Author Topic: Magen David  (Read 1598 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4384
Magen David
« on: September 07, 2011, 09:24:10 AM »
There is absolutely no proof that the six pointed star has ever been a significant Jewish symbol. There were probably more swastikas than sixers found on ancient coins and Batei Knesset engravements

Offline Yaakov Mendel

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Magen David
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 09:52:31 AM »

You'd rather use a swastika ? Looks more Jewish to you ?
The term "Magen David" is a title of the G-d of Israel. The Magen David is widely recognized as a symbol of Jewish identity and Judaism. It has a long history. The shape of the Magen David has a precise and profound meaning.

Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Magen David
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 10:20:09 AM »
What???????  Seriously??????

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: Magen David
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 10:25:34 AM »
There is absolutely no proof that the six pointed star has ever been a significant Jewish symbol. There were probably more swastikas than sixers found on ancient coins and Batei Knesset engravements

Just because the hexagram is used as an occult symbol and in masonic type 'sacred geometry' doesn't make it the same symbol as the Jewish Magen David. They have different meanings even though the symbols look similar. What do you have against Jews using it for their symbol?

Edit: sorry I posted I just realized it was you and you changed your name again.  ???

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4384
Re: Magen David
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 10:32:05 AM »
I'll ignore the troll. No need to explain that what I meant is that even the swastika has been used by Jews more than the Magen David.

What???????  Seriously??????

What I know first hand is that there were no Judea coins or tablets bearing superimposed triangles (while Menora, Mishkan, Aron Haeduth, Shofar and Ethrog are in abundance), and not significantly more mosaics and engravings of it in Batei Kenesset than, say, heptagrams, pentograms or even swastikas. Sure, it's a sign which bears importance in the Hidden Torah - hardly an evidence it has ever been a distinctive symbol meant for representation

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Magen David
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 10:47:06 AM »
There is absolutely no proof that the six pointed star has ever been a significant Jewish symbol. There were probably more swastikas than sixers found on ancient coins and Batei Knesset engravements

I saw a new name and from this post I assumed this was a trollish post.  When I went on the profile, I saw 4004 posts...

Oddly enough, when I don't recognize someone who is a long time poster and see posts like this, I assume troll.  Kind of funny.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Magen David
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 11:43:54 AM »
Magen David has been a Jewish symbol for hundreds of years at least. It is believed to have evolved from the Lilium candidum (שושן צחור ) which was a symbol engraved on second temple era coins.





If that's not enough, look at the "Leningrad Codex"- this 1003 year old Jewish bible has a magen david as it colophon.



So speaking for myself, I am sticking with the magen david.

Offline Yaakov Mendel

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1766
Re: Magen David
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 02:51:26 PM »
I'll ignore the troll.

I don't understand, who is the troll ?

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Magen David
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 03:11:47 PM »
Aish.com has a great article on the Magen David:

http://www.aish.com/jl/sp/k/48942436.html

Yeshiva Ohr Somayach has this:

http://ohr.edu/3457

Magen David
by Rabbi Yirmiyahu Ullman - www.rabbiullman.com

From: Marsha in Australia

    Dear Rabbi,

    Is the familiar six-pointed star called the Star of David indeed associated with King David, or for that matter is it an original Jewish symbol at all?


Dear Marsha,

There is no mention of this symbol in the Torah or any of the Talmudic literature. In addition, unlike the menorah, which is mentioned and also found in many archeological findings in buildings and on coins, the Star of David is not found in any ancient Jewish artifacts. This would seem to indicate that this widespread symbol of Judaism used today is not uniquely or originally Jewish.

Some possible exceptions that I can’t confirm might include a Babylonian relief purportedly depicting Nebuchadnezzar capturing King Zedekiah. Above the head of Nebuchadnezzar is the winged sun disc of the Babylonian empire while above the head of King Zedekiah is an encircled Magen David. If this is correct, it might identify the Magen David as a Jewish, or at least a Judah symbol. However, on the other hand, the relief is not a Jewish source. There also seems to be a relic referred to as the seal of Joshua Ben Asayahu found in Sidon from the Second Temple period in the 6th century BCE that purportedly contains the symbol. Finally, I have seen this symbol carved in a frieze on a fourth-century CE synagogue at Capernaum (Kfar Nachum) in Israel. However, since it is accompanied by both a five-pointed star and possibly a swastika there is no indication that it is of Jewish origin.

The six-pointed star also seems to have a very long history in India and the Far East. This usage and that as the Star of David may have similar origins, or they may have developed independently since the superimposing of inversed triangles is geometrically rather simple (unlike this sentence).

While the Talmudic literature does not mention the Magen David as a symbol, the term is discussed as a concept. The gemara uses this terminology when referring to G-d’s shield of protection over David and his descendent Messiah (Pesachim 117b). This is the source for the blessing recited after reading the haftarah on Shabbat: “Gladden us…with the kingdom of the house of David…let no other inherit his honor…for You swore that his heir will not be extinguished…Blessed are You, G-d, Sheild of David (Magen David). This concept and phrase are based on verses in which David praises G-d for shielding him from harm (II Sam. 22:36, Ps. 18:36).

According to legend, David battled with a shield that either had this symbol on it, or was constructed in this shape as two triangular pieces of leather stretched over a circular frame. Another idea connecting the symbol to David is based on the Hebrew spelling of his name ‘dalet’, ‘vav’, ‘dalet’. In ancient times the ‘dalet’ was triangular-shaped (similar to the Greek delta) and “vav” implies a connection. David’s name in Hebew, then, can be represented symbolically as two interconnected triangles. However, these ideas are just lore and conjecture and are based on imagination more than on fact.

Exactly when, how and why the symbol became incorporated into Judaism is unclear. Nevertheless, a Shield of David has been found on a Jewish tombstone in Southern Italy dating as early as the third century CE. A Tanach dated 1307 belonging to Rabbi Yosef bar Yehuda ben Marvas from Toledo, Spain, is decorated with a Shield of David. In 1460, the Jews of Hungary received King Mathios Kuruvenus with a red flag on which were two Shields of David. A Hebrew prayer book printed in Prague in 1512 has a large Shield of David on the cover with the phrase, “Each man beneath his flag according to the house of their fathers... and he will merit to bestow a bountiful gift on anyone who grasps the Shield of David.” In addition, flags with the Shield of David apparently adorned the synagogues of Prague.

The Magen David is also mentioned in Jewish mystical texts of the Middle Ages. The earliest is Eshkol Ha-Kofer by the Karaite Judah Hadassi, in the mid-12th century CE: “Seven names of angels precede the mezuzah: Michael, Gabriel, etc. ... And likewise the sign, called the Shield of David, is placed beside the name of each angel.” Some Kabbalistic amulets use the symbol to arrange the Ten Sefirot, including in the six points the six Hebrew letters of “Melech David”, “Yerushalayim” or the 7-lined prayer “ana b’koach” (using the middle of the symbol as the seventh point). Rabbi Isaac Luria, the Arizal, made a kabbalistic connection between the Star of David and items of the Seder plate by aligning the three matzot at the top point, the ‘zeroa’ (shankbone) and ‘beitza’ (egg) on the upper right and left, the ‘maror’ (bitter herb - lettuce) in the middle, the ‘charoset’ (mortar-like mixture)and ‘carpas’ (leafy vegetable) on the lower right and left, concluding with the ‘chazeret’ (horseradish) at the bottom.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline syyuge

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7684
Re: Magen David
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 05:29:01 PM »
To me, Magen David appears as the sign of enclosed powers of Hashem in paradise.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline JTFenthusiast2

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2828
Re: Magen David
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 11:44:59 PM »
Wasn't the star of David embossed on Solomon's shield?

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Magen David
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2011, 05:21:37 AM »
Wasn't the star of David embossed on Solomon's shield?
‎That's probably just a myth.