Author Topic: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?  (Read 1271 times)

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Offline edu

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Israel is in the process of exchanging 1 soldier, Gilad Shalit, in exchange for more than a thousand Terrorists, who barring a miracle will unfortunately Kill again.
Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors? Or would we say they can be excused for wanting their son back at all costs and it is entirely the fault of the government for listening to the pressure that the Shalit family and the media, and possibly the US government, applied?
Please Comment.

Offline cjd

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 04:25:21 AM »
Israel is in the process of exchanging 1 soldier, Gilad Shalit, in exchange for more than a thousand Terrorists, who barring a miracle will unfortunately Kill again.
Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors? Or would we say they can be excused for wanting their son back at all costs and it is entirely the fault of the government for listening to the pressure that the Shalit family and the media, and possibly the US government, applied?
Please Comment.
I am not sure but this is something I seem to remember Israel doing many times before... Naturally the family would pressure the government to do everything in its power to get their son back why would the government prosecute them as traitors... It should not be a question of the government being pressured by anyone the policy should be no prisoner exchanges end of story... This policy now is designed to be a never ending cycle of  prisoner exchanges but the problem is Israel always has to give hundreds of detainees for one of its own... The problem  is really until Israel is prepared to ignore world opinion and fight fire with fire they have no tools in their basket to get people like Shalit back without resorting to stupidity like this.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Zelhar

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 04:56:53 AM »
First lets have anything remotely resembling JTF in government...

And no they wouldn't be punished but on the other hand there most likely wouldn't be this insane nonstop manipulative propaganda to release him at all cost.

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 08:25:40 AM »
It's only natural to want your son back at all costs. It is entirely the government's fault for going along with the deal. it is also the government's fault for not giving the terrorists an immediate death penalty

Offline Daniel Michael ben Avraham

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 09:22:01 AM »
As a Torah Jew I would not want a "JTF" government.  I would want a Torah true government led by a real Sanhedrin.  JTF can help us get there, but I don't think saying "JTF government" truly expresses what JTF is ultimately about.  Ultimately only a proper Sanhedrin composed of real right wing (for lack of a better term), Torah first Rabbis can decide the proper punishment for betrayal of the Jewish nation.  I know that sounds a bit idealistic, but the current system of government in Israel that allows Arab enemies and traitor Jews to be a part of and influence government has to go.  Perhaps a system where there were an upper and lower house where the lower was composed of lay people while the upper was composed of Torah observant Jews that swear an oath to uphold Torah would work better.  The Sanhedrin would be a classical major Sanhedrin that would have oversight and the Chief executive would have powers granted by the upper house and the Sanhedrin according to Torah law.  Torah denying Jews should have no part in a government of the Jewish nation.  It goes without saying that Arabs should have no part in Israel's government and should not be allowed citizenship; however, temporary residence under a visa might be permissible under the proper circumstances for qualified non-Jews.
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Offline edu

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 09:51:57 AM »
Quote by Daniel Michael ben Avraham
Quote
As a Torah Jew I would not want a "JTF" government.  I would want a Torah true government led by a real Sanhedrin.

It should be pointed out, that in the times of the Tanakh, the Jews were rarely ruled by a Sanhedrin.
Usually it was by a king or a Judge.
One of the rare times that they were led by Sanhedrin, didn't work out so great. I am refering to the story of Pilegesh B'giva (see the last 3 chapters of the book of Shoftim/Judges).
Another issue that has to be sorted out, is how would you necessarily get better leaders from a Sanhedrin.
For example, as pointed out in the article that I linked to below
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/148804
although Rabbi Dov Lior correctly opposes this deal of exchanging one soldier for more than a thousand terrorists
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who has a huge following in the Sefardic world (seemingly, a greater number of supporters than Rabbi Lior) supports the deal.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 12:18:16 PM »
Shalit himself is the traitor as are the (depending on poll) 69-80% of Israelis that welcome this.

Offline Manch

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 05:19:28 AM »
Shalit himself is the traitor as are the (depending on poll) 69-80% of Israelis that welcome this.
Why you are suggesting that Shalit is a traitor? 80% of Israelis are traitors?!
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Offline wonga66

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2011, 05:21:45 AM »
Is Gilad's father a French goy who converted Reform ie is Noam still Halachically a goy?

Offline Daniel Michael ben Avraham

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Re: Would a JTF Government, punish the parents of Gilad Shalit as traitors?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2011, 09:10:29 AM »
Quote by Daniel Michael ben Avraham  
It should be pointed out, that in the times of the Tanakh, the Jews were rarely ruled by a Sanhedrin.
Usually it was by a king or a Judge.
One of the rare times that they were led by Sanhedrin, didn't work out so great. I am refering to the story of Pilegesh B'giva (see the last 3 chapters of the book of Shoftim/Judges).
Another issue that has to be sorted out, is how would you necessarily get better leaders from a Sanhedrin.
For example, as pointed out in the article that I linked to below
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/148804
although Rabbi Dov Lior correctly opposes this deal of exchanging one soldier for more than a thousand terrorists
Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who has a huge following in the Sefardic world (seemingly, a greater number of supporters than Rabbi Lior) supports the deal.

Back then we had Nevuah.  Just because there are self hating religious Jews now doesn't mean we can not build a better society without them.  In our tefilah we pray for the reestablishment of the Sanhedrin.  Just because our ancestors continually messed up doesn't mean we can not do better or die trying.  We can be better than the mistakes of our past.
The observant Jew has his own sense of values. Torah Judaism is his blueprint for this life, his target for existence.
מורנו הרב מאיר כהנא