Author Topic: Big Pharma Does Not Care (Read 1642 times)

ProJews_Chinese · « **on:** April 27, 2011, 09:07:15 AM »

(Well, at least in some way ... )

Gwen Olsen, a former Big Pharma representative, claims the purpose of Big Pharma is wealth, not health:

Her website:

http://www.gwenolsen.com/

I guess we are all guinea pig ...

Rubystars · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2011, 01:34:05 PM »

I believe her but what concerns me about this is that there could be people who watch this and then go into equally dangerous "alternative" treatments. So I would add a word of caution about that. I always try to look up info about new medicines before I take them, and sometimes based on that I decide not to take them.

lines · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2011, 12:06:05 AM »

Great video

ProJews_Chinese · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2011, 08:59:19 AM »

A universal antidote you should be aware of: activated charcoal. This is the first-aid kit to most poisoning, such as drug poisoning.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2011, 07:27:08 PM »

Big pharma and alternative pharma are both not to be trusted.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2011, 07:42:18 PM »

You can say about any company in any industry that their #1 goal is to make money. That is the only way their business continues and in of itself there is nothing wrong with making money.
But pharma companies have an added incentive to stay afloat and/or keep making money - this will enable them to keep helping more patients by having money to fund further research into new treatments.

Most pharma companies (probably all) have the goal to help patients and develop a successful business out of it. These things are not by definition mutually exclusive!

muman613 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2011, 12:42:09 AM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on April 28, 2011, 07:42:18 PM

You can say about any company in any industry that their #1 goal is to make money. That is the only way their business continues and in of itself there is nothing wrong with making money.
But pharma companies have an added incentive to stay afloat and/or keep making money - this will enable them to keep helping more patients by having money to fund further research into new treatments.

Most pharma companies (probably all) have the goal to help patients and develop a successful business out of it. These things are not by definition mutually exclusive!

KWRBT,

I understand your position but I must again disagree with you on this. Yes, you argue that all companies are in business to make money... This is certainly true. But what the problem with big pharama is is that they have established an unholy alliance with doctors who are pushing these drugs.

I know from experience that here in California they want to push pills to me. Pills I really don't need, nor do I want to take. I can get any pain medication... I was given Oxycontin and Codeine at $15 a jar... It is easy to get addicted to these drugs, and I know people who have become addicted... But the doctors are getting kick-backs from the drug companies.

I know that they get the drug posters and 'information' books straight from the pharma companies. Once I had to go pay my bill to my 'pain doctor' here and in the back office there were huge promotional posters which said 'ask your doctor about xxxyy' and all the slick marketing which goes with trying to influence a person to ask for a drug.

If it is legal to push drugs like these, it should be legal to push heroin, lsd, cocaine, and pot... The addiction to legal pain medicine is a real problem and I know it is due to the unholy alliance between doctors and pharma companies...

This is worse than someone in business who is trying to make money by advertising. It is more like a drug dealer trying to push his powder and pills.

Relentless Partisan · « **Reply #7 on:** April 29, 2011, 07:23:42 AM »

i also believe her,i am not so sure that there are more benefits for taking prescription drugs than harms that this drugs do.as she is saying,it is an industry that cares about more and more income rather than cares about each persons health,and the more ones addicted to a substance the better the income for the company,this is clearly a conflict of interests much like the palestinians and Israelis (the palestinians being the pharma companies).
i posted an issue here just a few days ago saying JTFers should eat healthy food with a detailed video attached:
http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,54978.msg504156.html#msg504156
i also PM'd Chaim because i know how he loves vegetables and fruits.
http://www.naturalhealthstrategies.com/food-as-medicine.html
does anybody see this movie?i highly urge you to see this one,my assumption is that in 2 hours of watching you will add several months or years to your total life,not a bad deal hey?
this is the key to avoid the need of drugs and doctors appointments ,G_d already invented a cure for everyone of us and it is in our food,we just have to feel what our body lack of and what we exaggerate in consuming.

Rubystars · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2011, 04:00:28 PM »

Well the food industry isn't really that good of an industry either. They put ingredients in the food to make people more hungry or crave more food so they'll buy more food.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2011, 06:39:10 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 29, 2011, 12:42:09 AM

KWRBT,

I understand your position but I must again disagree with you on this. Yes, you argue that all companies are in business to make money... This is certainly true. But what the problem with big pharama is is that they have established an unholy alliance with doctors who are pushing these drugs.

What you are saying doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Doctors are of course the ones who prescribe medicine, and it is in their interest to provide the best available treatments, which would be the drugs that have gone through rigorous testing and review and had successful phase 3 clinical trials and/or a proven track record. What else are doctors supposed to prescribe? Imaginary pills that don't exist yet? Magic beans?
Who else is pharma supposed to have an alliance with if not the people who will prescribe their medicines. Should they have instead an alliance with farmers? With rabbis? What are you talking about?

Quote

I know from experience that here in California they want to push pills to me. Pills I really don't need, nor do I want to take. I can get any pain medication... I was given Oxycontin and Codeine at $15 a jar... It is easy to get addicted to these drugs, and I know people who have become addicted... But the doctors are getting kick-backs from the drug companies.

I know that they get the drug posters and 'information' books straight from the pharma companies. Once I had to go pay my bill to my 'pain doctor' here and in the back office there were huge promotional posters which said 'ask your doctor about xxxyy' and all the slick marketing which goes with trying to influence a person to ask for a drug.

Again you make no sense with what you say. EVERY treatment option has potential risks and side effects and a good doctor will inform you of these, but moreso the federal govt mandates that they are reported in detail on any package of the medication and you will not find any approved medication with an information sheet in the package explaining these things. And if you prefer some other pain medication, you can ask your doctor to prescribe it and he will. And if you don't want to take pain medication then simply don't take, no one can force you!

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If it is legal to push drugs like these, it should be legal to push heroin, lsd, cocaine, and pot... The addiction to legal pain medicine is a real problem and I know it is due to the unholy alliance between doctors and pharma companies...

This is worse than someone in business who is trying to make money by advertising. It is more like a drug dealer trying to push his powder and pills.

Powders and pills that have shown documented and reproducible success in treating various ailments. It has nothing to do with cocaine or lsd which people take in order to get high. You really are expressing some kind of emotional and irrational fantasy here.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #10 on:** April 29, 2011, 06:42:12 PM »

Btw kickbacks are illegal and marketing proven treatments is not wrong, its smart and effective business . If you have a product that works, why would you not promote it to achieve the greatest number of sales of this product to the market which is in need of that treatment?

muman613 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 29, 2011, 06:59:49 PM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on April 29, 2011, 06:42:12 PM

Btw kickbacks are illegal and marketing proven treatments is not wrong, its smart and effective business . If you have a product that works, why would you not promote it to achieve the greatest number of sales of this product to the market which is in need of that treatment?

Not true... Many times these drugs have been shown to have adverse side effects which were hidden from clinical studies and reports...

Your trust of doctors is naive, IMO... You suppose they really have the desire to cure you of your problem, when in truth they simply want to bilk your insurance and get you hooked on drugs. You may not agree, but I have tons of experience in this, and nothing you say will refute it.

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #12 on:** April 29, 2011, 07:10:03 PM »

KWRBT, I agree with everything you are saying.

I think Muman's concern are the unethical doctors who work with unethical reps of some of these drug companies.

And some drug companies advertise their drugs on TV to tell consumers to ask their doctors about taking certain pills. I hope the doctor they go and see don't just prescribe a certain pill because their patients want it...Unfortunately, with the crappy reimbursement rates of many insurance companies, doctors have to have high volume practices and rarely spend time with listening to their patients and just prescribe prescribe prescribe to get rid of the symptoms, but never really stop the cause of the problems.

The physicians (or dentists) that sit and spend time and explain things to the patients are now a rare breed. It's hard to find a good health professional that really cares and answers your questions..but this is what you get with crappy reimbursements and an influx of illegal aliens...no time, no incentive by the physician and little appreciation from patients.

Fortunately, myself and my family who are all some type of doctor or dentist are that rare breed, thank Gd. Great bedside manner goes a long way.

But as far are pharmaceutical companies are concerned, that's capitalism. Better drugs come with better business...

however, as with all capitalism, a strong sense of business ethics need to be exercised. In my opinion, completely inappropriate to put commercial ads for medications.

muman613 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 29, 2011, 07:15:16 PM »

Quote from: Dr. Dan on April 29, 2011, 07:10:03 PM

KWRBT, I agree with everything you are saying.

I think Muman's concern are the unethical doctors who work with unethical reps of some of these drug companies.

And some drug companies advertise their drugs on TV to tell consumers to ask their doctors about taking certain pills. I hope the doctor they go and see don't just prescribe a certain pill because their patients want it...Unfortunately, with the crappy reimbursement rates of many insurance companies, doctors have to have high volume practices and rarely spend time with listening to their patients and just prescribe prescribe prescribe to get rid of the symptoms, but never really stop the cause of the problems.

The physicians (or dentists) that sit and spend time and explain things to the patients are now a rare breed. It's hard to find a good health professional that really cares and answers your questions..but this is what you get with crappy reimbursements and an influx of illegal aliens...no time, no incentive by the physician and little appreciation from patients.

Fortunately, myself and my family who are all some type of doctor or dentist are that rare breed, thank Gd. Great bedside manner goes a long way.

But as far are pharmaceutical companies are concerned, that's capitalism. Better drugs come with better business...

however, as with all capitalism, a strong sense of business ethics need to be exercised. In my opinion, completely inappropriate to put commercial ads for medications.

You are right Dr. Dan... My issue is not with the doctors, who as you explain are in a very difficult position, but with drug companies who are working with doctors to sell their drugs. If there was a fire-wall between them I would have more trust. But as it is I see the health-care industry as a form of drug pushing demon.

It is good that I was able to get pain meds... But the other problem I had was a crappy doctor who misdiagnosed my health issue. For five years I was given drugs which did nothing to cure my problem and may have been detrimental to my health. And I was also given many, many pain pills... The Norcos and Oxycontins are good... But they continued to want me to get them even when I didn't need them any more.

I am pissed off at the doctor who misdiagnosed me... I also know that others have had similar issues with doctors..

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #14 on:** April 29, 2011, 07:19:45 PM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 29, 2011, 07:15:16 PM

You are right Dr. Dan... My issue is not with the doctors, who as you explain are in a very difficult position, but with drug companies who are working with doctors to sell their drugs. If there was a fire-wall between them I would have more trust. But as it is I see the health-care industry as a form of drug pushing demon.

It is good that I was able to get pain meds... But the other problem I had was a crappy doctor who misdiagnosed my health issue. For five years I was given drugs which did nothing to cure my problem and may have been detrimental to my health. And I was also given many, many pain pills... The Norcos and Oxycontins are good... But they continued to want me to get them even when I didn't need them any more.

I am pissed off at the doctor who misdiagnosed me... I also know that others have had similar issues with doctors..

For what it's worth, it your health at hand and your life and health should be considered invaluable. I know some of us go through tough times and cannot afford a good doctor or health insurance. My suggestion is that next time there is a medical problem, just think how valuable your health and life is and forget the HMO plan you have. Ask people for recommendations to a good doctor in your area..ideally if they do take your plan...because some of those doctors still have good bedside manner...but I tell you, it's worth paying even a little more for someone who cares about you and knows what they are doing...the same goes with any health professional in my opinion.

Relentless Partisan · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2011, 11:14:39 PM »

Quote

Well the food industry isn't really that good of an industry either. They put ingredients in the food to make people more hungry or crave more food so they'll buy more food.

you are absolutely right RubyStars ,but apparently you haven't seen the movie yet,it is talking about how to avoid industrialized food as much as we can.
G_d has created enough food in its natural form,we don't need to rely on industry of mankind for our diet.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:42:55 AM »

Quote from: muman613 on April 29, 2011, 06:59:49 PM

Not true... Many times these drugs have been shown to have adverse side effects which were hidden from clinical studies and reports...

Many times? Really, in what country?

Hidden from reports or simply not known until later? Nobody is trying to poison people with medicines!

Quote

Your trust of doctors is naive, IMO...

You obviously did not read any of my other posts in this thread. When there is an INFORMATION SHEET and publicly available research as well, detailing not only the effectiveness of the treatment you are being given but also all of its potential side effects and warnings for proper usage, there is no need to trust anyone. The doctor is doing his best to give you the best treatment for the problem with which YOU CAME TO HIM seeking medicine. When he prescribes something, you are free to ask for something else, or look at the label, read the information sheet, and even decide not to take it and say you're going home. Nobody is forcing you to take medicine.

There is nothing naive about clinical studies which prove the effectiveness of treatments.

Quote

You suppose they really have the desire to cure you of your problem, when in truth they simply want to bilk your insurance and get you hooked on drugs. You may not agree, but I have tons of experience in this, and nothing you say will refute it.

Bilk your insurance? Explain what that means, please.

Get you hooked on drugs? Because you asked for pain medication and they prescribed you some, and then you took very dangerous pain meds without reading the label about its dangers?!

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:44:57 AM »

Quote from: Dr. Dan on April 29, 2011, 07:10:03 PM

however, as with all capitalism, a strong sense of business ethics need to be exercised. In my opinion, completely inappropriate to put commercial ads for medications.

I don't understand why you think that. Does Cheerios not advertise the fact that "as part of a healthy and balanced diet" their cereal helps reduce cholesterol, after that was proven scientifically? They certainly do advertise that all over their boxes, and they would be suckers if they didn't. Same with medications.

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:15:22 AM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on May 01, 2011, 12:44:57 AM

I don't understand why you think that. Does Cheerios not advertise the fact that "as part of a healthy and balanced diet" their cereal helps reduce cholesterol, after that was proven scientifically? They certainly do advertise that all over their boxes, and they would be suckers if they didn't. Same with medications.

Cherrios are not precription medications. You don't get side effects from eating them. Advil or other over the counter medications are fine to advertise. I'm talking about precription medications.

Rubystars · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2011, 10:35:27 AM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on May 01, 2011, 12:44:57 AM

I don't understand why you think that. Does Cheerios not advertise the fact that "as part of a healthy and balanced diet" their cereal helps reduce cholesterol, after that was proven scientifically? They certainly do advertise that all over their boxes, and they would be suckers if they didn't. Same with medications.

That's a little different. When it comes to prescription drugs the drugs should be marketed to Doctors as the best treatment for a particular ailment and not to patients directly. Patients impressed by a flashy ad shouldn't be going to their doctors asking for a particular drug which may or may not be the right choice for them. Sometimes a different drug than the one that was in the ad might be the best for them but they don't have the medical education to know that.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:46:51 PM »

Quote from: Rubystars on May 01, 2011, 10:35:27 AM

That's a little different. When it comes to prescription drugs the drugs should be marketed to Doctors as the best treatment for a particular ailment and not to patients directly. Patients impressed by a flashy ad shouldn't be going to their doctors asking for a particular drug which may or may not be the right choice for them. Sometimes a different drug than the one that was in the ad might be the best for them but they don't have the medical education to know that.

Making patients aware of treatment options is not a bad thing. They still have to clear it with the doctor, get his input, permission, and prescription so there is no difference.

The doctor is not just going to say oh u asked for that sure ill give u even tho it has nothing to do with your condition. And what moron is going to want to take a medicine if they don't have the ailment it treats.

There are cholesterol drugs PROVEN to lower cholesterol levels. If a person with high cholesterol (and he only knows this from his doctor telling him) wants a medication to lower his cholesterol, the fact that he is made aware of the options or that there are options is a good thing. Its always his own decision whether he is willing to risk potential side effects from any medication which are made clear.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #21 on:** May 01, 2011, 12:49:35 PM »

Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 01, 2011, 08:15:22 AM

Cherrios are not precription medications. You don't get side effects from eating them. Advil or other over the counter medications are fine to advertise. I'm talking about precription medications.

But you haven't given any reason why that difference has any relevance in this context. Even the side effects are made known in the commercials. Don't you ever watch TV? I'm sure you've seen commercials for medicines.

I really don't understand why a company selling a proven medical treatment can't advertise its product but every other industry can advertise theirs. Making a commercial does not allow anyone to buy the drug without prescription.

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #22 on:** May 01, 2011, 04:32:21 PM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on May 01, 2011, 12:49:35 PM

But you haven't given any reason why that difference has any relevance in this context. Even the side effects are made known in the commercials. Don't you ever watch TV? I'm sure you've seen commercials for medicines.

I really don't understand why a company selling a proven medical treatment can't advertise its product but every other industry can advertise theirs. Making a commercial does not allow anyone to buy the drug without prescription.

I think rubystars made a fine point. It's more appropriate for pharmaceuticals to advertise to doctors.

My problem with a lot of the medical community in the states is that people are over medicated. Granted some people need it to live. Others, however, have to change their behaviors leading to their ailments. Many doctors here just give pills rather than attack the real problems.

Remember the ADHD craze? Every other child was being misdiagnosed with ADHD and given medication when many of then really needed discipline to control their behavior.

There are people who get depressed or anxious and get drugs to calm their feelings when they could get by fine with a therapist and behavioral modification. Some people are truely clinically depressed and have real chemical imbalances. Those patients need those drugs. I worry that someone who is just depressed or anxious like all normally get once in awhile will rely in a drug to help them when it is really boost of self esteem or a friend will solve the problem.

Americans are overly medicated and in my opinion too many if them rely on medications to solve their problems.

Kahane-Was-Right BT · « **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:00:43 PM »

Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 01, 2011, 04:32:21 PM

I think rubystars made a fine point. It's more appropriate for pharmaceuticals to advertise to doctors.

They certainly do that, trying to draw attention to their research papers which describe the success of their treatments in the clinic. This does seem the more direct way to advertise, but that doesn't preclude also advertising to the public which is afflicted with the ailments their product(s) treat, even if it's less "appropriate" or in more accurate terms, less effective marketing.

Quote

My problem with a lot of the medical community in the states is that people are over medicated. Granted some people need it to live. Others, however, have to change their behaviors leading to their ailments. Many doctors here just give pills rather than attack the real problems.

None of this is the fault of pharmaceutical companies or their advertising efforts.

I agree with you that too many people rely on medications rather than changing to healthier living habits (and doing so EARLY in life, not when it's already too late!), but there is still a need for medical treatments, there is a market for it, and every company wants to maximize how many of the individuals in need of their product will actually purchase their product. That is the goal of advertising.

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:54:15 PM »

Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on May 01, 2011, 05:00:43 PM

They certainly do that, trying to draw attention to their research papers which describe the success of their treatments in the clinic. This does seem the more direct way to advertise, but that doesn't preclude also advertising to the public which is afflicted with the ailments their product(s) treat, even if it's less "appropriate" or in more accurate terms, less effective marketing.

None of this is the fault of pharmaceutical companies or their advertising efforts.

I agree with you that too many people rely on medications rather than changing to healthier living habits (and doing so EARLY in life, not when it's already too late!), but there is still a need for medical treatments, there is a market for it, and every company wants to maximize how many of the individuals in need of their product will actually purchase their product. That is the goal of advertising.

In my opinion, while there is a right to advertise, it is unethical to advertise straight to the consumer. I, would be really annoyed as a periodontist if implant companies put up commercials telling consumers to tell their dentists what implants to put in their mouths. That is unethical. I feel the same way about this with percription medications.