you wish).

What IS mentioned OFTEN in the Tanakh, but RARELY talked about in the Oral tradition or modern Judaism, from what I've observed, is SHEOL. 

What is sheol?  It's where you are DEAD.

Apologies, but that's the TRUTH of the Tanakh.  Believe what you want, but the evidence is on MY side of the argument.

[Shlomo]

I really suggest you read:

Soul Searching (Seeking Scientific Ground For The Jewish Tradition Of An Afterlife)
Author: Yaakov Astor
Publisher: Feldheim Publishers, 2003
ISBN: 1568712499
http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=1-56871-249-9

For over two centuries, scientists have denied or ignored the possiblity of an afterlife. Now, however, research has taken an unexpected turn, finding compelling evidence of the existence of life after death and the human soul. This beautifully written, well documented book compares ancient Jewish teachings, and contemporary research on the subject of the afterlife. It is a fascinating, valuable, and insightful contribution to Jewish literature.

And another good one but, seriously, read the one above...

Jewish Views of the Afterlife
Author: Simcha Paull Raphael
Publisher: Jason Aronson, Friday, March 01, 1996
ISBN: 1568219385

In Jewish Views of the Afterlife, Simcha Paull Raphael guides the reader through 4,000 years of Jewish thought on the afterlife by investigating pertinent sacred texts produced in each era. Through a compilation of ideas found in the Bible, Rabbinic literature, medieval philosophy, Midrash, Kabbalah, and Hasidism, the reader learns how Judaism conceived of the fate of the individual after death throughout Jewish history.

But does an afterlife even exist? What role does it play in Jewish theology? While many affirm a belief in the afterlife, a scarce few are aware of where these teachings can be found in Jewish literature.

Once you read that first one, you can't help but think about the afterlife. I know because I used to believe like you.

[Dominater96]

I should add that the Torah does give some examples of ways we could have a glimpse into what the next world is like. It says Torah learning is "Mein Olam Haba" a glimpse of the world to come. And it also says that Shabbos is also compared to the next world in our prayers we say after we eat. Physical suffering is like 1/60 (I beleive) of what we call hell.

(NOTE: not true for gentiles, gentiles are not allowed to keep the sabbath).

They are also not allowed to learn torah or as some call it "the old testement", as Rambam says in Hilchot melachim Perek 10, halacha 9

[Dominater96]

Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.

Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?

Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!

Well, no the Talmud is not different.

It says in the Rabbinic commentaries that every detail of Judaism is included in those 10 commandments. (It even says that all 613 commandments are included in the first two commandments!) Those 10 are the general framework and the 613 give you the details.

All the knowledge of the Talmud was given on Sinai along with those 10 commandments to Moses. That knowledge was not a new thing that started when the Talmud was written down. That knowledge of the details of how to put the Torah into practice was handed down in an oral chain for 40 generations by the greatest Jewish leaders and scholars. Eventually those teachings were written down and that's why we have the written Talmud.

But really it's all only ONE Torah. You can't have the oral Torah without the written and you can't have the written Torah without the oral commentary. It's all the same thing, only differnet parts were handed down to us different ways. There are specifics and generalities, but it's all one Torah.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to help in any way I can. And "Amein" to that blessing!

Ramban says that all of the mitzvot are in 1 mitzvah. I think they talk about in Masechet megillah daf 19. Also somewhere else in berachot they talk about it.

[Dominater96]

Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.

You mean NO vacation?

No day off for a family to go on a picnic?

Rashi in Sanhedrin 58B says that not only is a gentile not allwoed to designate a day, as a day of rest, but he is also not allowed to take a day off of work to relax. Meiri disagrees- he says they are not allowed to designate a day of rest, but can take vacation. Rambam agrees with Meiri. Lubab, do you think that christians are going against this by designating sunday as their day of rest?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.

Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?

Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!

Well, no the Talmud is not different.

It says in the Rabbinic commentaries that every detail of Judaism is included in those 10 commandments. (It even says that all 613 commandments are included in the first two commandments!) Those 10 are the general framework and the 613 give you the details.

All the knowledge of the Talmud was given on Sinai along with those 10 commandments to Moses. That knowledge was not a new thing that started when the Talmud was written down. That knowledge of the details of how to put the Torah into practice was handed down in an oral chain for 40 generations by the greatest Jewish leaders and scholars. Eventually those teachings were written down and that's why we have the written Talmud.

But really it's all only ONE Torah. You can't have the oral Torah without the written and you can't have the written Torah without the oral commentary. It's all the same thing, only differnet parts were handed down to us different ways. There are specifics and generalities, but it's all one Torah.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to help in any way I can. And "Amein" to that blessing!

Ramban says that all of the mitzvot are in 1 mitzvah. I think they talk about in Masechet megillah daf 19. Also somewhere else in berachot they talk about it.

Are you talking about something that goes like- " the Tzaddik lives by his faith" - a Prohet said that, I think Habakuk. - BUT thats also something that is used by christians and some who want to get ride of Mitzvot, and say you see one only needs faith. But when reading the statement correctly one will see- it says the TZADDIK lives by his faith, and who is a Tzaddik? one who follows all of the Torah.

[Dominater96]

Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.

You mean NO vacation?

No day off for a family to go on a picnic?

With that said, if a gentile want to take a vacation in order so that he will be able to be rested in order to work better then that is fine!

Rashi disagrees with this

[Dominater96]

Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.

Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?

Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!

Well, no the Talmud is not different.

It says in the Rabbinic commentaries that every detail of Judaism is included in those 10 commandments. (It even says that all 613 commandments are included in the first two commandments!) Those 10 are the general framework and the 613 give you the details.

All the knowledge of the Talmud was given on Sinai along with those 10 commandments to Moses. That knowledge was not a new thing that started when the Talmud was written down. That knowledge of the details of how to put the Torah into practice was handed down in an oral chain for 40 generations by the greatest Jewish leaders and scholars. Eventually those teachings were written down and that's why we have the written Talmud.

But really it's all only ONE Torah. You can't have the oral Torah without the written and you can't have the written Torah without the oral commentary. It's all the same thing, only differnet parts were handed down to us different ways. There are specifics and generalities, but it's all one Torah.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to help in any way I can. And "Amein" to that blessing!

Ramban says that all of the mitzvot are in 1 mitzvah. I think they talk about in Masechet megillah daf 19. Also somewhere else in berachot they talk about it.

Are you talking about something that goes like- " the Tzaddik lives by his faith" - a Prohet said that, I think Habakuk. - BUT thats also something that is used by christians and some who want to get ride of Mitzvot, and say you see one only needs faith. But when reading the statement correctly one will see- it says the TZADDIK lives by his faith, and who is a Tzaddik? one who follows all of the Torah.

Nope, ill go get a gemara, I learned this a couple weeks back with my Havruta, gotta refresh my memory.