Author Topic: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"  (Read 12784 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« on: June 15, 2007, 10:39:46 AM »
Free Choice and Responsibility

Since the Rebbe has recently spoken out against the practice of family planning and birth prevention, some critics, claiming that such statements are an unjustified invasion of privacy, go so far as to declare them to be “against the Constitution” and even tinged with a touch of dictatorship. The Rebbe gave the following response to such criticisms.

In the United States, a great deal of money is being spent to maintain a Federal agency known as the Food and Drug Administration, which tests products to ensure that they are fit for human consumption. A product which is proven to be dangerous is not permitted on the public market; if the possibility of harmful side-effects exists, the product must be accompanied by a warning on the label. One might question the right of the government to limit the products its citizenry is permitted to consume. It is obvious that government is needed for social legislation; for as it says in Pirkei Avos,[115] if not for government “men would swallow one another alive.” But isn’t one’s ingestion of food and drugs a personal matter?

Granted that this might be something which affects only the individual, and is a matter of his own health and welfare. However, a government that is truly concerned about its citizens will do everything it possibly can to keep them from harm, even harm which they choose to inflict upon themselves. Even if somebody wishes to acquire a known harmful substance, he is thwarted and the manufacturers are legally prosecuted if they persist in its distribution.

This is demonstrated most graphically in society’s response to an attempted suicide. If someone wishes to throw himself from a bridge, police and coast guard are mobilized to prevent his death. The individual may be 119 years and 364 days old and in the last hours of his life, but society will expend resources of time, money, and equipment to prevent that life from being cut one hour short. It is not only an individual’s desire to harm another which society finds intolerable, but the desire to damage oneself as well.

Family planning, proclaimed by many to be an individual right, causes serious harm to the people who practice it. Medical doctors have concluded that there is a direct relationship between nervous disorders and birth prevention. Psychologists also attribute mental and emotional breakdowns to this practice and marriage counselors trace numerous marital problems to the unbearable tensions which family planning places upon the husband, the wife, and their relationship.

Those who speak in favor of birth prevention do so under the illusion that they are working for “humanitarian” purposes. They feel they are furthering the cause of personal “freedom of choice.” When, however, the utilization of personal freedom causes direct personal damage, as in the case of consumption of harmful substances or attempted suicide, society realizes its obligation to step in and prevent such harmful actions. Therefore, society should act against family planning, not as an attack on personal freedom but in order to prevent the abuse of it. The so-called humanitarians who speak in favor of family planning “act like Zimri while asking for the reward of Pinchas;”[116] they come as destroyers and expect to be praised as saviors.

The damage done has been documented in numerous cases by doctors; the statistics are there to be compiled. This compilation would not be an invasion of privacy as no personal information would be sought, only the statistics. The researcher should be scrupulously honest in compiling his data and then release his findings to the public. The evidence will be so clear that all who publicly encourage family planning will be forced to reverse their position; once the advocates of family planning become its opponents, the campaign for a return to a normal way of life will be immeasurably strengthened. As the truth becomes evident to all, the awards previously given to the advocates of birth prevention will be awarded to those who research and expose the truth about it, for they are the true humanitarians.

The way this education campaign is to be conducted should be according to the example of the Previous Rebbe. Despite all the forces which opposed him, he publicly announced[117] that “the Jewish soul never went into Golus,” that a Jew should not be swayed from the path of truth. Despite all lies and slander contrived against him, he knew that the only true way was Torah. Similarly, we must not be affected by the proponents of family planning who claim the right of privacy and protest against interference.

We learn this from the example of Korach, who led a rebellion against Moshe. Korach spoke with only “half a mouth,” he could not go against Moshe with full strength. Even while he was rebelling, he accepted Moshe’s instructions[118] as to the manner in which their dispute was to be decided. Korach’s weapons consisted of lies and slander; therefore he could not match the strength of Moshe which sprang from the Torah of truth. Thus we learn that falsehood is automatically weakened when confronted by truth and should not affect or worry those who speak for Torah — the Torah of truth.

This is especially true in these times when “there is no such thing as an apikoras — there is only the am ha’aretz.” Today, the opposition to Torah regarding Taharas HaMishpachah (lubab: Jewish family purity Laws) as well as family planning, is rooted in ignorance, based on the misconception that the way of Torah is contrary to the natural way of life. Through educating people to the truth, that Torah commands us to lead a normal life, they will cease to act out of ignorance.

Torah commands us to lead a normal life. A normal marriage is followed by children, not a million-dollar bank account. A child does not need a million dollars at birth to see him through his entire life. The parents should realize that just as their parents had enough for them, so will they have enough for the children who will be born to them. All wealth comes from G-d and He will provide for all the children He gives to a couple. We should not worry about His accounting system, but realize that each one will receive what he needs.

It is even apparent in a natural way that no one can say he is totally established through “the strength of his ‘ own hand.”[119] A young couple marries and establishes their home with the assistance of parents, friends, and relatives who provide them with a wedding celebration and gifts. If a young couple is dependent upon others in this obvious manner, how much more should they depend upon G-d of Whom it is said,[120] “The silver is Mine, the gold is Mine;” and who provides sustenance for all.

This is not for the Jew, but for the non-Jew as well. All people are created so that the world will be fully inhabited and not left barren. It is our responsibility to teach the non-Jew that he must lead a normal life, not one contrary to nature. All this must be explained in a way that the non-Jew can understand, regardless of the strength of the opposition.

We must convince the leaders of the country to fight against family planning and birth prevention through lobbying in Congress. The lobbying should be done by speaking simply and with common sense, without dramatization and hysteria. The elected officials are normal people who will understand a normal explanation, and the situation will be corrected.

The Gemara states: “When you go to a city you follow its customs.” Here, when somebody is seeking an elected post we say he is “running” for office. We must learn from this and also “run” — to learn Torah and bring its light to the entire world.



     
Notes:

(Back to text) on the 3rd of Tammuz the Previous Rebbe was told that his sentence was commuted to exile in Kostroma. On the 12th of Tammuz he was completely freed.

(Back to text) This phrase refers to those whose only identification with Judaism is that they are called Jews. And even when that identification is only in the way of a nick-name — not a full-fledged name.

(Back to text) This dichotomy is also applicable to the Meraglim (spies) who were sent out by Moshe. These spies were the princes of the people, and were personally chosen by Moshe. It was their sin which was grievous, not they themselves. (Chassidus explains that their sin was actually of a lofty nature, that they didn’t want to descend from their high spiritual level to go into Eretz Yisrael where they would have to deal with the physical world.)

(Back to text) Normally “G-d does not link His name with Tzaddikim in their lifetime, but only after their death,” because they may yet sin.

(Back to text) This is especially true according to the way Chassidus explains Korach’s arguments: It wasn’t simply that he was rebelling against Moshe; rather Korach wished to begin right away to do things the way they would be done in the times of Mashiach. His mistake (and his sin) was that, in order to reach such a level of conduct, he must first go through go the intermediate mode of conduct.

(Back to text) Moshe thought that if he went to them they would accord him the respect due to him, and thus be moved to repent.

(Back to text) This refers to Avraham’s purchase of the field of Ephron as a burial place for his wife Sarah.

(Back to text) 3:2

(Back to text) Sotah 22b

(Back to text) Likkutei Dibburim, Vol. IV, p. 692a

(Back to text) Bamidbar 16:6

(Back to text) Devarim 8:17

(Back to text) Chaggai 2:8

From www.sichosinenglish.com


« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 10:53:22 AM by lubab »
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Offline Shlomo

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5212
  • SAVE ISRAEL!
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2007, 02:35:44 PM »
An EXCELLENT post, lubab!
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2007, 07:15:45 PM »
An EXCELLENT post, lubab!

Yeah. And what are my other posts? Chopped liver?  ;D
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Offline Shlomo

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5212
  • SAVE ISRAEL!
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2007, 07:43:49 PM »
LOL
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 11:57:33 PM »
Believe me, if they followed everything the Rebbe instructs, they wouldn't be "savages" any more. If they don't, then this speech is not going to affect them either way.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2007, 12:18:06 AM by lubab »
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

newman

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 12:05:16 AM »
Beleive me, if they followed everything the Rebbe instructs, they wouldn't be "savages" any more. If they don't, then this speech is not going to affect them either way.




Brilliant logic......You just can't beat orthodox judaism. Why did X-tians and moslems try to fix what aint broke?

ftf

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 09:56:44 AM »
What's an X-tian?

Offline Nic Brookes

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2007, 11:33:30 AM »

ftf

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2007, 05:09:19 PM »
I know what the term is used to mean, Nic, I'm just rather annoyed that a member of this forum would use that derogatory term, when as a christian I'm not allowed to defend myself here.

Offline OdKahaneChai

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1794
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2007, 11:07:00 PM »
An EXCELLENT post, lubab!

Yeah. And what are my other posts? Chopped liver?  ;D
Well lubab, I guess if anyone doubted you were a Jew that post put an end to their doubt.  ;D

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

Offline OdKahaneChai

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1794
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2007, 11:10:42 PM »
I know what the term is used to mean, Nic, I'm just rather annoyed that a member of this forum would use that derogatory term, when as a christian I'm not allowed to defend myself here.
ftf, how is "X-tian" offensive?  "X" is an abbreviation for "Χριστος", which is Greek for "Christ".
« Last Edit: June 18, 2007, 07:19:48 PM by OdKahaneChai »

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2007, 12:04:13 PM »
I know what the term is used to mean, Nic, I'm just rather annoyed that a member of this forum would use that derogatory term, when as a christian I'm not allowed to defend myself here.
ftf, how is "X-tian" offensive?  "X" is and abbreviation for "Χριστος", which is Greek for "Christ".

Umm...I don't think that is what the poster had in mind at all.

The word "Christ"="annointed one"=a reference to the Messiah.

Using that phrase to refer to Jesus is admitting that the user of the word holds Jesus is the Messiah.   

Choosing to avoid that word is not derogatory. Chaim has said several times that Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, so why would we use a word that means that he is? I belive this is why many Jews use the words: X-tian and X-mas etc.

I don't think there is any reason to be offended by that. It's just a difference of opinion as to whom is the Messiah, a disagreement we are all already aware of.

If you still have a problem with the use of this word on this forum I'd be happy to speak with you about it on PMs.







"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

newman

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2007, 12:07:50 PM »
I know what the term is used to mean, Nic, I'm just rather annoyed that a member of this forum would use that derogatory term, when as a christian I'm not allowed to defend myself here.
ftf, how is "X-tian" offensive?  "X" is and abbreviation for "Χριστος", which is Greek for "Christ".

Umm...I don't think that is what the poster had in mind at all.

The word "Christ"="annointed one"=a reference to the Messiah.

Using that phrase to refer to Jesus is admitting that the user of the word holds Jesus is the Messiah.   

Choosing to avoid that word is not derogatory. Chaim has said several times that Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, so why would we use a word that means that he is? I belive this is why many Jews use the words: X-tian and X-mas etc.

I don't think there is any reason to be offended by that. It's just a difference of opinion as to whom is the Messiah, a disagreement we are all already aware of.

If you still have a problem with the use of this word on this forum I'd be happy to speak with you about it on PMs.









thankyou lubab

Offline Hail Columbia

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1858
  • Vrijheid, Welvaart, Beschaving
    • AfricanCrisis, Africa's Premier Hard News Website
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2007, 05:58:37 PM »
I know what the term is used to mean, Nic, I'm just rather annoyed that a member of this forum would use that derogatory term, when as a christian I'm not allowed to defend myself here.
ftf, how is "X-tian" offensive?  "X" is and abbreviation for "Χριστος", which is Greek for "Christ".

I see the term "Xtian" as being very condescending and offensive.


Learn the truth about rap "music": (Strongly recommended for new members)
www.geocities.com/wilder2k1
My MySpace site:
http://www.myspace.com/hailcolumbiajtf
My YouTube site:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HailColumbiaJTF
Dixie Outfitters, Preserving Southern Heritage Since 1861:
http://www.dixieoutfitters.com/
AfricanCrisis, Africa's Premier Hard News Website:
http://www.africancrisis.co.za
The Right Perspective, NYC's Most Dangerous Callers to Talk Radio, Airing Live Every Friday Night, 10 PM EST:
http://www.therightperspectivepodcastblog.blogspot.com/


In thy power Almighty, trusting,
Did our fathers build of old;
Strengthen then, O Lord, their children
To defend, to love, to hold
That the heritage they gave us
For our children yet may be:
Bondsmen only to the Highest
And before the whole world free.
As our fathers trusted humbly,
Teach us, Lord, to trust Thee still:
Guard our land and guide our people
In Thy way to do Thy will.

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2007, 06:02:59 PM »
I know what the term is used to mean, Nic, I'm just rather annoyed that a member of this forum would use that derogatory term, when as a christian I'm not allowed to defend myself here.
ftf, how is "X-tian" offensive?  "X" is and abbreviation for "Χριστος", which is Greek for "Christ".

I see the term "Xtian" as being very condescending and offensive.

How else would you suggest we avoid the problem I posed above in my last post?
"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Offline Shlomo

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5212
  • SAVE ISRAEL!
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2007, 07:27:04 PM »
It is completely acceptable on this forum to write the word "Christian". I am not a Christian and I still spell it out. It is common knowledge that there are Jews on this forum who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah but it's what they are called. Calling them X-tians is rather offensive to them and understandably so. Let's just call them Christians.

We don't even call muslims "X-slims"... though maybe we should.  :)
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Hail Columbia

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1858
  • Vrijheid, Welvaart, Beschaving
    • AfricanCrisis, Africa's Premier Hard News Website
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2007, 08:01:52 PM »
How else would you suggest we avoid the problem I posed above in my last post?

That the term "Christian" be used instead.


Learn the truth about rap "music": (Strongly recommended for new members)
www.geocities.com/wilder2k1
My MySpace site:
http://www.myspace.com/hailcolumbiajtf
My YouTube site:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HailColumbiaJTF
Dixie Outfitters, Preserving Southern Heritage Since 1861:
http://www.dixieoutfitters.com/
AfricanCrisis, Africa's Premier Hard News Website:
http://www.africancrisis.co.za
The Right Perspective, NYC's Most Dangerous Callers to Talk Radio, Airing Live Every Friday Night, 10 PM EST:
http://www.therightperspectivepodcastblog.blogspot.com/


In thy power Almighty, trusting,
Did our fathers build of old;
Strengthen then, O Lord, their children
To defend, to love, to hold
That the heritage they gave us
For our children yet may be:
Bondsmen only to the Highest
And before the whole world free.
As our fathers trusted humbly,
Teach us, Lord, to trust Thee still:
Guard our land and guide our people
In Thy way to do Thy will.

Offline Lubab

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Master JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1641
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2007, 08:29:40 PM »
How else would you suggest we avoid the problem I posed above in my last post?

That the term "Christian" be used instead.

I just spoke to a ruling Rabbi about this. Everyone should know it is o.k. to use the word "Chritianity". So I guess you should so as not to offend our posters. When it comes to "X-mas" that's a bit of a different story. Speak to me in private.

 


"It is not upon you to finish the work, nor are you free to desist from it." Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot.

Offline Shlomo

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5212
  • SAVE ISRAEL!
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2007, 09:58:17 PM »
Thank you for looking into this, lulab. I was just about to reply to your message.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Nic Brookes

  • Pro JTFer
  • *****
  • Posts: 867
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2007, 03:59:02 PM »
I think it should be okay to use the term Xtian or Christian. Everyone is free to say whichever they choose on this forum.



ftf finds it offensive though.

ftf

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2007, 04:54:28 PM »
I think it should be okay to use the term Xtian or Christian. Everyone is free to say whichever they choose on this forum.


Please, Yacov, don't tell such baltant lies, if I started constructing a detailed argument for why christianity has to be the truth, it would be deleted and I'd be warned or banned, the topic I created that was specifically addressed to christian members of the board saying happy easter was deleted without explanation.

I think it should be okay to use the term Xtian or Christian. Everyone is free to say whichever they choose on this forum.


ftf finds it offensive though.
It's not the term I find offensive, it's the fact that people use it intentionally to offend, everyone's happy calling muslims muslims, whats's wrong with calling christians christians? I had not previously heard of the x being an abreviation for the greek for christ, even if it is, what's the point in it? It's not as if "christian" takes a long time to type.

newman

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2007, 09:48:52 PM »
I think it should be okay to use the term Xtian or Christian. Everyone is free to say whichever they choose on this forum.


Please, Yacov, don't tell such baltant lies, if I started constructing a detailed argument for why christianity has to be the truth, it would be deleted and I'd be warned or banned, the topic I created that was specifically addressed to christian members of the board saying happy easter was deleted without explanation.

I think it should be okay to use the term Xtian or Christian. Everyone is free to say whichever they choose on this forum.


ftf finds it offensive though.
It's not the term I find offensive, it's the fact that people use it intentionally to offend, everyone's happy calling muslims muslims, whats's wrong with calling christians christians? I had not previously heard of the x being an abreviation for the greek for christ, even if it is, what's the point in it? It's not as if "christian" takes a long time to type.

Nobody trying to offend here, but christ means messiah and jews and noachides can't and shouldn't give defacto acknowledgement to yeshua as messiah bt using the word...... nit picky but there you have it.

Joe Schmo

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2007, 09:54:42 PM »
Are there really people here who are offended by the word 'Christian'?  ???

Offline jdl4ever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2000
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2007, 10:52:29 PM »
I understand why Christians would get offended if you don't call them Christians but change their name.  How would us Jews like it if the Christians call us Yews  ::)  The only problem is that some Jews don't want to write anything with christ in it since we don't want to make it appear that we accept this belief. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2007, 10:55:56 PM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

newman

  • Guest
Re: The Rebbe Speaks About Abortion and "Family Planning"
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2007, 11:04:21 PM »
I understand why Christians would get offended if you don't call them Christians but change their name.  How would us Jews like it if the Christians call us Yews  ::)  The only problem is that some Jews don't want to write anything with christ in it since we don't want to make it appear that we accept this belief. 

I get sick when I hear politicians calling mahommad the "Prophet mahommad". No chr_stian or Jewish sect accepts that this pig was a prophet, so why do they refurr to him that way. Rapist mahommad, warlord mahommad, bigand mahommad...fine. Just not "prophet".