Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
613+7=620 : What is the meaning of this?
muman613:
Tag-Machir,
Some Rabbis do interpret this to be the 7 Mitzvot DiRabbanam.... But others, actually most, interpret it to be the 7 Noachide laws...
--- Quote ---http://revach.net/lists/article.php?id=69
7 Mitzvos DiRabbanan That Complete The Crown
There are 613 or Taryag Mitzvos in the Torah. There are another 7 Mitzvos MiDirabanan. That makes 620 or Kesser which means crown. Hashem's crown is not complete without the mitzvos DiRabanan. In the Aseres HaDibros which is the basis for the Taryag Mitzvos we find 620 letters. Below is a list of these seven mitzvos.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---http://www.inner.org/parshah/genesis/noach/KMN-excerpt.php
Torah’s 613 commandments. Indeed, even the earliest commentators on the Torah write that the text of the Ten Commandments alludes to all 613 commandments. The most important allusion to this is that the original Hebrew text of the Ten Commandments (as they appear in Exodus 20:2 thru 20:13) contains exactly 620 letters. 620 is 7 more than 613. According to some Rabbinic authorities, the 7 commandments that complement the 613 commandments given to the Jewish people are the 7 Laws of Bnei Noach, that were given to the first generations of man, beginning with Adam.
620 is the numerical value of the word “crown,” in Hebrew. As such we find that the Jewish people—who carry the responsibility for 613 commandments—together with the righteous gentiles who are responsible for the universal commandments, together adorn the Almighty’s crown of Kingship over the entire world with 620 jewels—the commandments of the Almighty’s words unto man.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---http://www.kabbalaonline.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/1215865/jewish/Divine-Names-Divine-Dimensions.htm
The Ten Commandments consist of 620 letters, corresponding to the Crown [in Hebrew keter, which has a numerical value of 620] of Torah. 613 of these letters represent the 613 commandments of the Torah that are addressed to the Jewish people, whereas the other 7 letters represent the 7 Noahide laws, addressed to all of mankind. It is fairly obvious then that the Ten Commandments more than any other part of the Torah contains the mystical dimension of the Ineffable Name.
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So I guess that you correct to consider them the 7 Mitzvot DiRabbanam, although the concept is more universal when applied to the seven Noachide laws...
See this discussion for more insight:
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol24/v24n103.shtml#03
--- Quote ---http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=285&Parent=166
Mitvoths Bnai Noach that were repeated in the Ten Commandments
The Seven Noachide Laws that were given to Moshe with the Ten Commandments, are enumerated separately from the 613 commandments, and are distinct from them in many fundamental ways and aspects.
...The Baal HaTurim (Shemos 20:13) wrote that the 620 letters of the ten commandments correspond to the 613 Mitvoths and the 7 Mitvoths Bnai Noach, and he asks that behold the 7 Mivoths Bnai Noach, Avodah Zarah and Illicit Relations etc. were already included in the 613 commandments.
The Answer: it would have been possible to offer several explanations for this, however in truth there is really no question/difficulty in the first place since also in the 613 Mitvoths the intention is not 613 various general categories, rather the particular inyanim/matters are also taken into consideration if they contain a particular commandment, for example the laws of Avodah Zarah (idolotry) that contain within them several positive commandments/Mitvoths and negative commandments and each one of them is considered to be part of the enumeration of the 613 Mitvoths (the definitions for this are explained in the Sefer HaMivoths by the Rambam - shoresh 9 - and the commentaries there). And how much the more so with regards to the Seven Mitvoths Bnai Noach that contain specific commandents and with fundamental distinctions from the 613 Mitvoths of the Bnai Israel - that are enumerated independently...
(Kol Baie Olam p. 18. quoting Likutei Sichos 2:670)
--- End quote ---
Tag-MehirTzedek:
--- Quote from: muman613 on November 16, 2011, 03:46:00 PM ---yes they are different... Nobody claimed otherwise...
But the 7 in the 613+7 are the Noachide laws... As several sources I brought also support...
The 'big idea' of this is that Hashems will encompasses both the Jewish 613 commandments and the 7 Noachide laws...
You are the one who suggested that it is the 7 Rabbinic mitzvahs.... That is your interpretation, but it is not the interpretation of the sages...
--- End quote ---
Whattt? The 7 laws of Noah are part of the 613 Mitzwoth that the Jews have to perform. Thus they are included in the count of the 613 (ex- Do not Murder, do not Kidnap, etc. is one of the 613). The 7 "additional" Mitzwoth are Rabbinically sourced and together 613 + 7 Rabbinic Mitzwoth= 620 Mitzwoth (anyway its not exactly like that either, but the 613 +7 serve as "roots" in actuality).
muman613:
--- Quote from: Tag-MahirTzedek on November 16, 2011, 03:54:19 PM --- Whattt? The 7 laws of Noah are part of the 613 Mitzwoth that the Jews have to perform. Thus they are included in the count of the 613 (ex- Do not Murder, do not Kidnap, etc. is one of the 613). The 7 "additional" Mitzwoth are Rabbinically sourced and together 613 + 7 Rabbinic Mitzwoth= 620 Mitzwoth (anyway its not exactly like that either, but the 613 +7 serve as "roots" in actuality).
--- End quote ---
See the answer which I attached to the last post for an Answer to this question... One of the sages who introduced this idea was the Baal HaTurim
Zelhar:
--- Quote from: muman613 on November 16, 2011, 03:46:32 PM ---Yes 620 is EQUAL TO 613 PLUS 7.... There is no other answer to 613+7, is there?
620 is EQUAL to the NUMBER OF LETTERS in the 10 Commandments... This is not debatable...
620 is EQUAL to the Gematria of Keter/Crown.... That is not debatable...
Your trying to inject 'prime numbers' into this has no use in trying to understand the concept...
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and 613=87×7+4, 7=4+3, 4=3+1, so 1=4-3=(613-87×7)-(7-4)=613-87×7-7+4=
=613-88×7+(613-87×7)=2×613-175×7=1
So, for example, 621=621×1=621(2×613-175×7)=1242×613-108675×7
muman613:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on November 16, 2011, 04:36:30 PM ---and 613=87×7+4, 7=4+3, 4=3+1, so 1=4-3=(613-87×7)-(7-4)=613-87×7-7+4=
=613-88×7+(613-87×7)=2×613-175×7=1
So, for example, 621=621×1=621(2×613-175×7)=1242×613-108675×7
--- End quote ---
Once again I fail to understand what you are getting at. Do you think these calculations have anything to do with the fact that 613 + 7 = 620? It is very simple addition... No division, no multiplication, no factors, no prime numbers.
Do you understand the basic addition operator? It is one of the simplest arithmetic operators we know {although subtraction is similar}. There are applications of Gematria which involve multiplication such as the idea that Chai, the numerical value of 18, is a lucky number so people often donate money in multiples of 18, for instance $18, $36, $72, $90, $180, etc...
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