Do you support Herman Cain's 999 plan?

[Maimonides]

Since there is talk on this board about support Herman Cain's 999 plan, we should take a look at it.
Under Herman Cain's 999 plan he would implement a :

1) 9% Flat Income tax on Everyone with NO Deductions

2) 9% Sales Tax on EVERYTHING (including food and clothing)

3) 9% Business Tax on all Business with NO Deductions

Here is a website that has a calculator which is an estimate of what your individual taxes will be, but the caveat is that it is just a rough estimate so it may be lower or higher in reality.http://www.nerds4cain.com/Blog/archives/723

Frankly I think Herman Cain is too heavily influence by Wall Street because of his past with the Pillsbury Corporation, and his stint as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City.

His 999 plan would in effect raise taxes on the poor and middle class, while cutting taxes for the rich. There is no way he could sell to millions of Americans who pay no income tax to start paying income tax. And the National Sales Tax will in effect be another federal tax on top of the income tax.

Plus we know how Washington works it will start as a 999 plan, and then become a 25-25-25 plan or who knows how high taxes will go when the Federal Government has a new source of revenue.

[Confederate Kahanist]

Even though I don't think we should raise taxes on the rich, thought we definitely shouldn't raise them on the middle class and poor.

[Dr. Dan]

The less money the govt had, the more likely they'll spend it more wisely and the more private enterprise will form.  Income tax should be abolished while oil tax and consumption tax should be high.

[briann]

I have spoken about this before.  Its a pipe-dream, and its never gonna happen.  Even with a GOP super-majority, they would never gamble on this, especially when we are drifting towards becoming Greece.

The taxes DO need to be lowered, but first spending has to be cut, then taxes need to be simplified, then we can look at changing rates and possibly experimenting with something like a national sales tax.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Frankly I think Herman Cain is too heavily influence by Wall Street because of his past with the Pillsbury Corporation, and his stint as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City.

1.  How does that past make him "influenced by wallstreet" ?

2.  What exactly is wall street's influence?  How is it positive/negative?

As an addendum, I'm not entirely sure what you refer to by the term "wall street" - does that include many different businesses all acting with unitary purpose?  Or some representative body that includes all the traders and publicly traded companies (does something like that exist?)  Or do you mean an exchange floor like the NY Stock Exchange?

Please help me understand your statement.

[Secularbeliever]

It would give a tremendous boost to the economy.  I don't really like leaving corporate and income taxes in the mix because the 9s would tend to get raised but it is certainly a new idea and a step forward.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I have spoken about this before.  Its a pipe-dream, and its never gonna happen.  Even with a GOP super-majority, they would never gamble on this, especially when we are drifting towards becoming Greece.

The taxes DO need to be lowered, but first spending has to be cut, then taxes need to be simplified, then we can look at changing rates and possibly experimenting with something like a national sales tax.

America already is greece whether people want to admit that or not.  The difference is america is superior to greece and also the US dollar.  

But the fact is the govt needs additional revenue and to cut spending massively.  LOWERING TAXES creates a bigger hole than currently exists.  Taxes will not be lowered.  
Cain's plan incorporates aspects of the flat tax and aspects of the fair tax.  These are the two main forms of taxcode revision envisioned by opponents of the current system.  There is usually an argument between them, one side says no we shouldn't enact a fair tax because we would rather it be flat tax.  And vice versa.

The way I see it this 999 business can work for and against cain.  On the one hand it can work against him because often people are all talk, they all hate the current system but when it comes to actually trying something new, oh no that's too extreme we don't know how it will turn out etc they are comfortable with how things are even tho they complain about it.  On the other hand, there are many americans who are sick and tired of the same old same old nonsense out of washington and are in the mood for big changes because they increasingly see the country is in a drastic state.  So a totally new idea that changes the whole tax code could be something people embrace.  Judging by his surprise popularity it seems there are more willing to embrace it.

As to raising taxes on the poor, they should have to pay taxes too why are they exempt?  Let's discuss that question.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It would give a tremendous boost to the economy. 

I agree.  The logic is something like this, tax businesses less, they make more money and invest more and also can create more jobs, tax people less and they will spend more on goods thereby causing businesses to earn more and the govt to earn more thru the sales tax getting pennies on the dollar to all those transactions, the businesses get more sales and confidence that the economy and consumer spending can grow now that tax burden is alleviated, and they hire more.

The main reasons companies are currently hesistant to hire more is because they are not confident the economy can grow under these conditions and also there is the dark cloud of federal regulation always hanging over head that maybe tomorrow the govt regulates excessively and comes in to "change the rules of the game" with new legislation over controversial matters in certain industries thus putting companies with low cash reserves (which they reinvested in the company by hiring) at additional risk to adapt to that.  The companies are "keeping their powder dry" because they know at any time a new "obamacare" type bill can come and turn their industry upside down.

[Secularbeliever]

Very simple, would you go and do the hard work of starting a business, knowing the government is going to take most of the money if you succeed.  Neither do many potential entrepeneurs.   Unleash the private enterprise spirits and good things will happen.

[syyuge]

He can make a 999 plan or even 111 plan, but he should never make any 666 or 786 plan.

[nessuno]

He can make a 999 plan or even 111 plan, but he should never make any 666 or 786 plan.

[Masha]

I read that half of the people don't pay any taxes at all right now. I guess they would not welcome this suggestion. I am undecided about the issue of flat tax. What I think I support though is that only people who pay (net) income taxes have a right to vote. Yes, I think that voting rights should be restricted to those who have the symbolic "stewardship" of the country.

[Dr. Dan]

But should people who pay more in taxes get more votes?  Actually come to think of it, the sort of do.

[Rubystars]

He's such a dumb donkey. His policy on China, when he was asked about it was: "I've got three words for you on China, Outgrow China"

First of all, that's two words. Secondly... does he have ANY idea how big China is? Is this the best the GOP can present to us? 

[Masha]

But should people who pay more in taxes get more votes?  Actually come to think of it, the sort of do.

Perhaps, if votes represent the percentage of your "investment" in your country. But I would take away votes from those who invest in foreign companies and outsourcing. In other words, the voter should have a stake in the well-being and economic performance of his country. He should absolutely have no stake in the prosperity of other countries, because he would then vote for their interests, not his own country's interests.

[TheCoon]

He's such a dumb donkey. His policy on China, when he was asked about it was: "I've got three words for you on China, Outgrow China"

First of all, that's two words. Secondly... does he have ANY idea how big China is? Is this the best the GOP can present to us? 

There isn't much America can do about China other than get its house together.

[Rubystars]

There isn't much America can do about China other than get its house together.

Right but don't you think Cain's commentary was especially stupid?

[Irish Zionist]

He's such a dumb donkey. His policy on China, when he was asked about it was: "I've got three words for you on China, Outgrow China"

Compare that to these and who would you rather giving the choice:

''The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries.''
—Barack Obama, Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010


''In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed.''
—Barack Obama, on a Kansas tornado that killed 12 people


''I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go.''
—Barack Obama, at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon

[Dr. Dan]

Perhaps, if votes represent the percentage of your "investment" in your country. But I would take away votes from those who invest in foreign companies and outsourcing. In other words, the voter should have a stake in the well-being and economic performance of his country. He should absolutely have no stake in the prosperity of other countries, because he would then vote for their interests, not his own country's interests.

It should be one vote per legal tax paying american citizen who is not a convicted criminal.

[Rubystars]

Irish Zionist, right now I'm just saying that Cain shouldn't get the republican nomination. If he were to be chosen of course I would support him against Obama.

[TheCoon]

Right but don't you think Cain's commentary was especially stupid?

Not particularly, no. Everyone has a brain fart every now and then. Like I said, there isn't much America can do other than get its act together and return to principles that made it great. There's no magical government plan that will fix it.

[syyuge]

As the situation stands today, Cain2012 is the best candidate available on both sides.

[Maimonides]

1.  How does that past make him "influenced by wallstreet" ?

2.  What exactly is wall street's influence?  How is it positive/negative?

As an addendum, I'm not entirely sure what you refer to by the term "wall street" - does that include many different businesses all acting with unitary purpose?  Or some representative body that includes all the traders and publicly traded companies (does something like that exist?)  Or do you mean an exchange floor like the NY Stock Exchange?

Please help me understand your statement.

When I say "Wall Street" I refer to multinational corporations, and private equity funds that dominate the Wall street stock index and the financial system in this country. These corporations, and private equity funds control our government, and use the government to impose regulations that crush small businesses while they ship jobs and wealth overseas.

Perhaps I should use the term multinational entities (MNE's), because not all companies listed on Wall Street are bad.

Herman Cain defends the Federal Reserve, which bailed out "Wall Street" and opposes any audit of the Federal Reserve. Clearly his stint as Chairman of the Fed Bank of Kansas City affects his current policies. Cain states that we should not blame the banks or corporations, but the fact is the banks and corporations are one with the U.S. government. If you don't focus on the fact that we have banksters and corporate monopolies destroying our economy by using their influence in our government, then this economic crisis will never end.

[Rubystars]

Not particularly, no. Everyone has a brain fart every now and then. Like I said, there isn't much America can do other than get its act together and return to principles that made it great. There's no magical government plan that will fix it.

From everything I've seen he has no understanding of foreign policy.

[Maimonides]

I read that half of the people don't pay any taxes at all right now. I guess they would not welcome this suggestion. I am undecided about the issue of flat tax. What I think I support though is that only people who pay (net) income taxes have a right to vote. Yes, I think that voting rights should be restricted to those who have the symbolic "stewardship" of the country.

Not true. Half of people don't pay Federal INCOME tax, but ALL working people pay Federal payroll taxes. To raise taxes on working class Americans by making them pay income tax would be to crush them into further into poverty.