A leter to the Gentile Partner- By Rav Meir Kahane.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Words-Selected-1960-1990-1985-1988/dp/1463689128/ref=pd_sim_b_3#reader_1463689128

 - Scroll down to page 1. Woow. Amazing insight as usual. Its free here (part of his book). And the whole article (which isn't long) is available here.

[Dr. Dan]

Can you copy and paste it here?  Having trouble viewing it.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Can you copy and paste it here?  Having trouble viewing it.

 Not able to. Its part of Amazon where you can view some pages for free (I guess they do it for advertising purposes). Usually its just a few pages, but these few pages contain the whole article and aren't broken up like others are.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Can you copy and paste it here?  Having trouble viewing it.

 Worst comes to worst- you can go to Amazon.com
 and search "Beyond Words: Selected Writings 1960-1990 Vol. 5 1985-1988 (Volume 5) [Paperback]"
 click on "Click to look inside" and scroll to page 1.

[muman613]

Buy the Book... it is only $20.... Tamar Yonah interviewed the man who published these 7 volumes of Rabbi Kahanes work... If people buy the book they will know that it is reaching a receptive audience...

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58444.msg525806.html#msg525806

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Buy the Book... it is only $20.... Tamar Yonah interviewed the man who published these 7 volumes of Rabbi Kahanes work... If people buy the book they will know that it is reaching a receptive audience...

http://jtf.org/forum/index.php/topic,58444.msg525806.html#msg525806

 Yea I got the first 1 for now (bummer it was $25) but ohh well. Looking to get volume 6 next (looked at the titles, seem more interesting).

[Dr. Dan]

Just took a look at it...placed an order for Vol 5.... 

[JTFenthusiast2]

I just read this and for the life of me cannot understand why this man, when he was alive, had such a bad 'rap.'  His letter to the potential Gentile partner comes from  a deeply respectful, kind decent, and pro-Gentile, pro-human perspective.  I have seen so many conversions that are exactly as he describes, totally selfish and without any meaning at all.  I have often thought why does this person think that they have a right to ask another person to change part of who they are to fit into something that the Jewish person doesn't really value anyway.  I've always chalked it up to, "well they are doing it to please the parents" with a passive kind of 'so be it' attitude. But as the Rabbi points out that is entirely wrong, completely selfish and ultimately really a move that is a move in the direction of making future generations "a Jew in name only."

[cjd]

I just read this and for the life of me cannot understand why this man, when he was alive, had such a bad 'rap.'  His letter to the potential Gentile partner comes from  a deeply respectful, kind decent, and pro-Gentile, pro-human perspective.  I have seen so many conversions that are exactly as he describes, totally selfish and without any meaning at all.  I have often thought why does this person think that they have a right to ask another person to change part of who they are to fit into something that the Jewish person doesn't really value anyway.  I've always chalked it up to, "well they are doing it to please the parents" with a passive kind of 'so be it' attitude. But as the Rabbi points out that is entirely wrong, completely selfish and ultimately really a move that is a move in the direction of making future generations "a Jew in name only."

The Rav was well liked by many Gentiles here in New York... The people that gave him the hardest time were assimilated and secular Jews who did not like his religious  positions... They vilified him in the liberal media to the point where it made him look radical to uninformed non Jews.. Even with all that the Rav still had a large following of gentiles that would tune in when he was doing a radio broadcast or attend his public appearances... The Rav was a person who talked sense and gave detailed reasons for why he said what he was saying... The letter this post is about is a prime example of that sort of wisdom and style of communication... I would like to buy the entire  set however I would like to have it in hard cover if such a thing exists.

[Rubystars]

I liked how he mentioned how people should have enough respect for their own roots and traditions to want someone who would also respect and share them. That's what I have talked about a lot on here before although I wasn't only talking about religion but that's part of it.

I do think that's best, but of course there are good people who choose differently.

Christians are supposed to marry within their own faith too. 

[cjd]

I liked how he mentioned how people should have enough respect for their own roots and traditions to want someone who would also respect and share them. That's what I have talked about a lot on here before although I wasn't only talking about religion but that's part of it.

I do think that's best, but of course there are good people who choose differently.

Christians are supposed to marry within their own faith too. 

25 or 30 years ago I would say that people put more stock in sticking with their own kind.. Today younger people for the most part don't have the same mindset... Honestly I believe the horse is out of the barn and the chances of getting it back in are very slim... Today we have the religion of the cell phone, face book and my space all of witch glorify hooking up and meeting up at a moments notice... Sadly for most religion has become a secondary issue.

[Rubystars]

25 or 30 years ago I would say that people put more stock in sticking with their own kind.. Today younger people for the most part don't have the same mindset... Honestly I believe the horse is out of the barn and the chances of getting it back in are very slim... Today we have the religion of the cell phone, face book and my space all of witch glorify hooking up and meeting up at a moments notice... Sadly for most religion has become a secondary issue.

I think it's because people are too individualistic, they don't feel connected to their roots or their traditions. They don't feel they're part of a people, part of nation, part of a religious group, that they are the continuation of their ancestors, that their children are the continuation after them, and they are but a link in the chain.

I don't think very many people are really patriotic in America these days the way they were back during WW1 and WW2. They're happy if a communist Muslim is president as long as their tv still works and they can still go to the grocery store and use their cell phones.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Don't forget the third partner in any human relationship, the iphone

[Yaakov Mendel]

I liked how he mentioned how people should have enough respect for their own roots and traditions to want someone who would also respect and share them. That's what I have talked about a lot on here before although I wasn't only talking about religion but that's part of it.

I do think that's best, but of course there are good people who choose differently.

Christians are supposed to marry within their own faith too. 

The hitch is that, in today's society, a large number of individuals have lost almost all connection to their roots and traditions, let alone all faith, as a result of social change and ideological transformations. The notions of borders, nations, distinct peoples and cultures, have been more and more put aside. Western children are now raised in way that makes them confused about their identity when they grow up. Confused individuals have short-term relationships with other confused individuals, and this results in an extremely low birth rate.

[Rubystars]

The hitch is that, in today's society, a large number of individuals have lost almost all connection to their roots and traditions, let alone all faith, as a result of social change and ideological transformations. The notions of borders, nations, distinct peoples and cultures, have been more and more put aside. Western children are now raised in way that makes them confused about their identity when they grow up. Confused individuals have short-term relationships with other confused individuals, and this results in an extremely low birth rate.

Great points. I think this is at the root of the extreme focus on the individual. Certainly individual rights are important and I think it's great that the Western culture as a whole puts high value on the individual. This is good to a degree but in my opinion has gone too far.

As you pointed out due to social change and ideological transformations people seem to have lost a sense of identity that can only come from being part of a larger whole. Globalization seems to empower the individual but really making everyone the same without any distinct identities or connections to their history or distinct peoples erases what makes us all individuals as well.

Don't forget the third partner in any human relationship, the iphone

lol, so sad but true for so many people!

[Yaakov Mendel]

Globalization seems to empower the individual but really making everyone the same without any distinct identities or connections to their history or distinct peoples erases what makes us all individuals as well.

Globalization is leading us to the nightmare of generalized uniformity where we all become one big shapeless multitude that is easily controllable by big businesses and opinion makers. In this process, peoples tend to lose their culture and their identity, and nations abdicate their sovereignty.

[muman613]

Shalom,

Regarding this concept of the loss of individuality and the phenomenon of commercial societies Rabbi Jonathan Sacks {whom we have stated has some differences of opinions with us} recently spoke before the Queen of England. According to this story in Arutz Shevas website:


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/149901#.TshhELi6bWA

British Chief Rabbi Blasts Steve Jobs as Consumerism 'Moses'

Chief Rabbi Sacks criticizes Apple founder who recently died for helping create a selfish consumer culture.
Gil Ronen
 

Britain's Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks mounted an attack on late Apple founder Steve Jobs this week for helping to create a selfish consumer culture.
Speaking at an interfaith reception attended by Queen Elizabeth II, Rabbi Sacks said: "People are looking for values other than the values of a consumer society. The values of a consumer society really aren’t ones you can live by for terribly long.

According to a report in the Telegraph, he then added that "The consumer society was laid down by the late Steve Jobs coming down the mountain with two tablets, iPad one and iPad two, and the result is that we now have a culture of iPod, iPhone, iTune, i, i, i."
"When you're an individualist, egocentric culture and you only care about 'i’, you don’t do terribly well. What does a consumer ethic do? It makes you aware all the time of the things you don't have instead of thanking G-d for all the things you do have."

"If in a consumer society, through all the advertising and subtly seductive approaches to it, you've got an iPhone but you haven’t got a fourth generation one, the consumer society is in fact the most efficient mechanism ever devised for the creation and distribution of unhappiness."
"Therefore the answer to the consumer society is the world of faith, which the Jews call the world of Shabbat, where you can't shop and you can't spend and you spend your time with things that matter, with family. Unless we get back to these values we will succeed in making our children and grandchildren ever unhappier."

Sacks' criticism of Jobs raised some eyebrows, coming as it did just six weeks after Jobs died in October. However, it is in keeping with his principle of promoting eternal values among the general public as well as in his Jewish constituency.
The rabbi does not hesitate to criticize Israel either. He has spoken out about the problems Israel faces in the territories liberated in 1967. In an interview for the Guardian, he said regarding the Jewish presence in Judea, Samaria and Gaza that "there are things that happen on a daily basis which make me feel very uncomfortable as a Jew. I regard the current situation as nothing less than tragic," he said, "because it is forcing Israel into postures that are incompatible in the long-run with our deepest ideals."

Rabbi Sacks, a noted Torah scholar and intellectual, writes a weekly Torah portion essay which is posted in Arutz Sheva's Judaism section.

This song by Describe also expresses this ideal:

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Muman, why do you keep worshpping Kspos such as Jonathan Sucks?

[muman613]

Muman, why do you keep worshpping Kspos such as Jonathan Sucks?

Huh? I am not 'worshipping' Sacks... I think it is good that he spoke up about this though. As much as I love technology {it is my livelyhood} I also have always known it has negative influences on people. When I was going to college I almost decided not to go into computer science because the technology can be used for evil.

I just found it interesting that he spoke out about this, Arutz Sheva published the story, and I happened to read it... Nothing much more than that. I'm sorry if you find it inappropriate. The article was not hiding the fact that the Rabbi has said controversial things about the settlers. I certainly think he is wrong on many things... I pointed out many times what I found offensive about some of his positions...

It must be admitted that this man has a lot of influence in high places. His opinion should be considered. I do not 'honor' or 'worship' him. I just accept that he is a well known Rabbi in a high place..

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

This piece of garbage supports an Arab Nazi state and pressured Israel to ethnically cleanse Judea and Samaria from Jews and you call that "differenes of opinion"?

[muman613]

This piece of garbage supports an Arab Nazi state and pressured Israel to ethnically cleanse Judea and Samaria from Jews and you call that "differenes of opinion"?

It is impossible to ignore him, and being antagonistic against him in an angry manner will not change peoples opinions. As I related in a previous post about this Rabbi, whom one of my Rabbis holds in high esteem. I pointed out to him some of his positions in a kind and caring manner and did not get angry at my Rabbi.

I do not believe that Rabbi Sacks is evil. His opinion is wrong, and I can say that, but he is still a Jew and I respect that. I know Jews who hold a wide variety of opinions and I do not immediately hate them because they have opinions which I may consider to be contrary to the idea of a strong Jewish state. I try to change peoples opinions in a way which is more subtle, and i believe more persuasive.

I understand your questioning my methods.... But trust me that I only support policies which will ensure a strong Jewish presence throughout the entire land of Israel. There should be no question about that. Anyone who has talked to me over the Shabbat table will know that I do not retreat from this position. And I will never cease supporting the ideas which Rabbi Kahane proposed in his many writings.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Trust me its possible to ignore R sacks, I do it all the time.  I knew some british Jews who made aliyah and they used to have a laugh about him how he is always licking the queen's boots and saying whatever she wants to hear.   In any case, pertaining to the article, I would ask him, he says people are looking for values other than consumerism.  But if that were true, jobs and his products would never have been so popular and he wouldn't have to give a speech bashing him.  A lot of people are consumer-drones.

[Rubystars]

I like that there are different products people can enjoy but it's when you care more about having the latest Iphone than valuing your family, friends, and people and when you live outside your means that it becomes a big problem.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Trust me its possible to ignore R sacks, I do it all the time.  I knew some british Jews who made aliyah and they used to have a laugh about him how he is always licking the queen's boots and saying whatever she wants to hear. 

 They realize that he is a puppet rabbi. He works for and with the British government. Its like it was in Russia back in the day. Their was the "official" rabbi who would answer to the russian rulers. And their were Real Rabbis who the people would follow.