My gripe with the jtf forum

[Shlomo]

I don't think it is right to justify membership to a group to judge them. Maybe we can do it with Islam because we know what is written in the Koran.  Maybe we can do it with a specific church or synogogue..or political group... But to a nation or a race...i dn't think it is right.

What does the Bible say about the Canaanites, Amorites, and the Medianites? These are races.

[Dr. Dan]

I don't think it is right to justify membership to a group to judge them. Maybe we can do it with Islam because we know what is written in the Koran.  Maybe we can do it with a specific church or synogogue..or political group... But to a nation or a race...i dn't think it is right.

What does the Bible say about the Canaanites, Amorites, and the Medianites? These are races.

Thought that cannanites, amorites, midianites, amalekites, edomites, israelites were all nations...

race is a genetic thing...like Hindus, Asian, African, Caucasian

[kahaneloyalist]

And she had a lasp of stupidity comparing chaim to Osama..

Could you please provide a link to where she wrote this, and as far as I am concerned anyone who says such a thing can go to hell.

[Dr. Dan]

And she had a lasp of stupidity comparing chaim to Osama..

Could you please provide a link to where she wrote this, and as far as I am concerned anyone who says such a thing can go to hell.

go on page 3 or 4 on the Osama thread right below this one..she actually does do a comparison that is really muffed up...and it pissed off everyone...

except i kind of knew what she was getting at..just poorly executed..that's why i said she had a lasp of stupidity...as you can see, I don't get angry very easily.

[Imerica]

Listen, Imerica is a crack whore. I bet when she is not calling Chaim a criminal and supporting Osama she is selling herself to big shvartza beasts. Dannycookies, we need to be cruel to our enemies. You should be praising Jimmy not finding stupid things to pick his brain with.

imerica looks like  a crack whore, but she isn't one..highly unlikely.
she does not support osama bin ladin
she doesn't sell herself to big black men

we DO however need to be cruel to our enemies...but our enemies are PLO, Fata, Hamas, Ahmednejad, Muslims, anyone who is anti-Jewish or anti-Israel, anyone is anti-west, nazis...

Imerica just sounds annoying, being cruel to her only makes her stronger and sound more right than people like us...unfortunately. If ever watch Rabbi Meir Kahane...oh, he's so good on teh way he responds to his critics...we should learn to be argue like him in eloquent fashion...nto calling people liek Imerica crackwhores. That kind of talk will not take us far.

I'm going to agree with all but one part of this post. I don't look like a crackwhore, danny. But I can get kind of annoying. I'm not a team player. I sometimes veer off to the side in an effort to make myself clear, but fail miserably at it. That's why I apologize a lot for my misunderstandings here.

I honestly think that if Allen and judea hadn't invited me here to ask Chaim questions, I wouldn't have come. But I'm here now, in the middle of the wolf den, speaking my mind. Oh, well.

I've called people names here after I've been called names but I still did what I speak out against. I let some of you get so deep under my skin that I don't see you as people in cyber space but like people I'd meet on the street. And I just want to say that I'm elated that I haven't met some of you. lol Who knows what that meeting would be like? Fisticuffs all over the place.

[Imerica]

I asked her to condemn these leaders and she refused. She certainly did not refuse to condemn Chaim or Alan Keyes.

I don't like being commanded to do something. I've been raised already and don't need another mother or father for that matter to demand me to do or say anything. However I've said over and over again that I don't support those so-called leaders even before you called me out to denounce them. I wouldn't vote for them, I wouldn't support their cause (because the entire cause has been lost due to their ignorance and vile attitudes toward Jewish people). I DID retract a statement I made about Farrakhan when I found out that while he attended some of the events for job programs, he didn't do anything in that relm to help anyone. Nor does Sharpton. Jackson is the lesser of the three evils but his racism makes him just as guilty, dispite the fact that his organization sponsors job fairs in the black community. I just don't like them...and I don't have to. And I really don't have to like Chaim or Alan Keyes either.

[Allen-T]

I just read what Jimmy wrote about Imerica. It is 100% correct. Danny, are you a miggerlover now?

didn't i say i loved good black people?  

I gave you a point when I wrote that, by the way.

[Lisa]

I agree with Danny.  We need to be clearer on why we dislike certain groups of people, and emphasize that it's not due to the color of their skin, but their actions. 

Calling Erica names is pointless, and only makes us look bad, especially since she's been polite on this forum.  So if you disagree with her, use facts to back up your assertions. 

[pbc]

I too agree with danny (thinking of changing my nick to D.C.57.F  )
Remember the story of Abraham, defending the people of Sdom and Amora, just because there might be
a small hint of righteous Zadikim in there.

About the foul language. I don't want to sound like a 2nd grade teacher, but, people use bad language
(*Imerica probably has a child out of wedlock*, etc.) when they don't have any real or relevant thing to say.

[Masha]

On the one hand, I do agree with dannycookie57 that one should hate and denounce a certain reprehensible behavior, not a group of people. On the other, the fact that a certain group of people exhibits a given behavior disproportionately is significant in itself. And somehow it has to be addressed. I'm thinking of arabs, for example. It's hard for me to feel love towards them, although I try to be fair-minded.

[TheCoon]

God bless you, dannycookie. You took the words right outta my mouth.

[Until Shiloh Comes]

Basically we talk like Chaim talks..and we shouldn't talk like Chaim because we aren't Chaim and Chaim can only be Chaim because he can defend what he says and admit when he is wrong when he realizes he's wrong.  Anyone else who tries to be like him, just gets frustrated when Imerica steps in...My answer is, don't be Chaim.   

Hello dannycookie57, and good day to you.

I've read over the original thread and question, and I see points in what both you and Jimmy are asserting. I too get disheartened when I see some of the language used by the forum members when it comes to Imerica, and others, and I feel as if stronger cases could be made without the constant need for diatribe. I believe Jimmy is correct in his conclusion that Imerica will ultimately be an enemy to the cause, but I personally believe in my heart that Imerica has been brainwashed to such a degree, and is so dominated and driven by her emotions, that it would be virtually impossible to change her mind on any issue. Her views aren't rooted in a conscious malice, and that needs to be acknowledged.

Facts aren't what ultimately form her ideas, they're secondary to her. What she believes is right via her own personal set of moral principles is her ultimate and final appeal. In this respect, she shares a common trait with many women (no offense to the ladies of the forum) who likewise tend to form their opinion based on emotion, personality, and other abstract things. In a case like this if you wish to change her mind (which I believe is impossible) it has to be without rancor and with kindness, otherwise she will psychologically disregard you. If you don't wish to change her mind and just wish to refute her then it must be with steady cold facts; constantly rebutting her strawmen and tangent arguments for the sake of the readers.

Danny, ultimately I think you offered a great piece of advice in the portion I quoted. None of us are Chaim, and it's high time some individuals stop trying to write like he speaks regardless of the setting or context. Chaim, and Rav Kahane ZT"L always considered context, and used different language for different situations. Chaim's shows consist of strong rhetoric and fiery language to move and rally people to action, and draw attention. Likewise Kahane's speeches in Hebrew in Israel were also similar in their blistering oratory. But look at Kahane on American television interviews, and it's a different story -- he was calm, charismatic, and smooth. Look at Chaim Ben Pesach on the 'Save Israel' show with Charlie Bernhaut available on Allen-T's SamanthaTheCat account -- he was completely different there because Chaim, unlike some here, appreciates context. He was cool, calm, and collected, and dominated the format like a seasoned spokesperson. I encourage everyone here to watch those videos of Chaim, and take a lesson from there, myself included.

[Dr. Dan]

G-d bless you, dannycookie. You took the words right outta my mouth.

No, Gd bless you, thuderbolt!

[Dr. Dan]

You wrote all that just to get promoted, didn't you! 

Thanks for the comforting post.

Basically we talk like Chaim talks..and we shouldn't talk like Chaim because we aren't Chaim and Chaim can only be Chaim because he can defend what he says and admit when he is wrong when he realizes he's wrong.  Anyone else who tries to be like him, just gets frustrated when Imerica steps in...My answer is, don't be Chaim.   

Hello dannycookie57, and good day to you.

I've read over the original thread and question, and I see points in what both you and Jimmy are asserting. I too get disheartened when I see some of the language used by the forum members when it comes to Imerica, and others, and I feel as if stronger cases could be made without the constant need for diatribe. I believe Jimmy is correct in his conclusion that Imerica will ultimately be an enemy to the cause, but I personally believe in my heart that Imerica has been brainwashed to such a degree, and is so dominated and driven by her emotions, that it would be virtually impossible to change her mind on any issue. Her views aren't rooted in a conscious malice, and that needs to be acknowledged.

Facts aren't what ultimately form her ideas, they're secondary to her. What she believes is right via her own personal set of moral principles is her ultimate and final appeal. In this respect, she shares a common trait with many women (no offense to the ladies of the forum) who likewise tend to form their opinion based on emotion, personality, and other abstract things. In a case like this if you wish to change her mind (which I believe is impossible) it has to be without rancor and with kindness, otherwise she will psychologically disregard you. If you don't wish to change her mind and just wish to refute her then it must be with steady cold facts; constantly rebutting her strawmen and tangent arguments for the sake of the readers.

Danny, ultimately I think you offered a great piece of advice in the portion I quoted. None of us are Chaim, and it's high time some individuals stop trying to write like he speaks regardless of the setting or context. Chaim, and Rav Kahane ZT"L always considered context, and used different language for different situations. Chaim's shows consist of strong rhetoric and fiery language to move and rally people to action, and draw attention. Likewise Kahane's speeches in Hebrew in Israel were also similar in their blistering oratory. But look at Kahane on American television interviews, and it's a different story -- he was calm, charismatic, and smooth. Look at Chaim Ben Pesach on the 'Save Israel' show with Charlie Bernhaut available on Allen-T's SamanthaTheCat account -- he was completely different there because Chaim, unlike some here, appreciates context. He was cool, calm, and collected, and dominated the format like a seasoned spokesperson. I encourage everyone here to watch those videos of Chaim, and take a lesson from there, myself included.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Thought that cannanites, amorites, midianites, amalekites, edomites, israelites were all nations...

race is a genetic thing...like Hindus, Asian, African, Caucasian

Danny, we all meant nations. Nobody here literally categorizes people on appearance. Blacks as a ethnic group (ethnicity=culture) are evil, not blacks as a phenotype.

[Dr. Dan]

Thought that cannanites, amorites, midianites, amalekites, edomites, israelites were all nations...

race is a genetic thing...like Hindus, Asian, African, Caucasian

Danny, we all meant nations. Nobody here literally categorizes people on appearance. Blacks as a ethnic group (ethnicity=culture) are evil, not blacks as a phenotype.

I know that jtf doesn't stand for judging people based on their phenotypes...We know that doing that is a sin and that we judge cultures based on good and evil..

However, lay people don't know that...they don't understand it..and I know that when we post about blacks we don't mean dark skinned people, but blacks who are gang bangers and lazy...however, lay people don't see it that way...our message has to sound more P.C. (unfortunatley and fortunately), on this forum and elsewhere if we are to become a mass movement...Or for that matter our other ideals of Torah Judaism to integrate into other movements to save America, Israel, Europe, and the rest of the world (if possible, Gd willing)