Who wants Moshiach Now?

[muman613]

Another issue to consider is Talmud Shabbat 31a which discusses the questions a soul is asked in Olam Haba on the Day of Judgement:


Raba said, When man is led in for Judgment26  he is asked, Did you deal faithfully [i.e., with integrity], did you fix times for learning, did you engage in procreation, did you hope for salvation, did you engage in the dialectics of wisdom, did you understand one thing from another.27  Yet even so, if 'the fear of the Lord is his treasure,' it is well: if not, [it is] not [well]. This may be compared to a man who instructed his agent, 'Take me up a kor of wheat in the loft,' and he went and did so. 'Did you mix in a kab of humton?'28  he asked him, 'No,' replied he. 'Then it were better that you had not carried it up,' he retorted. The School of R. Ishmael taught: A man may mix a kab of humton in a kor of grain, and have no fear.29/
http://halakhah.com/shabbath/shabbath_31.html


http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48883092.html

It is frightening to think that after so many years of pain and persecution, the Jewish people may be on the brink of true redemption. Who will merit to see this awesome reality? The Talmud teaches:

    Rava said: When they bring a person for judgment, they will ask: "Did you deal faithfully in business? Did you set aside fixed times for Torah? Did you try to have children? Did you anticipate the redemption..."(Shabbat 31a)

This question is not merely theoretical. It will actually determine the quality of each individual's redemptive experience. As Rabbi Yechezkel Levenstein wrote:

    The Exodus from Egypt liberated only one out of five Jews (and some say one out of every 50) because all those who were bound to Egypt and did not want to depart died in the three days of darkness and were not privileged to leave. Only those who desired redemption with all their hearts were redeemed. The Final Redemption, likewise, depends upon our yearning. (Ohr Yechezkel, Emunat HaGeulah)

[edu]

As Muman613 stated

did you hope for salvation

is one of the questions in the heavenly court that they ask a person, when he dies.
However, I understand this to mean, did you do active preparation for all the new responsibilities and commandments that you will have to start doing, if the previous roadblocks to those activities have been lifted by the salvation. Were you also active yourself, in trying to bring the salvation!

It does not mean let's sit back and do nothing because mashiach is going to come now and solve all the problems without me having to lift a finger.

[muman613]

As Muman613 stated  is one of the questions in the heavenly court that they ask a person, when he dies.
However, I understand this to mean, did you do active preparation for all the new responsibilities and commandments that you will have to start doing, if the previous roadblocks to those activities have been lifted by the salvation. Were you also active yourself, in trying to bring the salvation!

It does not mean let's sit back and do nothing because mashiach is going to come now and solve all the problems without me having to lift a finger.

And who ever suggested that?

Yearning for Moshiach does not  mean doing nothing. I dont really undersand why you think it does.

Did anything I post say anything about doing nothing?All Ihave written here says that we must be prepared for Moshiach coming any day.

[edu]

Muman613

Yearning for Moshiach does not  mean doing nothing. I dont really undersand why you think it does.

When I was back in the USA to visit relatives a while ago during my visit I met up with a Sofer Stam. He told me, I await the day, that Mashiach will come and take me to Israel on the "wings of eagles".
Having been prepared already what to answer back, based on a Shiur or Rabbi Yehuda Kroiser {the english spelling might vary from how he spells it} of Haraayon Hayehudi Yeshiva, I said to him, I'm sure Mashiach won't be upset if you make it easier on him by just taking an airplane to Israel.
This Sofer Stam's attitude was just an example among many, of people who use their anticipation of Mashiach to do Nothing!!

[muman613]

Muman613When I was back in the USA to visit relatives a while ago during my visit I met up with a Sofer Stam. He told me, I await the day, that Mashiach will come and take me to Israel on the "wings of eagles".
Having been prepared already what to answer back, based on a Shiur or Rabbi Yehuda Kroiser {the english spelling might vary from how he spells it} of Haraayon Hayehudi Yeshiva, I said to him, I'm sure Mashiach won't be upset if you make it easier on him by just taking an airplane to Israel.
This Sofer Stam's attitude was just an example among many, of people who use their anticipation of Mashiach to do Nothing!!

Shalom,

I hear what you are saying about this sofer... But I think that he may have been making an excuse why he is not making Aliyah.

But the concept 'on the wings of Eagles' is a powerful idea. I have read and learned many concepts which are related to this. You know that the sages discuss two scenarios by which the final redemption can come. The easy way, through the merit of Bnai Yisroel or he can come the hard way, when the Jewish people have fallen so low that they cannot fall any further. The second scenario is the one which the redemption of Mitrayim resembles.

And it is also said that the future redemption will resemble the first redemption. Looking at this world today I am inclined to believe that it is far-fetched to believe that Moshiach will come because Kol Yisroel merits it. The best the remnants of Torah observant Jews can do is to try as hard as we can to fulfill the mitzvot.

And indeed the mitzvot of living in the land should be more important to the Jewish people. But I will not, in this post, go into the reasons I believe this to be the case.

But I agree that it was wrong for this sofer to use this excuse for not making aliyah.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

So you are saying it is not sane to believe in the arrival of Moshiach, at any moment?

No, I didn't just say that, YOU DID.

MUMAN, Why do you insist on putting words in other people's mouths, then refuting what they never said by posting three articles about how wrong is the straw man that Muman just put in your mouth?

Either you are severely lacking in reading comprehension, or what I think is the most likely explanation YOU DIDN'T BOTHER TO READ WHAT I WROTE BEFORE FIRST REACTING to it viscerally and emotionally without considering what point I was making and what precisely I had said.    STOP REACTING.  START READING AND COMPREHENDING FIRST BEFORE POSTING.

[muman613]

No, I didn't just say that, YOU DID.

MUMAN, Why do you insist on putting words in other people's mouths, then refuting what they never said by posting three articles about how wrong is the straw man that Muman just put in your mouth?

Either you are severely lacking in reading comprehension, or what I think is the most likely explanation YOU DIDN'T BOTHER TO READ WHAT I WROTE BEFORE FIRST REACTING to it viscerally and emotionally without considering what point I was making and what precisely I had said.    STOP REACTING.  START READING AND COMPREHENDING FIRST BEFORE POSTING.

KWRBT,

Im sorry you are so upset... I have nothing against what you said but it seemed to me that you are saying that it is insane to believe that Moshiach is coming, or to tell others that you await his coming.

I personally feel it is important to have a balance in your outlook on the subject. While we all know that there are actual realities which are preventing us from being redeemed at the moment I think we must also believe that he will come at any moment.

It is difficult to go through the challenges of life without having hope in redemption. I don't know how non-believers do it. Maybe Hashem doesn't give them the same kind of challenges he has given me {which is obvious}...

But concerning your reaction to my postings. Is there anything I said which offends you? Please explain to me why you feel that you may 'rain on my parade' as you put it... I am not acting emotionally, I am attempting to understand you. As always I have respected you and your opinion, although we may disagree on certain issues. Let us try to understand each other.

PS: Having said that, and going back and examining the post which seemed to offend KWRBT... He is correct that he did not say believing in Moshiachs coming was insanity... He was saying that discussing the unfortunate times when Jews have believed in false messiahs in this thread brings some sanity to the discussion. I apologize for that..

[muman613]

Regardless of everything here, One Day Moshiach will come and we will know the real truth...



And again:

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Well anyway I want to apologize if I was out of line, Muman.  I was a bit frustrated and all I want is for there to be more understanding and commensurate discussion amongst us.

[muman613]

Well anyway I want to apologize if I was out of line, Muman.  I was a bit frustrated and all I want is for there to be more understanding and commensurate discussion amongst us.

Thank you, there is no problem. I realized after you pointed it out that you did not deny that Moshiach was coming nor that we are supposed to believe that he can come at any time. I agree fully that we should not sit back and just wait for Moshiach to solve all the problems. And I agree that on occasions the Jewish people have believed in false Messiahs. It is one of those lines which we must be careful not to step over. And I know that we are not supposed to worship dead Jews, even the sages, because our prayers should only be to Hashem.

But thank you again for your understanding... I only want to learn from others, so that I can teach others...

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

I don't like the way Rabbi Mizrachi ridicules and smears every person who doesn't think like him.
In this video, I think he sounds like a complacent man who hasn't got the courage and the intellectual honesty to question his beliefs, and as a manipulative man who tries to seduce his audience through jokes that are imbued with yetser hara.

I used to be very good friends with the Rabbi, i noticed his lectures are 10% Torah and 90% his opinions. He has a very bad way of getting Jews into Judaism.

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

I personally don't want Moshiach to arrive. why? i don't want to lose million of Jews.

[edu]

I personally do want Mashiach to arrive. Why? So that we can fulfill all the commandments of the Torah in the full way and in the ideal way and because it will bring about Kiddush Hashem and the fulfillment of G-d's ultimate goals and wishes for mankind.
Furthermore Mashiach is a crucial stepping stone towards obtaining from G-d many blessings for the Jewish people and the whole world.
But don't get me wrong, I am not putting all the burden on the back of Mashiach to fix everything. We have our part to do, too!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I personally don't want Moshiach to arrive. why? i don't want to lose million of Jews.

Lose millions of Jews?

[muman613]

This song reminds us to always be prepared for Moshiach:



See the article @
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145555

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Lose millions of Jews?

 I believe he got that idea from the popular belief and statement that I often hear myself that 80% of Jews will die. Where do these people who say these things get it from? From the Midrashic source that says that 1/5 of Jews left Egypt (but then says other numbers as well- 1 in 50, 1 in 500! ) Soo because the first redemption supposidly had 1/5 only leave egypt they now preach that 1/5 will survive in the final "redemption".
  Does that make solid sense? And also a very good way of telling Jews to keep Mitzvwoth in order to "survive" while the other 80% perish. Real Ahavat Yisrael right there.

[muman613]

I believe he got that idea from the popular belief and statement that I often hear myself that 80% of Jews will die. Where do these people who say these things get it from? From the Midrashic source that says that 1/5 of Jews left Egypt (but then says other numbers as well- 1 in 50, 1 in 500! ) Soo because the first redemption supposidly had 1/5 only leave egypt they now preach that 1/5 will survive in the final "redemption".
  Does that make solid sense? And also a very good way of telling Jews to keep Mitzvwoth in order to "survive" while the other 80% perish. Real Ahavat Yisrael right there.

I believe it is more than that...  I believe there is a pasuk in Talmud about how many people may die in Gog UMagog...

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

I believe it is more than that...  I believe there is a pasuk in Talmud about how many people may die in Gog UMagog...

 I dont think soo. Not directly and nothing stated as fact either. Also their are the prophets and I believe it says 2/3rd of WORLD population (and I dont know if this is literal or what), but self-hating Jews like Bill Maher once mentioned it and said Jews! This is the sickness people are obsessed with how many Jews will die and not with what can be done NOT to have any Jews die.

[GunsAndRosesFan]

Indeed, this is a very interesting subject.

[Yirmayahu]

Baruch haba bashem Adonai